Beer does strange things after bottling.

[DanMurphy]

I'm kind of new to home brewing and still am trying to work out some kinks. I've gotten 5 batches over with but I have noticed something that happens with almost every batch. When I started making my own beer I got a supply of Grolsch-style pint bottles for bottling. Ever since my first batch, and in virtually every one since then, I have a troubling number of bottles that develop a foamy head within a day of bottling, and those bottles almost always end up being flat when I open then after a couple weeks. The bottles that don't get that foamy head are usually properly carbonated and give a noticeable "pop" when flipping the lid. The foamy bottles almost always have a distinct "ring" after the foamy head goes down after a few days, and are flat when opening and pouring. The first time it happened I chalked it up to being new, but by now it had become a predictable and annoying problem, even with different recipes. I have become very careful to wash and sanitize the bottles, rubber seals, flip tops and all my equipment. I just can't shake that flat beer gremlin. what is going on here? I have included a picture of a typical bottle that has that telltale ring in the neck that tells me ahead of time that bottle is dead. Am I the only one with this?https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=327702&stc=1&d=1451960332

 

[JLeuck64]

Early on in my home brewing hobby I experienced the similar. Thought I was pretty good at cleaning but still ended up with funk in some bottles. Here is what I changed to get rid of the funk:
When i am finished with a bottle I rinse it several times then pour about a 1/4 inch of a solution of water with Oxyclean in the bottom. I let those bottles sit on the counter for days until I get about a dozen or so (sometimes more!) Then I clean them using a bottle brush that I modified. I basically cut the round finger hole off the end of my bottle brush so I can chuck it up in a cordless drill. Run it in the bottle for a bit then rinse it well. I run all of my bottles through the dishwasher on the power scrub cycle and with the sanitizer option setting. Then I put them into a storage box upside down until I am ready to fill them again. On bottling day I sanitize every bottle in Starsan and let them dry on the bottling tree.

Ever since I started doing things this way the funk is no more ( ;
HTH

 

[flars]

Looks like a krausen ring from the yeast using up the priming sugar. These bottles most likely have defective seals releasing the carbonation CO2.

Do you primary your beers until they clear? Lot of sediment in the krausen ring.

 

[unionrdr]

I was thinking bad seals myself. Try replacing the seals on the bad bottles & see if that helps. No telling how long those bottles sat until you bought them?

 

[BrewSavage]

Seals and maybe adjust wire cage just a bit to get tighter clamp.

For a long time all my grolsch style bottles had ceramic caps, but now all the new ones coming in have the plastic caps and I wonder about the cap integrity over time.

 

[unionrdr]

Besides the sites that sell the ones with plastic stoppers versus ceramic.

 

[mrgrimm101]

Could you try it with standard 12oz bottles? I've never had this issue, but I never use the Grolsch style bottles. I don't trust them

 

[DanMurphy]

I kinda suspected that there might be a bad seal, but it always seems tight when I close them, and there is no real way to tell just by looking at them if the seal is good. I got the flip top bottles because they looked cool, but I am seriously considering switching to regular bottles; cleaning the tops and dealing with the seals is really starting to not seem worth it.

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

Could you try putting a balloon or a condom over the top of one of the bottles? If it inflates after priming you'll know where your problem is (assuming it puts out enough CO2 to inflate it).
Just a thought.

 

[andy6026]

Could you try putting a balloon or a condom over the top of one of the bottles? If it inflates after priming you'll know where your problem is (assuming it puts out enough CO2 to inflate it).
Just a thought.

That's a very good idea. I was going to suggest letting it bottle condition upright in a bucket of water to see if you get any bubbles occasionally coming up, but for obvious reasons - your idea is far better.

To be honest though, I'd probably forgo the whole exercise in favor of new bottles - I'm 99% sure it's the seals leaking. The krausen at the top suggests there's enough sugar in there to carbonate them and yet being flat suggests that the carbonation has escaped. It's either leaky seals or a magical gremlin.

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

New bottles might not be necessary, I think they sell just the seals for the swing tops.

Granted, you'll sleep better with regular crown caps.

 

[Pantherjon]

New bottles might not be necessary, I think they sell just the seals for the swing tops.

Granted, you'll sleep better with regular crown caps.

Sure do! Right here!

 

[unionrdr]

That's what I was referring to in my post, anyway. Cheap & easy to replace.

 

[mattdee1]

Never really understood the allure of the flip-top bottles, myself. Using a good bench capper is hardly any more labor-intensive than fiddling with the linkage on a flip-top, you can rest assured that it will seal properly every time, and it’s easier to toss bottle caps into a bowl of sanitizer before use than it is to agonize over whether or not you’ve adequately sanitized the plug and seal on a Grolsch bottle. Plus, you reserve the option to select different cap colors and styles based on what is in the bottle.

 

[brew_darrymore]

Never really understood the allure of the flip-top bottles, myself. Using a good bench capper is hardly any more labor-intensive than fiddling with the linkage on a flip-top, you can rest assured that it will seal properly every time, and it’s easier to toss bottle caps into a bowl of sanitizer before use than it is to agonize over whether or not you’ve adequately sanitized the plug and seal on a Grolsch bottle. Plus, you reserve the option to select different cap colors and styles based on what is in the bottle.

I don't use a capper as I don't have the space to store one more tool plus loads of caps that you have to replace with every batch. Swing tops are more convenient for me, never had a leaking seal so far.

