Best method for mellowing alcohol warmth

[cactusgarrett]

I've currently got an APA on tap (about 2 weeks in), and the beer itself is starting to meld nicely. However, one of the flavors i'm starting to detect is alcohol warmth. Purposely made bigger (at around 7.9% abv), my attenuation turned out to be 89% with 1056 (not completely unexpected).

I've read around here that the hot alcohol flavor can be reduced with time, but i'm wondering if there's anything else i can do? Should i remove the keg from 40°F and let it sit at room temp for a while? Is the reduction of hot alcohols dependent on storage temps?

 

[david_42]

Yes,
yes,
yes.

You've got a good example of what happens when you push a style too far. 7.9% is into the Imperial IPA range and the malt flavors of an APA can't hold up at that level.

Conditioning speed is strongly temperature dependent. You can always dry hop if it takes too long to smooth out the alcohol. You might also consider steeping some aromatic malt and adding that to the keg.

 

[permo]

%8 ABV APA? hmmmm, you got yourself an imperial IPA there in all likelyhood.

To get that much attenuation I am going to go ahead and assume that you fermented warm and addes some simple sugars?

Regardless, cold conditioning time will be your friend.....Also, I know that gelatin can really speed up the conditioning process.

 

[cactusgarrett]

To the best of my recollection, gelatin only addresses clarity & particulate matter issues, not flavor issues. I constructed the recipe to actually BE imperial with everything balanced (IBU & OG, etc.), but took a hit on efficiency (about 7% lower than expected). I planned for around 80% apparent attenuation, as I ALWAYS get ~85% whenever i use 1056. I don't know why. However, when i crunched the numbers on this batch, 89% was the result, so that's why i said it wasn't completely unexpected.

The primary ferment temp was steady at 63°F for ~12 days, so i'd hardly consider that warm, nor did i add any additional fermentables. I followed primary fermentation up with 5 days of dry hopping, too. As of now, i'll just plan on letting it mellow, on gas, at 40°F. By no means is it undrinkable (quite the opposite, actually). I'm just trying to eliminate the only flaw i can pick out.

 

[cactusgarrett]

7.9% is into the Imperial IPA range and the malt flavors of an APA can't hold up at that level.

In the future, how would you suggest balancing a bigger/imperial IPA to avoid the warm alcohol? Next time around, i plan on fermenting around 60°F for starters. Maybe some extra crystal, too. The original recipe had 3% each crystal 20 and crystal 60, with the rest American 2-row.

 

[permo]

To the best of my recollection, gelatin only addresses clarity & particulate matter issues, not flavor issues. I constructed the recipe to actually BE imperial with everything balanced (IBU & OG, etc.), but took a hit on efficiency (about 7% lower than expected). I planned for around 80% apparent attenuation, as I ALWAYS get ~85% whenever i use 1056. I don't know why. However, when i crunched the numbers on this batch, 89% was the result, so that's why i said it wasn't completely unexpected.

The primary ferment temp was steady at 63°F for ~12 days, so i'd hardly consider that warm, nor did i add any additional fermentables. I followed primary fermentation up with 5 days of dry hopping, too. As of now, i'll just plan on letting it mellow, on gas, at 40°F. By no means is it undrinkable (quite the opposite, actually). I'm just trying to eliminate the only flaw i can pick out.

I have read a few articles that stated by using gelatin and causing the particulate matters to drop quicker actually speeds up the conditioning process of the beer.

I am not an expert on that subject.

iF you keep getting rediculous attenuation for 1056 you could switch strains or mash higher. i have found that wlp001/1056 and all it's descendants (pacman, bells..etc.etc..) to be rediculously attenuative!

 

[soundsandsuds]

%8 ABV APA? hmmmm, you got yourself an imperial IPA there in all likelyhood.

It would be an Imperial IPA, but the IBUs would be need to be bumped accordingly, too.

 

[permo]

Here is an idea.....why not make a boiled hop tea.....add some more hop bitterness and aroma to the beer to balance it out?

 

[cactusgarrett]

Seems like it'd be masking the issue as opposed to solving it or preventing it in the future, though...

 

[permo]

Seems like it'd be masking the issue as opposed to solving it or preventing it in the future, though...

Well the issue is an unbalanced beer becasue of too much attenuation and a highly fermentable wort. They way to solve it is to "balance it out" tons of alcohol is balanced by malt and or hops...tough to add malt at this point.

The way to prevent it in the future is to either modify your recipe and mash conditions to compensate for 1056 or switch to a strain that doesn't attenuate so much.

You could post your recipe so we could critique it to help you pinpoint the issue

 

[funkswing]

So, am I reading this correctly:

You have a 7.9% pale ale (who cares what the style name is) that was brewed 3 weeks ago AND you're complaining that it has alcohol warmth?

Um, if its been 3 weeks, why are you drinking that big beer already?

Don't rush the brewing process, just brew a smaller beer (<1.056) if you want to drink it in less than a month (still won't be at its best tho, min. for best flavor is generally 6 weeks from brew day.)

Just wait, keep the beer cold and on gas. Sample it once every week until you think it has mellowed out. I don't think your recipe is wrong or anything like that. Your just not allowing the beer to become the beer it supposed to be.

But you didn't post your hop schedule. That big beer could handle a ton of hops (not necessary, but it could).
Also, what temp did you mash at? Generally mash at 149 - 151 for an IPA. Sounds like that is what you did, tho.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Nope. It was brewed at the end of August. It's been on tap carbing for 2 weeks. And i'm not complaining - i've identified a flaw that i'm trying to eliminate now and prevent in the future.

I haven't posted a recipe yet because i don't have it handy. The OG was around 1.075, with 65IBU. If memory serves, i sacc rested at 156-7°F to battle the potentially higher expected attenuation level.

