Belgian IPA -- please review my hops schedule

[Rustrose]

I'm brewing up a Belgian IPA along the lines of Houblon Chouffe or Green Flash Le Freak: start with a nice Tripel (mine is based on Westmalle) and then hop it up with a blend of noble and Pacific NW citrusy hops. My goal is to get a light, fluffy beer with a great balance of floral/citrusy hops and Belgian yeast character, and not too sharp in bitterness.

The grain bill and yeast are already determined based on what I've got: pilsner malt, some table sugar, and Wyeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity.

What I need help with is reviewing the hop schedule, to make sure my decisions make sense, and that the hops aren't going to overpower everything else. I have limited experience designing hoppy beers, so feedback is greatly appreciated! I'll work out getting the IBUs right (gunning for about 60). I mainly just need help reviewing the FWH/finishing/dry hops

here's what I've got so far:

Batch size 5 gals
OG 1.080
IBUs-- shooting for about 60, will tweak bittering hops once finishing hops are set

13 lbs pilsner malt
1.5 lbs table sugar

0.5 oz Saaz 4% First Wort Hops
0.5 oz Amarillo 8.2% First Wort Hops

X hops for bittering

0.5 oz Amarillo 8.2% 30 min
0.75 oz Saaz 4% 20 min
1.0 oz Saaz 4% 10 min
0.5 oz Saaz 4% 0 min
0.5 oz Amarillo 8.2% 0 min

dry hop with 1.5 oz amarillo for 7 days

Thanks so much!

 

[dirty_martini]

I would actually back down the bittering ever so slightly. 50-60 IBUs is more than enough for this type of beer. What people dont seem to understand about combining a tripel and an IPA is that an IPA has a lot more malt character, thus it can stand up to the bitterness. With a tripel, especially yours being just pils and sugar, it will likely finish quite dry and have little to no malt character. I think hops work with belgian yeast, I just dont think bitterness does. Thats my one issue with most Belgian IPAs. I think you could very easily use less total IBUs because of the lack of malt and still get a prominent bitterness to let you know its an IPA, but focus on how the hops and yeast will work together because thats ultimately the most important thing.

 

[Rustrose]

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that I don't want the hops (particularly bitterness) to overpower this beer. I really like Houblon Chouffe because of it's great sense of balance, and the same goes with Le Freak. I have not especially enjoyed the beers where people just took an IPA recipe and threw in a Belgian yeast. I prefer to take a more balanced, nuanced, Belgian approach. I got 60 IBUs as a starting point because that's what Houblon Chouffe supposedly figures for the boil, although evidently after fermentation it drops to about 45 or so. I'm not sure if I should follow suit and gun for 60 and expect it to lose some in fermentation, or shoot lower to begin with.

I just brewed an all-saaz, 40 IBU tripel based on the malt bill you see here with Wyeast 3787 and it came out very balanced, with a subtle drying swell of bitterness in the finish. I do think I'll want a little more than that for the IPA version, but not loads more. There was still a decent amount of malt character in there-- a lovely delicate doughy sweetness with a little grainy/biscuit finish.

Any advice on how to layer the finishing hops? I want to get the flavor balance right of yeast character to citrus to noble/floral-- all in a dance.

 

[Rustrose]

Anyone else with advice here? I'm wondering whether the first wort hops make sense, and whether the late additions look good. My goal here is to get a nice Saaz spicy focus, kind of supplemented with a moderate amount of Amarillo citrus. Will they both be detectable, and in some kind of balance?

 

[loapathy]

The recipe the girlfriend and I typically use is more of a APA/AIPA mutant with increased aroma hops and Belgian Ardennes, so that's something you might want to think about. Take something like Sierra Nevada, switch out the 2row for Pilsner, mash lower, up the flavor and aroma hops, and use a Belgian yeast (like Ardennes, or Trappist High Gravity like you've already got).

That said, the only success I've had with IPA tripels is with one heavy handed bitter addition at 60 minutes to make up about 2/3 of a 1:1 IBU/OG ratio, and then bombing it with high AA citrusy hops from 20 minutes to flameout, and dry hopping with something cleanly citrusy, like Cascades or Centennial or even Warrior, and not using something like Calypso or Citra or Simcoe, because IMHO their fruitiness fights with the phenols and esters of belgian yeasts.