BIAB Process Tweaks

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TheMadKing

Western Yankee Southerner and Brew Science Nerd
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Hi guys, so I've been tweaking my modified BIAB process a bit after reading up on a lot of threads and listening to you more experienced folks. I was hoping I could get a little feedback on my overall process and see if there's anything glaring that y'all think I could improve upon. I'm new to BIAB (and I realize my method isn't standard BIAB, I use the cooler to maintain mash temps and it seems to work pretty well) so be gentle. I appreciate any feedback I receive. Thank you!

Pre-Brewing Procedure
1. Build/Find a Recipe
2. Buy Ingredients and water treatment (if needed)
3. Use a brew calculator(s) to estimate OG, FG, gallons of water needed, yeast pitch rate, mineral additions to water, mash temp, strike water temp, sparge water temp
(optional, if sparging)
4. 24-36 hours before brewing, make a starter of the correct size (use Mr. Yeasty calculator) and store it at the same temperature that the beer will ferment at

Brew Day
1. Sanitize equipment: fermenter, transfer tubing, hydrometer, hydrometer tube, funnels, strainers, anything else that will contact cool wort and set it on a clean surface to dry
2. Add mineral salts for Pullman water: calculated amounts of CaCl, and CaSO, and 1/5 of a Campden tablet (crush and dissolve tablet into a known quantity of water and pour in
1/5 of liquid) and boil brew water+2 extra gallons for 15 minutes to reduce carbonates
3. Install grain bag in mash cooler
4. Siphon or decant boiled water into mash tun before it cools and dump the last 2 gallons in the brew pot, these contain precipitated carbonates
5. Rinse the brew pot
6. Return ¼ of the water to the brew pot and allow it to cool
7. Allow water to cool in mash tun to strike water temp, add ice to speed this process
8. Put ~2 gallons of extra water on to boil in a separate pot in case mash needs to be heated
9. Dough in grain and stir inside bag to ensure no hot/cold spots
10. Dial in temperature to mash temp using ice or hot water from step 8
11. Measure pH of room temperature mash, it must be between 5.2 and 5.4. If it is high, add lactic acid or sauermalz, stir and wait 20 minutes to lower pH to proper range. Add
CaO (lime) if the pH is too low (highly unlikely with Pullman water)
12. Put the lid on the cooler and check temp every 15 minutes and stir to ensure even conversion
13. Mash for 60-90 minutes, conversion can be checked by putting 2 drops of iodine in a few mL of wort. It will turn black if conversion is not complete, and turn brown or red if
complete
14. Raise grain out of water and rinse with the cooled and treated water remaining in the brew pot.
15. Squeeze the bag like it owes you money
16. Measure your pre-boil specific gravity
17. Transfer the wort back to the brew pot and bring up to a boil
18. Boil for 60 minutes with hop additions as prescribed in the recipe
19. 15 minutes before the boil ends, place the wort chiller in the boiling pot to sanitize it
20. At the end of the boil begin running water through the wort chiller and cool the wort until its temp is ~65F
21. Transfer wort to fermenter and top-up the water with bottled water or boiled tap water to reach 5 gallons if necessary
22. Measure the OG
23. Pitch the yeast from the starter
24. Place fermenter in 6-8 inches of cool water in the bath tub with a wet t-shirt over it and a fan blowing on it. This should maintain the temperature between 10-20 degrees
below ambient temperature
25. Behold…. Beeeeeer
 
Seems alright, I would skip the part about heating and chilling the strike water as that's adding time that I just don't see the point of.
 
My water is high in carbonate content and I'm in a rural area where there's not easy access to cheap ro water, so Im doing that to precipitate carbonates and get my ph down
 
My water is high in carbonate content and I'm in a rural area where there's not easy access to cheap ro water, so Im doing that to precipitate carbonates and get my ph down

Gotcha, makes sense then. I don't really worry about water atm as we have pretty good water for brewing.
 
