BIAB; Can use a second pot if I don't have a huge brewpot?

[kevreh]

I've been reading through various threads and am frankly getting overwhelmed with all the different approaches and variations people use.

Basically, if (?) my brewpot (8 gal) can't fit a full volume of water (~7 gals) and ~10lbs of grain (still deciding on a recipe), then can I do the following;

- Put something like 5 gallons in the main pot. Perform the mash.
- Heat a 2nd pot up with the additional 2 gallons and bring to mashout temp of about 170 (or whatever its supposed to be).
- Drain bag with grains into main pot, then drop into 2nd pot for a 10 minute mashout. Drain bag again.
- Combine pots and boil.

I'm sure someone else has asked about this but just haven't seen it yet.

Thanks,
Kevin

 

[Nikeirons]

I'm wondering the same thing. I thought I read on here you can mash 5 gallons water and save the other 2.5 gallons for a dunk sparge. Then combine and do your boil.
Maybe someone more experienced will chime in

 

[pistachio]

Yes you can, I personally think it works better that way than trying to raise the pot temp. That's exactly the same thing you would be doing of you were using a mash tun

 

[reverendj1]

That's how DeathBrewer describes it in his Easy Stovetop All-Grain Brewing thread.

 

[kevreh]

I'm wondering the same thing. I thought I read on here you can mash 5 gallons water and save the other 2.5 gallons for a dunk sparge. Then combine and do your boil.
Maybe someone more experienced will chime in

Ahh, dunk sparge. That sounds better than the way I tried to explain.

 

[kevreh]

That's how DeathBrewer describes it in his Easy Stovetop All-Grain Brewing thread.

Thanks for the link.....yep, thats what I was thinking. I may have seen that thread some time ago when lurking.

 

[inhousebrew]

That is a totally acceptable way of doing things and some people seem to thing you get better efficiency from a dunk sparge although others disagree. But that's not the point and I'll tell you why I stopped doing the dunk sparge method. I stopped mostly because it's a PITA. It's heavy and annoying to lift and messy when transporting. I like BIAB because it is simple which is why I do full volume mashes.

My suggestion, which I know doesn't work for everyone, is to either get a bigger pot to do full volume mashes or to do smaller batches. Just my 2cents based on some messy dunk sparges.

If you're concerned about fitting stuff in the pot this is a good calculator. Just scroll down to the can I mash it one.
http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

 

[kevreh]

I'll do the dunk sparge thing my first BIAB, then buy a bigger pot if I like the BIAB thing. I used to do all grain, then went back to extract to simplify and save time. I realize BIAB will take longer than extract, but the ease of mashing and handling the grains is making me want to take another stab at all grain.

Nice calc, thanks for that.

I also thought about doing a 3.5 gal batch too. Worth a try.

 

[divrguy]

I've been reading through various threads and am frankly getting overwhelmed with all the different approaches and variations people use.

Basically, if (?) my brewpot (8 gal) can't fit a full volume of water (~7 gals) and ~10lbs of grain (still deciding on a recipe), then can I do the following;

- Put something like 5 gallons in the main pot. Perform the mash.
- Heat a 2nd pot up with the additional 2 gallons and bring to mashout temp of about 170 (or whatever its supposed to be).
- Drain bag with grains into main pot, then drop into 2nd pot for a 10 minute mashout. Drain bag again.
- Combine pots and boil.

I'm sure someone else has asked about this but just haven't seen it yet.

Thanks,
Kevin

Make it easy on yourself. I have an 8 gallon pot myself and I do BIAB now at least half of the time. If you scale down a big batch slightly, it fits.

In other words, a nice IPA at 4 gallons fits into my 8 gallon pot using traditional full boil, full water method. I found it easier to just slightly scale it down.

In an average gravity 1.045-1.050 beer at 5 gallons, I can fit it into my 8 gallon pot barely. It just fits. Don't forget, It only has to fit, not boil. Once you pull your grain, your boil goes as normal and you will have plenty of space in the pot to finish your brew.

Btw, all of your list above works as well.

