Belgian Dubbel recipe attempt, requesting feedback

[jwyse]

I've done 3 extract kit brews now, and wanted to try doing my next brew from a recipe and ingredients, rather than a kit. I've put this recipe together based on the dubbel recipe in Papazian's Joy of Homebrewing and the Brew Builder app at BMW.

3.3 lbs. Munton's Dark Liquid Extract
3.3 lbs. Munton's Light Liquid Extract
1 lb. Munton's Extra Light Dry Extract
1 lb. Clear Candi Sugar
1.25 oz. Styrian Golding pellets (2% AA), 60min
1.25 oz. Hallertau (German) pellets (3% AA), 60min
White Labs Abbey Ale yeast, WLP530

I've made a few substitutions based on what's available at BMW, and additions based on some style descriptions I've read on BMW and elsewhere. I was totally relying on the Brew Builder app to get my amounts within range (and they are, according to the Brew Builder), but when I plugged the same recipe into BeerSmith (my first attempt using that software), the OG/FG/etc. were off. I'd like to think that BMW has more accurate specs on their specific ingredients than BeerSmith's generic ingredient list -- maybe that's the difference.

Now I'm looking at it and wondering if the fact that I'm using a lot of extract and no steeped grains will be a bad thing.

Any input/suggestions?

 

[jjp36]

My thoughts:

If your using clear candy, save some money and just use table sugar. Its the same thing. If you don't mind spending the money i would replace the clear candy with some dark candy syrup.

That malt bill is also kind of boring. You definitely want some specialty grains in there. I would get rid of the dark and dry extract, and just use the liquid pilsner extract that BMW carries, and then steep some special b and caravienne or caramunich for color/flavor.

 

[jwyse]

Thanks for your input, jjp. How does this look?

3.3 lbs. Munton's Light Liquid Extract
3.3 lbs. Briess Pilsen Light Liquid Extract
8 oz. Special B
12 oz. Caramel Munich
1 lb. Clear Candi Sugar
1.25 oz. Styrian Golding pellets (2% AA), 60min
1.25 oz. Hallertau (German) pellets (3% AA), 60min
White Labs Abbey Ale yeast, WLP530

Again, I tweaked the amounts based on the Brew Builder calculator. The special B and caramel munich amounts are just a guess -- I welcome any recommendations for a better balance. I kept the clear candi sugar since I've already placed the order, so it's too late for money-saving changes.

 

[syd138]

make your own dark candi.

Just boil some table sugar with a tad bit of water. Keep stirring until it turns brown.. and you are good to go.

I've made some tasty beers with my own dark belgian candi.

 

[syd138]

btw, your recipe looks ok.. you might want to cut the Special B down to 4oz though


I did a nice easy Belgian Dubbel extract awhile back that turned out fantastic.

6.3 lbs Light LME
1 lb Light DME
.25 Caramunich
.25 Special B
1oz Spalter (60min)
1oz Czech Saaz (5min)


Wyeast 1214

 

[jwyse]

Cool, thanks for the suggestion syd.

Does your dark candi 'recipe' work for darkening clear candi? I've already bought it (I didn't know better), so I might as well use it. If I can turn it amber/dark to better fit the style without ruining it, that'd be great.

What's the benefit of mixing the Light LME/DME in your recipe? Was it just to add more extract without opening another container of liquid?

 

[BierMuncher]

make your own dark candi.

Just boil some table sugar with a tad bit of water. Keep stirring until it turns brown.. and you are good to go.

I've made some tasty beers with my own dark belgian candi.

But watch out. That stuff is explosive if you drop water into it while hot.

And it will stick to you like napalm.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

My thoughts:

If your using clear candy, save some money and just use table sugar. Its the same thing. If you don't mind spending the money i would replace the clear candy with some dark candy syrup.

That malt bill is also kind of boring. You definitely want some specialty grains in there. I would get rid of the dark and dry extract, and just use the liquid pilsner extract that BMW carries, and then steep some special b and caravienne or caramunich for color/flavor.

+1 for the Special B, Caravienne, and Caramunich suggestion. I just bottled a dubbel that I had in the primary for 7 weeks, and I used all of those grains in my recipe.

I think I used .5 lb of Special B, .25 lb each of Caravienne and Caramunich, as well as 1 lb of clear candi sugar.

I am going to make my own candi sugar from now on, all you really have to do is add some citric acid to the sugar and boil it until you hit the hard crack temp so it will become candi sugar when it cools.

I tried to make some Turbinado candi sugar, I ended up with Candi Syrup, I either used too much water, or I didn't get it hot enough or a combo of the two, I think it was too much water. Either way I could still use it and it was half the cost for twice as much!