Yep, I've got that calculator, and got some advice from Aj, and the general consensus was that I have too much carbonate and that will buffer more than a simple acid addition will help (I'm at ~300ppm) so the advice was: better to just remove them, or use RO water and adjust the pH from there
 
There's no bottled spring or distilled water in your area?? I don't live in a very urban area but I can get gallon bottles of spring water for $1.19. Don't let the Pittsburgh location fool you. It's just the nearest big city.
 
I can get it in 5 gallon culligans for about $11.50/jug. It's the jug exchange system, so when i use them i just bring them back and grab a new one, which is convenient, but I don't relish the idea of adding an extra $25 to every batch of I can just take an extra 45 minutes to boil and cool my tap water first.
 
Seems like a lot of work and expense and time for the water. No RO water anywhere near you? Walmart sells it. They are pretty much everywhere I thought.

Sanitizing step 1 why.

Brewday I put two gallons of starsan into the FV at some point during the mash or boil. Prior to putting the wort into the FV, empty the starsan out into a container with airlock and aeration wand.

Put cooled wort into FV

Why are you sanitizing hydrometer test jar etc. This is a good way to add needless work and break a hydrometer. It never touches cool wort. Take the samples hot and cool them before you measure the gravity.

I make starters the Monday before a weekend brew. 2 days on a stir plate, 3-4 days chill in fridge, decant off the foul starter wort and pitch the yeast on brew day. Make the starter at room temp regardless of the type of beer being made. Ale or lager, doesn't matter. Room temp for starters.

With BIAB it is more typical to mash in the boil kettle. Your setup is three vessel with a bag as a manifold. It will work but will negate the simplicity of BIAB to an extent.

A planned top up of water at the end will have a drastic hit to your efficiency. If your pot can hold it, all the water with all grain process would better serve being added at the strike and a sparge if you do one. Top up can be done but I would not plan one unless the pot size necessitates it.

Over all you clearly have a well thought out plan. Just seems like it is needlessly complex in a few areas to me.
 
Seems like a lot of work and expense and time for the water. No RO water anywhere near you? Walmart sells it. They are pretty much everywhere I thought.

Sanitizing step 1 why.

Brewday I put two gallons of starsan into the FV at some point during the mash or boil. Prior to putting the wort into the FV, empty the starsan out into a container with airlock and aeration wand.

Put cooled wort into FV

Why are you sanitizing hydrometer test jar etc. This is a good way to add needless work and break a hydrometer. It never touches cool wort. Take the samples hot and cool them before you measure the gravity.

I make starters the Monday before a weekend brew. 2 days on a stir plate, 3-4 days chill in fridge, decant off the foul starter wort and pitch the yeast on brew day. Make the starter at room temp regardless of the type of beer being made. Ale or lager, doesn't matter. Room temp for starters.

With BIAB it is more typical to mash in the boil kettle. Your setup is three vessel with a bag as a manifold. It will work but will negate the simplicity of BIAB to an extent.

A planned top up of water at the end will have a drastic hit to your efficiency. If your pot can hold it, all the water with all grain process would better serve being added at the strike and a sparge if you do one. Top up can be done but I would not plan one unless the pot size necessitates it.

Over all you clearly have a well thought out plan. Just seems like it is needlessly complex in a few areas to me.

WalMart here does the culligan exchange, they don't produce their own RO water and its $11.50 for 5 gallons. The only other option is Wince and their RO machine was last serviced in 2013, so its pretty much tap water.

Sanitizing like a maniac out of habit and paranoia, but I see your point and will save myself the effort!
 
Well I tested the process out adopting a number of tweaks from you guys. It went fairly smoothly despite a leaking brew pot spigot that I fixed, and an unknown boil off rate (first use of the new pot).

One problem though, my mash efficiency was very low, (low 60% range). I used the gravity measured preboil to calculate it with a brewers friend calculator.

I feel like a rinse or a dunk sparge might help this since I can't use a pulley and squeeze as hard as I'd like to. Any tips on boosting that?

Ended up with an OG of only 1.050 instead of the intended 1.068 because of that, and too much volume from the unknown boil off rate.
 
