BIAB Questions

[borovy3488]

OK, I bought the ingredients for my first BIAB and I am having trouble with the calculations. I should have done all this first.

I didn't even think about the pot size before buying the bag and ingredients (dumb, i know). I'm planning on brewing BM's Centennial Blonde, so I have 8.75 lbs of grain. My turkey fryer set us is advertised as 35 quarts, so about 8.75 gallons.

Here's the problem. How much water do I need in the pot to start with to end up with 5-5.5 gallons of beer? I ran the calculator here, and it says 7.88 gallons of mash water. Is this after adding the grain? If not, how many gallons will it get to after adding the grain?

Sorry for so many questions, but I am pretty confused here.

Here's the settings I used on that calculator:

Ingredient Amounts

Amount of grain (lb) - 8.75 lbs
Amount of hops (oz) - 1 oz

Boil Information

Boil duration (min) - 60 min
Boil off rate (gal/hr) - .75 gal/hr

Volumes

Volume of finished beer (gal) - 5.5 gal
Volume lost to fermentation trub (gal) - .5 gal

Miscellaneous

Diameter of kettle (in) - 11.75 in
Mash temperature (F) - 150 F
Grain temperature (F) - 70 F

 

[tjpfeister]

I think the "average" number is something around .2 gallons per pound of grain. So you can plan on losing around 1.5 gallons. Assuming around 1 gallon of boil off, that puts you at 8 gallons of initial water if going for the "full volume mash." (3.66 qrts/pound)

I have been tinkering with BIAB lately myself, and find that I'm losing about a gallon to 6 pounds of grain. I try to slightly undershoot my pre-boil volume and then rinse the grains (pseudo-sparge) up to my desired pre-boil volume. This ensures correct wort volume and aids in efficiency.

 

[enkamania]

I just did a batch with 13.5 lbs of grain and used 8 gallons, so that should be plenty of water

 

[borovy3488]

Here's my concern. 7.88 gallons of water heated to 150 F per recipe. Add grains at .2 gal per pound of grain, you get 9.63 gallons. My pot is only 8.75 gallons max. Does the calculator give me the total amount of water with or without grain?

If I do 7 gallons of water, add the grains, that gets me to 8.4 gallons total. If I let that mash for 60 minutes, remove the grain and boil for 60 mins, it should get me close to 5 gallons. Am I right?

 

[enkamania]

Sounds like a good plan

 

[tjpfeister]

You misunderstood my statement. The grain absorbs .2 gallons per pound. With exactly 8 gallons your loss due to grain removal, then loss due to boil would result in your goal of 5.5 gallons. However, your concern over the volume of the grain PLUS 8 gallons of water is a very good one. The grain plus the water would need 10.5 (roughly) gallons of space to live in. So that is not happening. I propose this:

Mash with 28 quarts of water at 155F (assuming grains to be 70F) This will require 30.7 quarts of space
Removing the grains should result in approximately 6 gallons (16 quarts) of wort.
Sparge the grain bag with about .5 gallons (2 quarts) of 170F water.

This should result in approximately 6.5 gallons of wort, which will boil down to about 5.5

EDIT : Sorry, had some IIPA with dinner and the math got mixed up. Editted to fix errors. All values given are in "abouts"

 

[borovy3488]

I see what you're saying now. So if I mash with 7 gallons (28 quarts), requiring 7.7 gallons (30.7 quarts), it will yield 6 gallons (24 quarts) after the mash? Sparge with .5 gallons to reach 6.5 and boil away.

I understand the concept, but the math is still a little fuzzy to me. If the grain absorbs .2 gallons per pound, wouldn't that leave me with 5.25 gallons after removal? Then I would have to sparge 1.25 to reach the needed 6.5 gallons to boil? Also, how do you calculate the needed space after adding grains?

I'm sorry for all of the questions, I just want to make sure my brew day goes smoothly. It's my first all grain!

 

[tre9er]

Use software or calculations. My BIAB Brees don't absorb nearly as much water to grain as most, half. Ymmv

 

[Rifester]

BIAB Water Volume Calculator
Total Grain (lb) 8.75 lb <---- User Entered Values
Grain Absorption (gal/lb) 0.037 gal/lb <---- User Entered Values
Boil Time (hr) 1 hr <---- User Entered Values
Boil Off Rate (gal/hr) 1 gal/hr <---- User Entered Values
Final Volume (gal) 5.5 gal <---- User Entered Values
Trub Loss (gal) 0.5 gal <---- User Entered Values
Equipment Loss (gal) 0.5 gal <---- User Entered Values
Cooling Loss (gal) 0 gal <---- User Entered Values
Grain Absorption (gal) 0.32375 gal <---- Calculated Values (B3*B4)
Boil Off (gal) 1 gal <---- Calculated Values (B5*B6)

Total Strike Water Volume 7.82375 gal <---- Calculated Values (SUM B7:B12)

 

[borovy3488]

Use software or calculations. My BIAB Brees don't absorb nearly as much water to grain as most, half. Ymmv

I tried that, but I'm not really understanding what the calculators are saying. Also, my pot size is limited and I don't know if sparging is necessary as well as how much.