 

[Synovia]

I've done 3 extract kit brews now, and wanted to try doing my next brew from a recipe and ingredients, rather than a kit. I've put this recipe together based on the dubbel recipe in Papazian's Joy of Homebrewing and the Brew Builder app at BMW.

3.3 lbs. Munton's Dark Liquid Extract
3.3 lbs. Munton's Light Liquid Extract
1 lb. Munton's Extra Light Dry Extract
1 lb. Clear Candi Sugar
1.25 oz. Styrian Golding pellets (2% AA), 60min
1.25 oz. Hallertau (German) pellets (3% AA), 60min
White Labs Abbey Ale yeast, WLP530

I've made a few substitutions based on what's available at BMW, and additions based on some style descriptions I've read on BMW and elsewhere. I was totally relying on the Brew Builder app to get my amounts within range (and they are, according to the Brew Builder), but when I plugged the same recipe into BeerSmith (my first attempt using that software), the OG/FG/etc. were off. I'd like to think that BMW has more accurate specs on their specific ingredients than BeerSmith's generic ingredient list -- maybe that's the difference.

Now I'm looking at it and wondering if the fact that I'm using a lot of extract and no steeped grains will be a bad thing.

Any input/suggestions?

I've noticed some kind of wonky things with BrewBuilder on BWM.... like Lactose fermenting out. I wouldn't trust it.

 

[syd138]

Cool, thanks for the suggestion syd.

Does your dark candi 'recipe' work for darkening clear candi? I've already bought it (I didn't know better), so I might as well use it. If I can turn it amber/dark to better fit the style without ruining it, that'd be great.

What's the benefit of mixing the Light LME/DME in your recipe? Was it just to add more extract without opening another container of liquid?

If you have the candi already, I don't think you can darken it. Heres an good how-to on making your own candi from the wiki:
How to make Candi Sugar - Home Brewing Wiki

And yes.. I usded DME so I didn't have to open another container of liquid.

 

[jjp36]

If you have the candi already, I don't think you can darken it. Heres an good how-to on making your own candi from the wiki:
How to make Candi Sugar - Home Brewing Wiki

And yes.. I usded DME so I didn't have to open another container of liquid.

I'm not sure about this, but i think if you melt the rocks down, you should be able to make candi syrup. If your using the clear rocks I think they're just rock candy, which is still sucrose. I am not positive on this, but i see no reason why it wouldn't work.

 

[syd138]

I'm not sure about this, but i think if you melt the rocks down, you should be able to make candi syrup. If your using the clear rocks I think they're just rock candy, which is still sucrose. I am not positive on this, but i see no reason why it wouldn't work.

It could work.. but if you are going to try to break the rocks down.. you might as well just use table sugar.

Either use the light Candi.. or make your own Amber/Dark Candi using table sugar.

How much does 10lbs of sugar cost.. $4?

Its worth it.. it'll take you 20 minutes to do.

 

[jwyse]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll try making my own amber/dark candi and save the clear candi for another brew.

I think I'll go with Schnitzengiggle's suggestion and add caravienne also. And Syd suggested dropping the special B down to 4 oz. How do these amounts look?

3.3 lbs. Munton's Light Liquid Extract
3.3 lbs. Briess Pilsen Light Liquid Extract
4 oz. Special B
4 oz. Caramel Munich
4 oz. Caramel Vienne
1 lb. homemade amber or dark candi sugar
1.25 oz. Styrian Golding pellets (2% AA), 60min
1.25 oz. Hallertau (German) pellets (3% AA), 60min
White Labs Abbey Ale yeast, WLP530

I'm getting pretty excited to see how this is going to turn out!

 

[jjp36]

Looks like it should be pretty tasty!

It could work.. but if you are going to try to break the rocks down.. you might as well just use table sugar.

I agree. I suggested using table sugar in the 2nd post. I was just saying he could probably make candy sugar with the clear candy he already had just for the sake of not wasting it.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

Go for it! I think you'll have a tasty brew, and to add, if you haven't used WLP530 before, be prepared for a volcano! Blow-off tube is a necessity. My dubbel using WLP540 volcanoed for 2 days, I had to run to the hardware for some blow-off hose, just glad I didn't need to mop the ceiling!:rockin:

Oh and you might want to look into allowing your brew to rise to room temps, pitch at about 60 degrees and let it rise into the mid to upper 70's classic belgian brewing technique.

 

[jwyse]

Go for it! I think you'll have a tasty brew, and to add, if you haven't used WLP530 before, be prepared for a volcano! Blow-off tube is a necessity. My dubbel using WLP540 volcanoed for 2 days, I had to run to the hardware for some blow-off hose, just glad I didn't need to mop the ceiling!:rockin:

Wow, thanks for the heads-up. My 3 brews so far have been with dry yeast (Munton's... I'm done with that stuff) starting in a 6.5 gal bucket for primary ferm, then moving to a 5 gal carboy for secondary. Given the extra 1.5 gal of headspace in my bucket, do you still think a blowoff tube will be necessary? How does one attach a sufficient blowoff tube with a bucket? My lid just has the small hole w/grommet for an airlock.