Ahhh.. I bet you're right, I used the crusher at my LHBS which they don't allow adjustment on. I may have to switch to a sparge until I can buy my own mill. Them things ain't cheap!

Look at Wilserbrews signature.

He outlines a great cheap corona-mill build. Is under $35 cheap? Relative term I guess so I'll let you decide.

I use a $99 mill (cereal killer)

Crush fine, squeeze or drain (if you can), big pot 2x your batch size and your good to go.

To better control your volumes check out @Pricelessbrewing 's Calculator designed by a BIABer. very accurate indeed

Get your sugar extraction consistently and predictably better, nail your volumes and BIAB will get you the beer you intended to make, not the one dictated by your sytems' inaccuracies.

Have fun going forward
 
Look at Wilserbrews signature.

He outlines a great cheap corona-mill build. Is under $35 cheap? Relative term I guess so I'll let you decide.

I use a $99 mill (cereal killer)

Crush fine, squeeze or drain (if you can), big pot 2x your batch size and your good to go.

To better control your volumes check out @Pricelessbrewing 's Calculator designed by a BIABer. very accurate indeed

Get your sugar extraction consistently and predictably better, nail your volumes and BIAB will get you the beer you intended to make, not the one dictated by your sytems' inaccuracies.

Have fun going forward

Great stuff, thank you!
 
I'm with gavin and wilser. If you're having issues with your mash effeciency being that low, it's almost certainly your crush. The other possibility being poor water chemistry. Have you checked your mash ph?
 
I'm with gavin and wilser. If you're having issues with your mash effeciency being that low, it's almost certainly your crush. The other possibility being poor water chemistry. Have you checked your mash ph?

Yep, I checked with strips which aren't terribly accurate but I was getting between 4.8 and 5. Strips usually read about 0.3 low so I think my pH was good. I boiled my water before mashing and precipitated a large amount of carbonate. I added 3 tsp of CaCl and 1 tsp of CaSO4 and 1/5 of a campden tablet before boil and calculated ending up with 103ppm Ca and 130ppm S.

It could be the issue though. A good pH meter is high on the list of equipment to buy.
 
Mash pH

I think this is definitely overlooked too often with BIAB. Full volume no-sparge methods like I use result in mash pH too high with lighter colored grain bills.

(With my water of course)

I correct by tweaking the recipe with some carefully calculated addiditions of acid malt using Bru'n Water. Acid (lactic acid) is also effective and some would argue more accurate.

There are other benefits to acid malt though.

Again with BIAB and thinner mashes the amounts needed are a little different than in a conventional mash with a targeted water to grain ratio of less than half I use. More acid needed for a bgreater mash volume.

Tackling water chemistry and pH requires knowing what's in the water and having an effective pH meter, well calibrated. Without these you are just as likely to do more harm than good to an already good beer.

Edit: The folks in the know on HBT over in the brew science forum advise against pH strips. Worthless by all acounts. I've never used them but have benefited from the good advice I got in that sub forum. I don't doubt them when it comes to this sort of thing.
 
Mash pH

I think this is definitely overlooked too often with BIAB. Full volume no-sparge methods like I use result in mash pH too high with lighter colored grain bills.

(With my water of course)

I correct by tweaking the recipe with some carefully calculated addiditions of acid malt using Bru'n Water. Acid (lactic acid) is also effective and some would argue more accurate.

There are other benefits to acid malt though.

Again with BIAB and thinner mashes the amounts needed are a little different than in a conventional mash with a targeted water to grain ratio of less than half I use. More acid needed for a bgreater mash volume.

Tackling water chemistry and pH requires knowing what's in the water and having an effective pH meter, well calibrated. Without these you are just as likely to do more harm than good to an already good beer.

Edit: The folks in the know on HBT over in the brew science forum advise against pH strips. Worthless by all acounts. I've never used them but have benefited from the good advice I got in that sub forum. I don't doubt them when it comes to this sort of thing.

I was over there a few days ago and chatted with ajdelange about my water profile. My mineral additions were in accordance with his recommendations and I talked to the local brewpub and he gave me their process for water treatment as well.
 