 

[funkswing]

Alright. I thought you had said it fermented for a week, then was conditioning in the keg for 2 weeks. My bad. I would suggest either switching yeasts or mashing for only 30-45 min. at that temp. The longer you mash, regardless of temp, you will get a more fermentable wort. How long do you mash for? Do you do a mash out? How long until the beginning of the mash until all the sparge water has been collected? If you don't mash out and sparge for a long time, that could be trumping the 156 F mash temp.

But its prolly just the US-05; its a damn dry finishing yeast. If you switch to 1056 you would prolly get less attenuation (this is my experience)

 

[Hermit]

Alright. I thought you had said it fermented for a week, then was conditioning in the keg for 2 weeks. My bad. I would suggest either switching yeasts or mashing for only 30-45 min. at that temp. The longer you mash, regardless of temp, you will get a more fermentable wort. How long do you mash for? Do you do a mash out? How long until the beginning of the mash until all the sparge water has been collected? If you don't mash out and sparge for a long time, that could be trumping the 156 F mash temp.

But its prolly just the US-05; its a damn dry finishing yeast. If you switch to 1056 you would prolly get less attenuation (this is my experience)

Care to elaborate on this one? 'Conventional' wisdom on the list indicates that folks seem to think that the beta amylase is not kicking in at 158 or so...
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/ch14.html

 

[funkswing]

Its a gradient between the two enzymes. You are ref. a chart that says "Typical Enzyme Ranges in the Mash".

That page lists the "optimum temp ranges" for each enzyme, as in where that enzyme is dominate because of the mash environment (namely the temp. of the mash).

You get faster conversion with the higher temps. So it can take only a 45 min. mash at 156 F. That is, to get full conversion of starches to sugars. The temperature is the main variable for which enzyme is dominate. But the other important variable is time. Time can trump the temp. if enough time is given. This means that when mashing at 156 F, the betas aren't negligible, they are just doing their thing slower because the environment isn't optimal for them. So, if you mash for a longer period of time, say 2 hrs, you might end up with a beer that has less body/is more fermentable because the betas had extra time to chew their starches down to fermentable sugars.

This could happen if you:
Mash for 60 min
Don't mash out (reach 168 F in the grain bed), which stops all enzymatic activity
Sparge for an hour with 180 F water, that never actually raises the grain bed to 168 F.

So, if you are mashing at 153 F for an hour and your sparge water fails to raise the temp of the grain bed to 158 F or higher, its like mashing for an hour and half or more.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Alright. I thought you had said it fermented for a week, then was conditioning in the keg for 2 weeks. My bad. I would suggest either switching yeasts or mashing for only 30-45 min. at that temp. The longer you mash, regardless of temp, you will get a more fermentable wort. How long do you mash for? Do you do a mash out? How long until the beginning of the mash until all the sparge water has been collected? If you don't mash out and sparge for a long time, that could be trumping the 156 F mash temp.

But its prolly just the US-05; its a damn dry finishing yeast. If you switch to 1056 you would prolly get less attenuation (this is my experience)

I actually DID use 1056, rested for 45min, and I batch sparged with the first sparge acting as the mashout. So...

 

[funkswing]

Well man, then I would switch to flocculating yeast. Like 1272 (american II) or Ringwood ale.

I don't think anyone here can explain to you how you mashed at 156 F and got ~90% attenuation. You used a yeast, 1056, that doesn't drop out of suspension. Or (I know this sounds like I'm being a jackass) your thermometer isn't calibrated/you didn't mix your mash well (hot temp. pockets, happened to be where your thermometer was placed).

Only you know if your technique is off. We are just trying to help. I just brewed with the US-05 for an IPA. I hope I don't get 90% attenuation!!! I even mashed at 156 F like you did too.

 

[beerisgood]

I read on brew365.com that US-05 was presumably the same strain as 1056. Can anyone speak to that?

 

[funkswing]

They are both the Chico/Sierra Nevada pale ale yeast true. That doesn't mean that there are slight diff. in their attenuation and flavor profile in practice.

This could just be because one is dry and one is liquid. I dunno, I personally like the dry us-05 because its easier (no starter) and cheaper. The end result is cleaner I think than the 1056. But overall, yes they are the same yeast strain.

 

[mikeysab]

I had the same thing happen to me with a DFH 60 clone (Yoopers). Mashed at 154, which dropped to 152 over an hour. Started at 1.068 and finished at 1.012. The alcohol warmth was the same on the fiirst TAD bottle as it was with the last (3 months later). It never mellowed, it never went away, it was just there, and there to stay. 7 percent wasn't something that I thought would take that long to mellow out, but after 3 months, it hadn't mellowed out. So maybe something in my process was off, but my system is pretty solid. everythings calibrated, and there shouldn't be any drastic differences between what I saw in the numbers and what the numbers actually were. I think It was just the taste of the brew, and aside from conditioning it for nine months, nothing would have changed it.

 

[funkswing]

I'm not positive, but a warm primary could be the culprit. Like 70 F and higher.

What's a TAD bottle? Were they bottle conditioned beers?

 

[cactusgarrett]

Tap-a-Draft.

 

[homebrewers_haven]

Agreed with the warm primary. Just tried two of my beers, a NW style IPA and a NW style red which were fermented in my closet which sits pretty at 70-71degrees POSSIBLY a bit warmer SOMETIMES. Alcohol warmth on both. Letting them mellow for a while but they are already in kegs...my ONLY 2.

 

[indianaroller]

Oak.

 

[bmick]

Hot (solvent) alcohol is a result of high fermentation temps. Ferment around 64-65 with 1056 to avoid this.