Oh and you might want to look into allowing your brew to rise to room temps, pitch at about 60 degrees and let it rise into the mid to upper 70's classic belgian brewing technique.

So what's "room temperature" to you? It's June in SC (er... it's June everywhere else too, as far as I know ), and I'm trying to be "energy-conscious," so room temperature is mid-70s in my house. I'm fermenting in a closet that stays between 65-73 as long as I keep the door closed.

I want to try making a cold box of some sort (like the 'son of fermentation chiller') but haven't gotten around to it yet. I guess I could try putting the bucket/carboy in a Rubbermaid container full of water or something in the meantime.

 

[syd138]

you'll be fine around 70. Don't worry about it.

Make sure to make a yeast starter though.

 

[jjp36]

How does one attach a sufficient blowoff tube with a bucket? My lid just has the small hole w/grommet for an airlock.

This is not my picture, but this is how i set mine up. Just push some silicone tubing over the post in the airlock and run the other end into a container with some sanitizer.

I want to try making a cold box of some sort (like the 'son of fermentation chiller') but haven't gotten around to it yet. I guess I could try putting the bucket/carboy in a Rubbermaid container full of water or something in the meantime.

I usually do the rubbermaid container full of water. I like to start my belgians around 70, then i let them go. The last tripel i did i used the Wyeast 3787 and that got up to around 78-80 when the fermentation was in full swing. Its in secondary now and tastes delicious. Don't be afraid to let the belgian yeasts get a little warmer.

 

[jwyse]

Ah, I've seen that airlock/blowoff setup before and totally forgot about it -- thanks for the reminder. I'll be adding that one to my bag-o-tricks.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

I like to start my belgians around 70, then i let them go. The last tripel i did i used the Wyeast 3787 and that got up to around 78-80 when the fermentation was in full swing. Its in secondary now and tastes delicious. Don't be afraid to let the belgian yeasts get a little warmer.

I beleive I started my Dubbel at 65 left it at that temp for 1 day, then let it rise to room temp, which for me is 78 degrees, probably a little warmer inside the fermenter.

Just bottled it last Sunday (7 week primary, it got stuck, I think poor aeration). The sample was delicious, however, I will let this one bottle condition for at least 8 weeks before giving one a try.

 

[jwyse]

Just bottled it last Sunday (7 week primary, it got stuck, I think poor aeration). The sample was delicious, however, I will let this one bottle condition for at least 8 weeks before giving one a try.

I think patience (or my lack thereof) is the most annoying part of brewing. I'm trying to offset my impatience by planning/brewing more batches, but I think I'm going to end up spending a metric ass-ton on buckets and carboys.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

I think patience (or my lack thereof) is the most annoying part of brewing. I'm trying to offset my impatience by planning/brewing more batches, but I think I'm going to end up spending a metric ass-ton on buckets and carboys.

Patience is the hardest part of the hobby, but it does get easier! I have 2 buckets and 2 secondaries(one of which is dedicated to Apfelwein), I say just use buckets for primaries, they're cheaper and easier to clean. I'm going to buy a third next trip to my LHBS, I am also getting equipment together for AG (allbeit slowly, but surely) and I want to be set up for the occasional 10 gallon batch, so I assume I will definitely need extra primaries.

 

[jwyse]

Well, I think I'm (finally) going to get to brew this dubbel this week. I think I'm going to add 0.5 lb of clear candi sugar in addition to 1 lb of dark candi that I made. According to the Brew Builder, that should push it up a bit to 6.6% ABV without really affecting much else.

I ended up making 2 batches of the candi sugar because I had to throw the first 2-lb batch away. I guess it was way too hot when I poured it out onto the wax paper, and it melted the wax. I think it even screwed up the non-stick coating on the cookie sheet underneath. I bought a silicon pad for the second batch -- MUCH better. Anyway, it was easy to make, and came out pretty dark.

I didn't realize (or forgot) that Brewmasters Warehouse "conveniently" combines the grains in a single bag. I ordered 1 lb each of cara-vienne, cara-munich, and special B so I'd have some for future batches, and I got one 3-lb bag of mixed grains. I'll try to stir them up a bit and hope that they're uniformly mixed (they all look the same to me). At least the 1:1:1 ratio matches what I have in my recipe.

Are there any other styles/recipes that could use equal parts cara-vienne, cara-munich, and special B? I think my grains might get too old by the time this dubbel is ready and I can decide whether I like the recipe.