Better than Apfelwein...

[431brew]

Want to make my first batch, and have two questions:

1. Ed's original 5 gal recipe used 5gr pack of Monty. I'm making 2.5 gals and want it a little sweeter/ fruitier, so using Wyeast 3068. Since I am making half of the recipe, would I simply use 2.5gr of this yeast? Or is another amount required for this type of yeast and 2.5 gal batch?

2. I bottle my small batches of beer in PET bottles with screw on caps. This works for me since they do not sit around long after 3-4 weeks of conditioning. However, never made the AW and do not know quick it carbs or how long it will last compared to beer. Do you think my screw on caps and bottle carbing will be okay for AW?

Thanks.

 

[slimer]

Use the whole pack of yeast.

I'll let other people comment on the bottle carbing.

 

[jds]

Want to make my first batch, and have two questions:

1. Ed's original 5 gal recipe used 5gr pack of Monty. I'm making 2.5 gals and want it a little sweeter/ fruitier, so using Wyeast 3068. Since I am making half of the recipe, would I simply use 2.5gr of this yeast? Or is another amount required for this type of yeast and 2.5 gal batch?

2. I bottle my small batches of beer in PET bottles with screw on caps. This works for me since they do not sit around long after 3-4 weeks of conditioning. However, never made the AW and do not know quick it carbs or how long it will last compared to beer. Do you think my screw on caps and bottle carbing will be okay for AW?

Thanks.

If it works for beer, it should work for Cider/Apfelwein as well, at least as far as holding a seal. I keg, so I can't tell you much about bottle-conditioning Apfelwein.

 

[431brew]

Use the whole pack of yeast.

I'll let other people comment on the bottle carbing.

Thanks, slimer. Wasn't sure if there were a such thing as too much yeast.

If it works for beer, it should work for Cider/Apfelwein as well, at least as far as holding a seal. I keg, so I can't tell you much about bottle-conditioning Apfelwein.

Thanks, jds. And if it holds a seal, it should not spoil before it is all gone since making a small batch.

I was concerned it would spoil before it was "ripe". Then I realized that it is staying in the carboy and airtight until it is ripens. By bottling time, it is already drinkable so really only need to wait long enough for it to carbonate.

I still am not sure that I want to carbonate it. I have never tasted any carbed or uncarbed, so not sure what to expect. I am still digging through the search engine trying to get different opinions.

 

[slimer]

Tasty! SWMBO likes it.

 

[431brew]

LOL @ Tasty! Carbed or uncarbed or both? SWMBO likes wine so hoping she likes this.

 

[kforest236]

Want to make my first batch, and have two questions:

1. Ed's original 5 gal recipe used 5gr pack of Monty. I'm making 2.5 gals and want it a little sweeter/ fruitier, so using Wyeast 3068. Since I am making half of the recipe, would I simply use 2.5gr of this yeast? Or is another amount required for this type of yeast and 2.5 gal batch?

2. I bottle my small batches of beer in PET bottles with screw on caps. This works for me since they do not sit around long after 3-4 weeks of conditioning. However, never made the AW and do not know quick it carbs or how long it will last compared to beer. Do you think my screw on caps and bottle carbing will be okay for AW?

Thanks.

I used the 2.5 g pack of 3068 this time (2.5 Gal) and it is bubbling away just fine. As for the bottles, I made a 5 gal batch of origonal recipe and bottled half in wine bottles with corks (uncarbed), and half in 12 oz bottles (carbed). Tastes all the same to me. Although you may want to keep some around longer than 3-4 weeks. I didnt like mine until it had set for at least 4 weeks and I still have 1 wine bottle uncarbed and a 6 pack of carbed sitting to do a comparison. I bottled my first batch around Thanksgiving.

 

[431brew]

Thanks, kforest. Good info. Let me know how your next comparison of carbed vs. non-carbed goes since you have some age on it now. I want to see if you still think it tastes the same.

 

[slimer]

I just kegged mine yesterday and SWMBO likes it that way, but I want to carb it up.

 

[brewerdad]

I started a batch 10 days ago using Wyeast 4184 Sweet Mead yeast, with the 2lb of dextrose added to the 5 gallons of Mott's juice. It's been bubbling away, very politely, since then. There is only a couple of inches of headspace between the juice and the stopper, and it very regularly fills nearly up with teeny-tiny bubbles which dissipate within a minute or so. Then it starts again. It's been doing that for days, fun to watch.

I'll post when the tasting begins. My first batch, though, so nothing to compare it to...

 

[431brew]

I received my package of yeast (3068) in the mail yesterday, along with corn sugar, bottle filler, and a couple of other things. Then, went to the store tonight and bought 2 1/2 gals of juice and 2 gals of spring water. I am going to start the AW one night this week (if I can get a bottle), and use the spring water to brew a 2 1/2 gal batch of beer on Saturday.