 

[kevreh]

Good point on scaling down. Hell, I could probably even scale down to a 4-3/4 gal batch and be fine. Hopefully the calcs on the page that inhousebrew posted are accurate (to see if the grains and water would fit).

 

[inhousebrew]

Good point on scaling down. Hell, I could probably even scale down to a 4-3/4 gal batch and be fine. Hopefully the calcs on the page that inhousebrew posted are accurate (to see if the grains and water would fit).

I've used those calculators a lot in the past. Most recently to make sure I could fit an imperial stout in my ten gallon cooler. It told me I could do it with a something like 9.75 gallons so I went with it and filled it exactly to the rim. Pretty close but it worked!

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ahh, dunk sparge. That sounds better than the way I tried to explain.

Yes the "dunk sparge" as already discussed, but there is also the "sprinkle" sparge as I call it and it can be easy and effective for topping up the kettle w/ wort. Basicly the sprinkle sparge is done by removing the bag and spanning the top of the pot w/ a colander or strainer, placing the bag on top and then one slowly pours, or "sprinkles" the sparge water over the grain bag...just another option that can be fast and easy, and don't be afraid to try a cold sparge, it works and can be very easy if all you need is an additional gallon or so.

 

[frailn]

I do BIAB exclusively and before I got my 15 gallon pot, I used a small turkey fryer pot. I had the same issue - not enough room for all the water and grains on larger beers. This process described by the OP is exactly what I did to overcome my small pot woes. It works like a charm.

 

[tmm0f5]

I've been reading through various threads and am frankly getting overwhelmed with all the different approaches and variations people use.

Basically, if (?) my brewpot (8 gal) can't fit a full volume of water (~7 gals) and ~10lbs of grain (still deciding on a recipe), then can I do the following;

- Put something like 5 gallons in the main pot. Perform the mash.
- Heat a 2nd pot up with the additional 2 gallons and bring to mashout temp of about 170 (or whatever its supposed to be).
- Drain bag with grains into main pot, then drop into 2nd pot for a 10 minute mashout. Drain bag again.
- Combine pots and boil.

I'm sure someone else has asked about this but just haven't seen it yet.

Thanks,
Kevin

I do exactly this. Works well, great efficiency too (80%)

 

[divrguy]

Yes the "dunk sparge" as already discussed, but there is also the "sprinkle" sparge as I call it and it can be easy and effective for topping up the kettle w/ wort. Basicly the sprinkle sparge is done by removing the bag and spanning the top of the pot w/ a colander or strainer, placing the bag on top and then one slowly pours, or "sprinkles" the sparge water over the grain bag...just another option that can be fast and easy, and don't be afraid to try a cold sparge, it works and can be very easy if all you need is an additional gallon or so.

+1 Wilser. That's such a good point on the cold sparge. At our very high ratio of water to grist, that cold sparge is not going to lose us much if any and it also has the added benefit of making the bag a heck of a lot easier to squeeze when it's not so dang hot! Lol

 

[strambo]

I do it that way. I'm only doing partial mashes though and my grain maxes out at 6 lbs or it gets way to messy. I did a full AG batch with over 9 lbs once, not worth it with the equipment I have.

I mash in a cheap 3 gal pot, then do the dunk sparge with the rest of my needed pre-boil volume in my 10 gal kettle. Dump the first runnings from the 3 gal pot in, crank the heat and go.

 

[kevreh]

So, a cold sparge is with cold water? Doesn't that reduce extraction rates since your not using warm water?

 

[Epimetheus]

So, a cold sparge is with cold water? Doesn't that reduce extraction rates since your not using warm water?

From what I have read, hot or warm sparge water is used to make the sugars a little less viscous so they flow through the grain bed of the lauter tun. Think of warm vs cool honey. But, the sugar wort is nowhere near as viscous as honey and since BIAB does not depend on a grain bed, the sugars get washed out very nicely with unheated water.

 

[wilserbrewer]

So, a cold sparge is with cold water? Doesn't that reduce extraction rates since your not using warm water?

