Berliner Weisse HEAVILY fruited beer clone by New Park Brewing in CT (Blender series)

[Leblais]

Has anyone had one of these Blender series beers from New Park Brewing in Connecticut? They claim that the beer is a berliner weisse beer but is conditioned on "massive amounts of fruit". They also mention that due to the fruit content, the beer MUST REMAIN COLD unit consumed. This seems odd to me, but maybe its because they finish the beer then cold condition on the fruit for a certain amount of time and they are maybe afraid that the yeast will reactivate and consume the fruit?? They also note a "yogurt complexity".

These beers are THICK,opaque and tart with some sweetness..... really good. I am looking to clone. Anyone have any experience with trying to replicate these??

They have all different flavors such as blueberry, raspberry, mixed berry, pineapple (or was it pineapple cherry?), etc.

Any ideas? I imagine they are doing a Lacto kettle sour with lots of white wheat, oats and lactose and of course a CRAP TON of fruit.

If anyone has any ideas, let me know. I would like to do one of these early spring (i have too many going on currently--- 2 NEIPAs, bohemian lager, belgian strong ale, not to mention some blackberry wine)

 

[RPh_Guy]

They also mention that due to the fruit content, the beer MUST REMAIN COLD unit consumed. This seems odd to me,

Pretty sure it has unfermented sugar, making it shelf unstable.
A local brewery has "sours" like this. I think they add fruit puree directly to the package, including starchy fruit like banana for ultra thick body and haze. They pasteurize.

I can't help much with the recipe since that type isn't really my thing, but I would like to point out this easy souring method:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/fast-souring-modern-methods.670176/

If the fruit+banana puree doesn't get you the desired mouthfeel & sugary sweetness, you can definitely try malted barley, lactose, and/or maltodextrin. Forget oats. Also make sure your water is chloride heavy.

If you keg, great, keep it cold. If you bottle, you'll need to pasteurize after carbonating.

Cheers

 

[Brettomomyces]

It's a kettle sour with fruit puree added at packaging. Siggi's good belly yogurt is common for brewers out here for kettle souring because it's a heck of a lot cheaper and easier than buying commercial lacto pitches. I would bet that's what they're referring to with the yogurt line.

We've had a few places out here with exploding crowlers & warnings to keep cold. As soon as they warm the fruit just ferments away.

 

[RPh_Guy]

FYI bacteria can produce yogurt flavors, even if yogurt isn't actually used as the source of the bacteria.
But, having actual yogurt as the source of yogurt flavor would make sense too.

Siggi's good belly yogurt is common for brewers out here for kettle souring

What is "Siggi's good belly yogurt"? Siggi's yogurt and GoodBelly are different things as far as I can tell.

 

[Leblais]

Pretty sure it has unfermented sugar, making it shelf unstable.
A local brewery has "sours" like this. I think they add fruit puree directly to the package, including starchy fruit like banana for ultra thick body and haze. They pasteurize.

I can't help much with the recipe since that type isn't really my thing, but I would like to point out this easy souring method:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/fast-souring-modern-methods.670176/

If the fruit+banana puree doesn't get you the desired mouthfeel & sugary sweetness, you can definitely try malted barley, lactose, and/or maltodextrin. Forget oats. Also make sure your water is chloride heavy.

If you keg, great, keep it cold. If you bottle, you'll need to pasteurize after carbonating.

Cheers

I will definitely try that souring method, thanks for the input ! I dont want a ton of sweetness (maybe a little just to combat the tartness), but the banana thing sounds interesting as far as mouthfeel is concerned (not sure I would ever do it tbh, but interesting non-the-less). I imagine if they are adding fruit at packaging (vs conditioning , which is what they are saying they did) that would add the sweetness (and additional tartness too, depending on the fruit). Not sure it would really work to dispense of of a keg though, if I were to add fruit puree too the beer as it were put into the keg. I think it would totally clog the line.

 

[Leblais]

It's a kettle sour with fruit puree added at packaging. Siggi's good belly yogurt is common for brewers out here for kettle souring because it's a heck of a lot cheaper and easier than buying commercial lacto pitches. I would bet that's what they're referring to with the yogurt line.