I was going to buy the spring water in the 3 gal "exchange" jug and let the jug be the AW fermenter (after using the water in the beer), but started thinking about all of the posts about the #7 containers and chickened out. Besides, they wanted $12 for the 3 gal #7 bottle when I can get a 5 gal Better Bottle for $18. Plus, the water jug had a blue tint to it, so wasn't sure how well I would be able to check the clarity of this stuff through it. Never made AW, so not sure what to expect. Now I have to find something else to use as a fermenter since I didn't get the 3 gal bottle.

You should have seen the look on the cashier's face when I went to the register with two gal jugs and one half-gal jug of apple juice, two gal jugs of spring water, and a can of deodorant. She could tell that I was up to something, but she just wasn't sure what it was.

 

[fratermus]

1. Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen Yeast
The best by far, super tasty with a great, almost tropical fruit flavor and aroma.

After I read this I started a batch of 3068 apfelwein on May 4th. I noticed a couple of things:

* real krausen
* much slower fermentation rate than with the champagne yeast. The montrachet had hellacious CO2 production in the first two weeks and basically stopped.

The 3068 has been bubbling since May, and is now at every 20 seconds or so. I haven't taken a hydro reading yet, but Lordy.

I made it before reading that the OP had used yeast nutrient in his 3068 batch; perhaps that's why this one is taking so long.

 

[Chip]

I started a batch Sunday with nothing more than apple juice and White Labs 300 yeast. Used a car boy and I am learning the need for blow off tubes. A bit of foam in the air lock both yesterday and today as I got home. A quick washout and refilling with vodka and off we go.

 

[fratermus]

1. Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen Yeast
The best by far, super tasty with a great, almost tropical fruit flavor and aroma.

I've hit a wall with this and need advice.

I made a batch of AW with the 3068 in early May (glass carboy). Fermentation moved much slower than with Monty.

Anyhow, this thing has been bubbling every 2mins or so for the past couple of weeks. I pulled a sample today. Tastes GREAT, nice and fruity without being overly sweet. This would be a real crowd pleaser. I would have slammed the rest of the hydro sample but it was 8am and I respect the unholy powers of the AW.

Hydro reads. 1.010 after 2.5months in the carboy. IIRC Airtight reports elsewhere that his 3068 batch[es] get down around 1.001-1.003.

Any thoughts on this? Forget about it for another month? Rack it off the yeast sediment to prevent off flavors and perhaps rouse the remaining yeast? Build up a 3068 starter (in juice? wort? mix?) and repitch? Bottle it and pray? Just drink the hydro samples until it's finally gone?

 

[Arneba28]

I would say forget about it for another month. My other thought. Whats your fermentation temp like

 

[Bender]

Just drink the hydro samples until it's finally gone?

I find your way of thinking intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I've hit a wall with this and need advice.........

.........Any thoughts on this? Forget about it for another month? Rack it off the yeast sediment to prevent off flavors and perhaps rouse the remaining yeast? Build up a 3068 starter (in juice? wort? mix?) and repitch? Bottle it and pray? Just drink the hydro samples until it's finally gone?

Did you add yeast nutrients or yeast energizer?

If you didn't then add some. As for how much, check the bottle. My stuff says 1/2 tsp per gallon. (I think I used energizer) Whatever you do don't add too much more is NOT better.

Watch out when you do this!!!! Add it, then cap it, give a shake (rock-it),..... bamm it takes off like you dropped in alka-seltzer!!!

It could be an event like old faithful. I once forgot to add nutrients in a batch with Cote De Blancs. At 3-4 days it was stalled. It cranked for a day and stopped. I hit it with energizer. Wow I was really surprised.

If you did this already the let it do its thing. Wait a month. All of my batches have taken a minimum of 12 weeks. I run them cool 57-62F

 

[fratermus]

I would say forget about it for another month. My other thought. Whats your fermentation temp like

Warm; temp gun says 74F on the side of the carboy. I don't have room for the AW in the temp-controlled fridge, so it has to stay out in the wet shirt.

 

[fratermus]

Did you add yeast nutrients or yeast energizer?

If you didn't then add some. As for how much, check the bottle. My stuff says 1/2 tsp per gallon. (I think I used energizer) Whatever you do don't add too much more is NOT better.

I didn't. I started that batch before I read the OP add later in the thread that he used energizer. This has been on my mind. I did not suspect one could add nutrients after the main fermentation was done.

I'll add in some nutrient (it's what I've got) and will keep a blowoff nearby.

*pause*

Holy crap, that really did foam up, but didn't get up to the airlock. I'll check it again in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for the input, folks.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Nice. just found this thread...i'll have to try some apfelwein with WLP300!