 

[Firewalker11]

It looks like an infection to me. I had one a few brews back and I was lazy, didn't remove the gaskets and clean them, just dunked the Grolsch bottles in Starsan and called it a day. All of them but one were fine but that last one got an infection and was off on the flavor with floaties in the mug.

99% of my bottling is crown caps but that few I bottle up in swing tops are usually for consumption within the week now so that I don't have to fool with the gaskets too often.

 

[GHBWNY]

Being seal failure, it's either [the quality of] the gaskets and/or bottles, or the lack of precision in making the porcelain/plastic top, or maybe your method. I have to agree with the suggestions to, at the very least, replace the gaskets (with good quality ones). When closing the top, make sure the gasket is seated squarely as you increase pressure; they sometimes have a tendency to slide to one side. And that there is adequate tension in the bail. If it were me, I'd do half a batch with traditional crowns with a good-quality capper. Then go whichever way gives you the most success.

 

[mrgrimm101]

I don't use a capper as I don't have the space to store one more tool plus loads of caps that you have to replace with every batch. Swing tops are more convenient for me, never had a leaking seal so far.

To each their own. My wing capper takes up almost no space. Plus caps are cheap..I just buy a bag every so often and eventually I have a ziploc freezer bag with several batches worth of caps. They're all different colors by now, but I will sort through them if I really care to color code.

 

[IslandLizard]

Infection ==> loud pops on opening, gushers, even bottle explosions
Bad lid seals ==> flat beer, no pops

From that picture it certainly looks like there's not enough tension on the cap. The plasticy seal should be more compressed, so the edge almost lies on top of the rim. Sometimes flipping the seal over (so the indentation is toward the cap) helps to obtain a better seal. If the seals are too old (permanent indentation) or very hard you get the same problem, get new seals. The old-fashioned softer "rubber" ones were the best, but I haven't seen those in years.

If needed, adjust the cage to give you more tension. It's a bit of trial and error, you'll get a feel how much effort it takes to close and open a well sealed one. Just be careful you don't break the necks off!

Also inspect the white (plastic) caps. Some have a high ridge across, from the molding process. That could also cause gas seepage. File or sand it even with the rest of the cap.

Don't store the empty bottles with the clamp down, it deforms the seal. Just loosely, un-engaged, or off with a piece of aluminum foil crimped over the opening to keep dust out.

 

[Queequeg]

I would say seals and possibly oxidation during bottling or resulting from a bad seal, because krausen is an indication of a new growth phase which will only occur aerobically

 

[PapaO]

I went with these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Grolsch-EZ-...H_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a32f6e8a4&afsrc=1
They cost more but have free shipping so for cost to have no leaks there priceless.

 

[IslandLizard]

I went with these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Grolsch-EZ-...H_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a32f6e8a4&afsrc=1
They cost more but have free shipping so for cost to have no leaks there priceless.

Holy cow! At $20 they better work for the rest of the century.

 

[PapaO]

Holy cow! At $20 they better work for the rest of the century.

NB 2.29 for 25 = 9.16 for 100 + 7.99 shipping = 17.15 so for 2.85 You get bottles that don't leek.

 

[Gavin C]

Am I the only one with this?https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=327702&stc=1&d=1451960332

The picture points to one or more of the following errors.
1. Bottling before fermentation has completed.
2. Infection in the bottle resulting a bacterial/wild-yeast induced fermentation
3. Over-priming

With all of the above excess carbonation will occur. If the beers are flat this equates to improperly sealing bottles and prevents bottle bombs.

A bad seal can allow air in potentiating number 2.

In short bottles should not look like this. If you open one and it's over carbed you know you have one or more of the above going on. 1 and 3 are easy to eliminate as variables leaving 2 (infection) the likliest scenario in this type of situation.

I've seen vids of homebrewers opening gushers or describing beers with floaties as normal. It's not normal. A ring on the bottle is not normal (unless you prime with DME a tiny faint ring can be normal). A flat bottle is not normal. I'd ditch the flip tops. They don't seem to be working for you.

Solution
1. Make sure through visual clues and data that fermentation is complete before bottling
2. Use well cleaned and sanitized bottles and caps/flip tops for packaging
3. Use the correct amount of priming sugar.

Best of luck in your future brews.

 

[ten80]

I kinda suspected that there might be a bad seal, but it always seems tight when I close them, and there is no real way to tell just by looking at them if the seal is good. I got the flip top bottles because they looked cool, but I am seriously considering switching to regular bottles; cleaning the tops and dealing with the seals is really starting to not seem worth it.

I've been using Grolsch-type bottles for years with no issues. I replace the seals when they start to crack and always check that each bottle closes tightly. The metal cap wire sometimes bends a bit after multiple uses, leading to a less-than-tight seal.

The oxyclean soak + brush on powerdrill method of cleaning works great for me. Following cleaning, I rinse the bottles with fresh water, then sanitize with starsan and put them in a box lined with a trash bag for storage. I figure that several weeks of contact with Starsan and storage in a sealed bag provides extra insurance that the bottles are well-sanitized.

I always re-sanitize with Starsan immediately before filling and make certain to get sanitizer solution on the rubber seal, even flipping it up to get the underside. No contamination issues since I began using this method.

I have over 100 swing-top bottles that have seen 4-10+ refills with no problems.