We've had a few places out here with exploding crowlers & warnings to keep cold. As soon as they warm the fruit just ferments away.

Yes, I totally would use good belly.... I was planning on cold "conditioning" the fruit puree, as they stated that they do. I figured I would add it closer to the cool/cold side, after crash cooling. That way most of the yeast has dropped (and will be dumped), there wont be a lot of fermentation (if any, depending on the temps i hold in the conical, which I think I may actually keep cold ie 34ish) and then let it sit for a week or so to blend the flavors, then dump a little of the fruit solids, let it condition another 2-3 days then pressure keg the batch. Does this sound about right? Any ideas or thoughts here?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Sounds ok to me.

 

[Leblais]

or do you think that the fruit should ferment a bit? and if so when and at what temp and for how long? Any idea how much puree to add to 10 gallons of beer??

 

[RPh_Guy]

It sounds like the unfermented fruit juice is a large part of what you like about the beer you're trying to reproduce, so I would suggest you don't let it ferment.
Use your own best judgment; I'm just making educated guesses since I haven't had those particular beers from New Park Brewing.

The amount of puree depends on the type of fruit. See the chart on this page for suggested amounts:
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Soured_Fruit_Beer#Usage_Suggestions

Hope this helps

 

[Leblais]

How do you add chloride without all the salt??

 

[RPh_Guy]

How do you add chloride without all the salt??

Mainly calcium chloride and maybe some sodium chloride and/or potassium chloride.

 

[Leblais]

Mainly calcium chloride and maybe some sodium chloride and/or potassium chloride.

calcium chloride IS a salt.... all those are actually.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yes, and?

 

[Leblais]

well, the question was can you add chloride without all the salt or does it not matter?

 

[Leblais]

Isn't the point to make soft water to give that nice pillowy texture? And, if I am not mistaken, soft water has minimal amounts of calcium and magnesium, so technically we dont want to add those, right? I think potassium levels need to remain pretty low too, for a few different reasons (I think i heard something about it effecting mash enzymes, having effects on yeast etc)

 

[RPh_Guy]

I'll try to keep things simple.

• Calcium chloride is the main source of chloride used by brewers.
• It is not harmful to your health. There's nothing scary about "salts" unless you put the word "bath" in front.
• Calcium is flavor neutral in reasonable amounts. It's needed for enzyme activity in the mash and is generally considered beneficial for yeast.
• Chloride adds a fullness to the flavor and body.
• I shoot for 50-80ppm chloride in my water for sours, and 0-30ppm sulfate.

Basic water chemistry info:

• Flavor ions should be adjusted to the brewer's taste to achieve the desired flavor for the particular style of beer. The main flavor ions are chloride, sulfate, sodium, and magnesium.
• The brewer should also ensure adequate levels of calcium, typically around 50-100ppm.
• Alkalinity (bicarbonate) comes into play when adjusting the mash pH and when sparging (if applicable). Mash pH should be adjusted to around 5.3-5.5 using acid or base, and sparge water alkalinity needs to be neutralized with acid.
• Other trace ions like zinc are important for yeast health as well; consider using a yeast nutrient with zinc.

 

[Leblais]

I'll try to keep things simple.

• Calcium chloride is the main source of chloride used by brewers.
• It is not harmful to your health. There's nothing scary about "salts" unless you put the word "bath" in front.
• Calcium is flavor neutral in reasonable amounts. It's needed for enzyme activity in the mash and is generally considered beneficial for yeast.
• Chloride adds a fullness to the flavor and body.
• I shoot for 50-80ppm chloride in my water for sours, and 0-30ppm sulfate.

Basic water chemistry info:

• Flavor ions should be adjusted to the brewer's taste to achieve the desired flavor for the particular style of beer. The main flavor ions are chloride, sulfate, sodium, and magnesium.
• The brewer should also ensure adequate levels of calcium, typically around 50-100ppm.
• Alkalinity (bicarbonate) is important to consider when adjusting the mash pH and when sparging (if applicable). Mash pH should be adjusted to around 5.3-5.5 using acid or base, and sparge water alkalinity needs to be neutralized with acid.
• Other trace ions like zinc are important for yeast health as well; consider using a yeast nutrient with zinc.

Some great info here... thanks