Short answer, NO

Long answer, It has been debated at length around here by many smart people, that know far more than myself, search around a bit, but IMHO, see the short answer above.

The sugar is already disolved and doesn't need a hot rinse, sweet tea is served cold and is plenty sweet???

 

[wormraper]

Short answer, NO

Long answer, It has been debated at length around here by many smart people, that know far more than myself, search around a bit, but IMHO, see the short answer above.

The sugar is already disolved and doesn't need a hot rinse, sweet tea is served cold and is plenty sweet???

ok, TOTALLY doing that next time. I did the 2 pot "dunk" sparge a few hours ago for my first all grain and it was a PAIN hauling a ton of grain between two pots. that sprinkle "cold" sparge sounds like just my type of work saving

 

[kevreh]

Tangential question I'm still trying to find the answer too.... When everyone starts all grain their told to use a water to grain ratio of 1.2qts/lb grain, or 1.4qts/lb grain or around their. If I mash in with 7 gallons of water for a 11lb grain batch, then I'm at ~2.5qts/lb. How is that ok? Wouldn't I get poor side affects from such a thin mash? The recent Zymurgy addresses this "myth" as saying it aint so, but why?

 

[kevreh]

Short answer, NO

Long answer, It has been debated at length around here by many smart people, that know far more than myself, search around a bit, but IMHO, see the short answer above.

The sugar is already disolved and doesn't need a hot rinse, sweet tea is served cold and is plenty sweet???

So, it sounds like COLD actually means room temp or luke warm water. ?

 

[inhousebrew]

The sparge is just rinsing sugars as far as I know. Therefore it doesn't matter if you're rinsing with warm, hot or cold water. It's just washing them off. Off course with cool to cold water it will decrease your temp and will then take longer to heat to a boil

Also, if doing a dunk sparge I don't think it would hurt to stir the grain as well once it's in there. I noticed a jump in efficiency for my full all grain setup when I started stirring a bit more aggressively during the batch sparge.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Stirring is good!

 

[daksin]

Why sparge with cold water? Hot water will get you better extraction, AND it won't take forever to bring your wort up to a boil.

But yes, to OP, I do exactly what you're describing- mash in one pot, batch sparge in another. Gets me awesome efficiency with BIAB.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Why sparge with cold water? Hot water will get you better extraction,

Why will hot water yield better extraction?

 

[divrguy]

Why sparge with cold water? Hot water will get you better extraction, AND it won't take forever to bring your wort up to a boil.

But yes, to OP, I do exactly what you're describing- mash in one pot, batch sparge in another. Gets me awesome efficiency with BIAB.

Well, I agree that a warmer water (if you sparge) will get to boil quicker but I'm not sold that hot water will yield any real negligible results. They didn't for me

 

[jCOSbrew]

I do no sparge and get about 80% brew house efficiency. It is not necessary to mash with full water volume. Just top off the kettle after the mash. This works well with a smaller kettle or if you don't have exact numbers for grain absorption.

 

[kevreh]

I do no sparge and get about 80% brew house efficiency. It is not necessary to mash with full water volume. Just top off the kettle after the mash. This works well with a smaller kettle or if you don't have exact numbers for grain absorption.

Can't believe you get that % of efficiency NOT doing a full water volume mash AND not some form of sparging or otherwise. How long do you let the grain bag drip?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Can't believe you get that % of efficiency NOT doing a full water volume mash AND not some form of sparging or otherwise. How long do you let the grain bag drip?

I believe he is saying he tops off the kettle (mash) prior to lifting the bag, so therefore doing a partial volume mash, but a full volume single sparge...whew, everybody back to their corners. cheers!

Or maybe he is topping off the kettle w/ water, but a small amount, say 10-15%???

 

[kevreh]

Wow I'm so stoked to try biab. I stopped all grain a few years ago because I got a little overwhelmed with all the gear, steps, cleaning, time, etc... The time wont really be cut but at least things will be simpler. When I was doing AG before I also had efficiency issues, rarely north of 70%. The increased efficiency with biab is a definite bonus.

Thanks everyone for your help!