I was over there a few days ago and chatted with ajdelange about my water profile. My mineral additions were in accordance with his recommendations and I talked to the local brewpub and he gave me their process for water treatment as well.


Your planning sounds great. AJdelange is the guru of whom I spoke. You'll likely not go far wrong following his advice.
 
Your planning sounds great. AJdelange is the guru of whom I spoke. You'll likely not go far wrong following his advice.

I just love it when a plan comes together :)

We'll see in about 3 weeks. If it's decent beer I'll be happy and then go on to worrying about correcting my efficiency and volume.
 
Me too

hannibal-a-team.jpg
 
Well I tested the process out adopting a number of tweaks from you guys. It went fairly smoothly despite a leaking brew pot spigot that I fixed, and an unknown boil off rate (first use of the new pot).

One problem though, my mash efficiency was very low, (low 60% range). I used the gravity measured preboil to calculate it with a brewers friend calculator.

I feel like a rinse or a dunk sparge might help this since I can't use a pulley and squeeze as hard as I'd like to. Any tips on boosting that?

Ended up with an OG of only 1.050 instead of the intended 1.068 because of that, and too much volume from the unknown boil off rate.

There are two components to mash efficiency: the conversion efficiency (actual sugar created by starch conversion / max potential sugar in the grain) and the lauter efficiency (amount of sugar in BK / actual sugar in mash.).
Mash-efficiency = Conversion_efficiency * Lauter_efficiency​
The lauter efficiency is affected by squeezing and sparging (so less of the sugar remains in the spent grain.) Conversion efficiency is affected by grain particle size, time, temp, pH, agitation, and maybe a few other parameters.

When BIAB efficiencies are in the low 60's, there is usually a problem with conversion efficiency (incomplete starch conversion.) Hot water sparging may help a little with conversion efficiency, as the extra time and agitation will provide additional conversion. However, it is more effective to increase the conversion percentage in the original mash. Crush size and mash time interact. Smaller grain particles convert faster than larger grain particles due to diffusion effects. So, you can either reduce your crush size, as others have suggested, or increase your mash time to allow more complete conversion.

It is possible to measure your conversion efficiency (degree of completeness) from your strike water volume, grain bill, and mash wort SG. I walk thru an example of how to do that in a post here.

Brew on :mug:
 
There are two components to mash efficiency: the conversion efficiency (actual sugar created by starch conversion / max potential sugar in the grain) and the lauter efficiency (amount of sugar in BK / actual sugar in mash.).
Mash-efficiency = Conversion_efficiency * Lauter_efficiency​
The lauter efficiency is affected by squeezing and sparging (so less of the sugar remains in the spent grain.) Conversion efficiency is affected by grain particle size, time, temp, pH, agitation, and maybe a few other parameters.

When BIAB efficiencies are in the low 60's, there is usually a problem with conversion efficiency (incomplete starch conversion.) Hot water sparging may help a little with conversion efficiency, as the extra time and agitation will provide additional conversion. However, it is more effective to increase the conversion percentage in the original mash. Crush size and mash time interact. Smaller grain particles convert faster than larger grain particles due to diffusion effects. So, you can either reduce your crush size, as others have suggested, or increase your mash time to allow more complete conversion.

It is possible to measure your conversion efficiency (degree of completeness) from your strike water volume, grain bill, and mash wort SG. I walk thru an example of how to do that in a post here.

Brew on :mug:

Really helpful, thank you!

I tested conversion with iodine and it didn't turn black, so I assumed that meant that conversion was complete.

But really, that just means that the sugars in solution are fully converted and doesn't actually tell me anything useful about the sugars remaining in the grain?
 
Really helpful, thank you!

I tested conversion with iodine and it didn't turn black, so I assumed that meant that conversion was complete.

But really, that just means that the sugars in solution are fully converted and doesn't actually tell me anything useful about the sugars remaining in the grain?

Correct. To test conversion of the grain, you need to crush up a sample of the mashed grain in a mortar & pestle, and do an iodine test on that sample.

Brew on :mug:
 
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