If there is a calculator for this, please let me know and I will use it because I'm starting to freak out a little bit, haha!

 

[Rifester]

http://beerreviewdude.com/biab-calculator/

Here is a simple calculator...

 

[bullinachinashop]

You can mash with less water. I will mash with as little as 1 qt/lbs. in order to fit into a pot.
Heat the make up water in a seperate pot to sparge with.
Move bagged grains to bottling bucket.
Sparge to preboil volume.
Easy Peasy!
By the way, I average 1/10 gal/ lbs absortsion
Good luck,
Bull

 

[borovy3488]

You can mash with less water. I will mash with as little as 1 qt/lbs. in order to fit into a pot.
Heat the make up water in a seperate pot to sparge with.
Move bagged grains to bottling bucket.
Sparge to preboil volume.
Easy Peasy!
By the way, I average 1/10 gal/ lbs absortsion
Good luck,
Bull

I like what I hear here. If I mash with say, 7 gallons, with my grain absorbtion at .2 gal/pound, it will leave me with 5.25 gallons. Then sparge 1.25 gallons, it should leave me with a final boil volume of 6.5 gallons. Is this math correct?

Also, how do you measure the volume needed for the grains? I understand the .2 gal/pound, but is it the same inversely correct for the addition? Like will the water rise .2gal/pound when the grain is added?

Again, sorry for all of the questions.

 

[Number2]

I see what you're saying now. So if I mash with 7 gallons (28 quarts), requiring 7.7 gallons (30.7 quarts), it will yield 6 gallons (24 quarts) after the mash? Sparge with .5 gallons to reach 6.5 and boil away.

I understand the concept, but the math is still a little fuzzy to me. If the grain absorbs .2 gallons per pound, wouldn't that leave me with 5.25 gallons after removal? Then I would have to sparge 1.25 to reach the needed 6.5 gallons to boil? Also, how do you calculate the needed space after adding grains?

I'm sorry for all of the questions, I just want to make sure my brew day goes smoothly. It's my first all grain!

Scroll down to the "Can I Mash it" portion.
http://rackers.org/calcs.shtml/

I am no awesome brewer but I try not to overthink this (it hurts).

Before you start get a stick or a racking cane and mark where your desired boil volume is on it by using a measured amount of water in your kettle.

Figure out if your grains will fit with the water that you plan to use using the calculator I linked to.

Mash away. Lift the bag out after mashing and let it drain into the kettle for a bit. Then squeeze the bag into another container and add that back into your kettle, top off with water to reach the mark you made on your racking cane (or whatever measuring device you used). Boil away. I don't sparge so I can not help you there.

You are going to be just fine based on my vastly superior and expert opinion though.

 

[bullinachinashop]

BeerSmith calculates mash tun volume required. There are other free calculators if you search them out.

I typically mash at 1.25 qt/lbs and then sparge to volume. I target 75%. +/-

So for your grain bill, I'd start with 11 qts of water for the mash. then follow the process I previously described.

You'll loose a little less than 1 gal to absortion.

So, 6.5 gal(preboil volume) - 2 gal ( first amount - absortion) = 4.5 gal sparge needed

These are aprox. numbers, but should get you close.
Bull

 

[tre9er]

bottom line, figure out YOUR system and adjust as needed...

 

[borovy3488]

BeerSmith calculates mash tun volume required. There are other free calculators if you search them out.

I typically mash at 1.25 qt/lbs and then sparge to volume. I target 75%. +/-

So for your grain bill, I'd start with 11 qts of water for the mash. then follow the process I previously described.

You'll loose a little less than 1 gal to absortion.

So, 6.5 gal(preboil volume) - 2 gal ( first amount - absortion) = 4.5 gal sparge needed

These are aprox. numbers, but should get you close.
Bull

I understand completely now. Thank you for all of your help. I think my brew day will go very smoothly now.

bottom line, figure out YOUR system and adjust as needed...

Posts like this help none. I understand that it takes a few times to figure out your system. Going into a brew without any understanding of how it will go just to figure out the process is something that I wouldn't do.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Simply put, go ahead and do your mash, remove the bag and then figure or guestimate how much additional sparge water is required to make your preboil volume. With your pot at 8.75 gal., you should be very close to being able to do a full volume mash if you max out the kettle, but go ahead and dunk sparge if it gives you comfort.

Once you have done it, it will be very simple...basicly you will collect until your pot is at about 7 gal and boil down to say 5.5 easy peasy,

 

[BOBTHEukBREWER]

Lift the bag out after the mash and suspend it above the pot. Keep recycling liquor from the pot to the top of the bag until it runs clear. Then add water at 90 deg C slowly to the top of the bag and wait till you have the desired volume plus 1 gallon, add hops and boil for 45 minutes, adjusting bittering hop quantities accordingly. What could be simpler?