 

[Brandon O]

I put a batch of apfelwein in with some weihenstephan weizen. I used a nutrient before pitching. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Campden on its own will NOT stop fermentation- in fact winemakers do use it to kill wild yeasts and bacteria. I use campden every other racking in all of my wines.

To stop fermentation, sorbate is added to the wine. However, you also need campden, too- because sorbate works better in the presence of sulfites and also because sorbate without some sulfite can led to a geranium-like off flavor and smell. So, you are 100% correct.

For any questions (not just apfelwein, but any threads) it's always best to start a new thread!

Actually, it's the other way round: Camden kills yeast, Sorbate inhibits yeast reproduction. As per Jack Keller: Potassium Metabisulfite:
One of two compounds which may be used to sanitize winemaking equipment and utensils (the other being sodium metabisulfite). Potassium metabisulfite is the active ingredient in Campden tablets. Its action, in water or wine, inhibits harmful bacteria through the release of sulfur dioxide, a powerful antiseptic. It can be used for sanitizing equipment and the must from which wine is to be made. For equipment, a 1% solution (10 grams dissolved in 1 liter of water) is sufficient for washing and rinsing. After using the solution, the equipment should not again be rinsed. For sanitizing the must, a 10% solution is made (100 grams dissolved in 1 liter of water). Three milliliters of this 10% solution added to a U.S. gallon of must will add approximately 45 ppm of sulfur dioxide (SO2) to the must. One should wait at least 12 hours after sanitizing the must before adding the yeast. Both bottles of solution (1% and 10%) should be clearly labeled as to strength and active compound to prevent disastrous mistakes, and both may be stored in a cool place for up to one year without effecting potency. Also see Campden Tablet and Sodium Metabisulfite.
Potassium Sorbate:
Also known as "Sorbistat K" and affectionately as "wine stabilizer," potassium sorbate produces sorbic acid when added to wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine racked the final time after clearing, 1/2 tsp. added to 1 gallon of wine will render any surviving yeast incapable of multiplying. Yeast living at that moment can continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. When a wine is sweetened before bottling potassium sorbate is used to prevent refermentation. It should always be used in conjunction with potassium metabisulfite (1/4 teaspoon per 5 gallons of wine or 1 crushed and dissolved Campden tablet per gallon) and the wine will not be stabilized without it. It is primarily used with sweet wines and sparkling wines, but may be added to table wines which exhibit difficulty in maintaining clarity after fining. Also see Sodium Benzoate and Wine Stabilizer.

Just thought I'd point that out. Hope you find this info useful. Regards, GF.

 

[Brandon O]

I racked the 3068 Apfelwein last night onto 2 lbs of blueberries.

After 10 days in the primary it was at 1.011. I am interested to see where it finishes in the secondary. Regular apfelwein with montraceth would get down to .999 no problem.
I know 3068 has a tolerance of around 10% abv. So maybe it will get down there.

Should this recipe get down to .999 with the 3068? Same recipe as apfelwein, 2lbs of dextrose and all.

 

[fratermus]

I'll check it again in a couple of weeks.

Ok, I tossed in some energizer a coupla weeks ago. Kicked up for about 3 days then back to its old low/slow bubbling.

Pulled samples sat/sun, and they were 1.004. It was much drier, and less fruity (and less enjoyable) than the hydro sample of two weeks ago. I think I still prefer it to stock AW at this point but it's hard to tell.

I carbed with 4oz of dextrose and stored in a "bomb shelter"; a large rubbermaid storage bin. So if they BTFU the damage should be contained. I was a little frustrated with this batch and wanted it to be over with, one way or another.

If I do this again I would likely do 1gal test batches with 3068 and energizer. If that didn't take it down to a normal FG I'd toss in some Monte at the 2month mark and pray that some of the fruit character survived the monte.

 

[fratermus]

Should this recipe get down to .999 with the 3068? Same recipe as apfelwein, 2lbs of dextrose and all.

I think the fellow that started this AW+3068 bizness said in this thread that it got down to a terminal 1.002 or 1.003. I'll have to look that up.

I don't know what effect fruit will have on the FG; I don't have much experience with that.

 

[Mirage]

Hey, when you used Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen Yeast, did your brew produce any sort of sulpher smell? I am anxious to try the apfelwein recipe but I live in an apartment with 5 other people and while they don't mind fermenting beer, I don't think they will appreciate the strong smell of sulpher permeating the house. :cross:

 

[fratermus]

My 3068 batch did not give off sulfur.

BTW, none of my batch referenced above has bombed on me. They are still intact in the covered bomb shelter.

 

[Mirage]

LOL, nice. I know who to call if Russia gets all upidy. Thanks for the response. I know you had a problem with that yeast strain fermenting quickly, which yeast did you find the best? Thanks!