 

[Number2]

Let us know how it goes.

 

[tre9er]

Posts like this help none. I understand that it takes a few times to figure out your system. Going into a brew without any understanding of how it will go just to figure out the process is something that I wouldn't do.

I think you misunderstood me. My point wasn't to be unprepared in the name of learning. It was that YMMV so eventually you will find out what your system needs and it may not be the standard calculations. Have a plan, then adjust it as needed. RDWHAHB

 

[tjpfeister]

Scroll down to the "Can I Mash it" portion.
http://rackers.org/calcs.shtml/

LoL, that is my club's website. I always forget that it exists

 

[borovy3488]

Brew turned out great! Nailed the 1.040 from the recipe perfectly. I took a few pictures and will make a post with my notes and whatnot probably tomorrow. In short, the methods listed above work great. I mashed 6.5 gallons for an hour. Then poured enough water to reach my desired 6.5 gallons for boiling over the grains, dunked the bag a few times, and squeezed it to get the excess water. Poured enough in to reach the pre-boil volume and it went off without a hitch!

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Rifester]

Congrats on your first BIAB!

 

[captainL]

Just to chime in....I brewed BM centennial blonde in december via BIAB. I used about 7.8 gallons of water. I ended up with right at 5.5 gallons into the fermentor. Evaporation rates can vary but I used 1.2 gallon per hour. For the small grain bill....about .15 gallon per lbs....so about another 1.2 gallons. So 5.5 +1.2+1.2 =7.9 gallons.

I would mash with as much water as you can fit in there. Then pull the grain out and either rinse the grain in the remainder water in another bag. Or just set the grain on a rack (grill rack or something) above the kettle and pour the remaining water over the grains over the kettle. Heat to 170 for the remaining water if you can.


And congrats on the first BIAB.

 

[borovy3488]

Here's the run down of my brew day from the notes I took. I'll post the tree pictures I took as well.

First I cleaned everything. Then I added 6.5 gallons of water to my turkey fryer pot. I put that on the burner and started it up. For some reason I could only get a yellow flame today. Not sure why. I then added the empty grain bag and secured it with a couple of binder clips.

Anyway, I heated it up to 170F. Too hot. Killed the flame, and added the grain somewhat quickly while stirring. I just kept stirring it until it got down to 150F (with 48:45 left in the mash), then took it off the stand and put it on a blanket and wrapped it up in two others. While it was sitting, I finished sanitizing all of the equipment I needed with Iodophor. Then I heated up some water to 180F. It held 150F for the rest of the time and it was 25 degrees outside! :rockin:

I removed the grain bag and let it drain out over the pot. Once it was mostly done, I moved the bag to a strainer over a different bucket I have. Then I poured the water over the grain bag in the strainer. I took the bag out of the strainer and dunked it in the water below a few times, then squeezed the life out of it.

I had marked the desired boil volume on my stirrer, so I just added enough of the water to the pot to reach that volume. Then it was off to the regular boil as per the recipe. I added in irish moss with 15 minutes left.

A few extra funny notes I made:
I singed a couple of hairs on my arm after lighting the burner. Next time I'll use a longer lighter instead of rushing.
I HATE the safety button on my turkey fryer burner. It turned off my flame twice through the boil because I forgot to press it. Any idea how to disable this stupid thing?
I used a hop bag for all of the hops, but added the irish moss straight in. I could see a few black specks floating up. Is this ok? I thought it was supposed to dissolve?
Using an ice bath just blows. Good thing I bought the parts for an immersion chiller build after the brew...:rockin:

Brew Day Music: The Pogues, The Very Best Of...
OG: 1.040. PERFECTO!

Like I said before, I could only get a yellow flame from my burner today. Any idea how to fix this? It used to burn blue, but not anymore. Now the bottom of my pot is completely black. I adjusted the air intake to both extremes and got almost no change.

Here's a couple of pics...

 

[bullinachinashop]

It's official. You're hooked!
Sounds like everything went great!

Congrats
Bull

 

[RM-MN]

Your yellow flame means you're not getting enough oxygen to the flame. Check the adjuster where the gas line hooks to the fryer and if that is wide open, check the tube from there to the burner for an obstruction like a bug or spider web. It only takes a little to screw up the air mixture and that yellow flame isn't as hot as the blue flame so you have to use more propane to get to boil.

 

[borovy3488]

Your yellow flame means you're not getting enough oxygen to the flame. Check the adjuster where the gas line hooks to the fryer and if that is wide open, check the tube from there to the burner for an obstruction like a bug or spider web. It only takes a little to screw up the air mixture and that yellow flame isn't as hot as the blue flame so you have to use more propane to get to boil.

The tube is clear and the adjuster is wide open. Anything else it could be?

The beer is bubbling away as we speak!!