 

[fratermus]

The only carbed apfelwein I have tried so far is my original normal montrachet batch. I'll check a test bottle of the the 3068 batch around the 1st and will report back.

 

[Mirage]

Excellent, thank you! I look forward to hearing about it!

 

[gwood]

Just pitched two batches last night. One with 3086 and one with Cotes de Blanc. Interested to here folks report back on either.

 

[Ben25]

I just finished a 5 gal batch with 3068 and 2 lbs of dextrose. Started at 1.059, ended at 1.005. I bottled it still, tastes great! (mostly for SWMBO) I'm now trying another 5 gal batch with 4 lbs honey. SG 1.080. I used WL English cider yeast. I'll let you guys know how it comes out.

 

[gwood]

I just finished a 5 gal batch with 3068 and 2 lbs of dextrose. Started at 1.059, ended at 1.005. I bottled it still, tastes great! (mostly for SWMBO) I'm now trying another 5 gal batch with 4 lbs honey. SG 1.080. I used WL English cider yeast. I'll let you guys know how it comes out.

I also did 2lbs with the 3068. How do the esters from the 3068 come through? I'm keeping to temp down but I'm hoping to get some fruity notes being that I didn't make a starter.

 

[michael88n]

Just pitched two batches last night. One with 3086 and one with Cotes de Blanc. Interested to here folks report back on either.

I did 5 gal with Cotes de Blanc and 2# of Dextrose. I fermented at 68 degrees for 6 weeks, bottled and waited for another two weeks to drink. None was carbed.

After the second bottle, I dumped it. It was 'hot' and buttery. I considered leaving the remaining bottles in the basement for a year and waiting, but I had another batch of AW made with 1118 around the corner so I dumped the rest.

SWMBO caught me pouring it all out and was like "WTF?", but after a taste she agreed.

I hope yours turns out better. Maybe I needed to wait longer or use different apple juice??? My next batch is going to be with Premier Cuvee. I haven't tried that yet, but I heard it's the shiznit.



Michael

 

[Ben25]

I also did 2lbs with the 3068. How do the esters from the 3068 come through? I'm keeping to temp down but I'm hoping to get some fruity notes being that I didn't make a starter.

The esters came through nicely. A lot of citrus up front with a hint of clove as well. It fermented for about 3 weeks at 70 degrees until fermentation got stuck and it cleared up. It was at 1.030.

I swirled it and within a couple hours, fermentation had started again. I left it for another month and a half in primary, and a few weeks in secondary before bottling.

 

[gwood]

I did 5 gal with Cotes de Blanc and 2# of Dextrose. I fermented at 68 degrees for 6 weeks, bottled and waited for another two weeks to drink. None was carbed.

After the second bottle, I dumped it. It was 'hot' and buttery. I considered leaving the remaining bottles in the basement for a year and waiting, but I had another batch of AW made with 1118 around the corner so I dumped the rest.

SWMBO caught me pouring it all out and was like "WTF?", but after a taste she agreed.

I hope yours turns out better. Maybe I needed to wait longer or use different apple juice??? My next batch is going to be with Premier Cuvee. I haven't tried that yet, but I heard it's the shiznit.



Michael

Did you use any yeast nutrients?

 

[Freezeblade]

I'm now trying another 5 gal batch with 4 lbs honey. SG 1.080. I used WL English cider yeast. I'll let you guys know how it comes out.

I've got this same one going right now, it's about 2 months old right now, and I'm going to be bottling in the next week or so, it's cleared up real nice.

 

[slimer]

I let mine sit for 4 months and it came down to .998 (with WB06)

 

[fratermus]

I just finished a 5 gal batch with 3068 and 2 lbs of dextrose. Started at 1.059, ended at 1.005.

I tested a carbed bottle bottle of 3068 + 2# last night. It is detectabley less dry and with more apple in the nose. Whereas the original Montrachet + 2# is "very dry", I'd say the 3068 + 2# is only "quite dry". Wife says it's too much like wine, rather than cider.

I've got a Montrachet + 0# in the primary now, and I think my next one will be 3068 + 0# (+ nutrients). Hopefully it will be a little less dry so the wife will drink it. We will see.

 

[gwood]

I tested a carbed bottle bottle of 3068 + 2# last night. It is detectabley less dry and with more apple in the nose. Whereas the original Montrachet + 2# is "very dry", I'd say the 3068 + 2# is only "quite dry". Wife says it's too much like wine, rather than cider.

I've got a Montrachet + 0# in the primary now, and I think my next one will be 3068 + 0# (+ nutrients). Hopefully it will be a little less dry so the wife will drink it. We will see.

You can always knock it out and back sweeten if you want.