Bazooka screen + false bottom = stuck sparge

[Brewtus_Maximus]

Hello brew folks!

So I recently upgraded my mash tun to a 10 gallon stainless pot with a false bottom and bazooka screen (Bayou Classic). I previously was working with a 10 gallon Rubbermaid mash tun, and decided to upgrade because I don't like the idea of plastic.

When I did my first brew with the new equipment, I used both the bazooka and the false bottom, and ended up with a stuck sparge. I was able to unclog the screen by blowing air into the ball valve with a turkey baster. But I had to keep repeating this process, as the sparge kept getting reclogged every 30 seconds or so (it was a HUGE PITA!!). The false bottom, which was located above the bazooka screen, filtered out the "bulk" material, and allowed the "fine" grains of the mash to go to the bottom, where they clogged the bazooka screen. It seems then that it was the combination of the two that contributed the most to the stuck sparge. In the future I plan on using just the false bottom for mashing. I have heard that people really like the bazooka tubes for mashing. But for now, I think I am going to use it mostly for straining hops from the boil. I ordered a dip tube to put under the false bottom instead of the bazooka screen. This makes a lot more sense, and should decrease the amount of dead space in the mash tun.

In my old mash tun I used a copper manifold to filter the grains and I never ran into a stuck sparge. I think that a dip tube in combination with just the false bottom should resolve the problem on my new setup.. But I am also wondering if anyone else here has tried to use a false bottom in combo with a bazooka screen in the past with good results. After all, we could be incorrect in our reasoning as to why the sparge got stuck.. It could have been too fine of a grind, or something else that caused the works to "gum up".

 

[Indian_villager]

....How did you rig both into the vessel? Would you please share pics?

 

[nealperkins]

You have to take a little care in stirring your mash and trying not to force some of the grain through the screen. I use your set up and have had great results for a long time. I would not give up on your idea. The only time I have experienced what you experienced was when I have double ground the wheat malt.

 

[Brewtus_Maximus]

Here are some pics for you Indian_villager. As you can see the false bottom is kinda tall, which leaves plenty of room to have the bazooka screen installed underneath it.


It is interesting that Neal has used a bazooka with a false bottom and not had any problems. I had it fail twice (consecutively).. The first mash was stuck so bad I had to throw it out.. So I dont know if I am willing to give the combo another try or not.. Gonna try the dip tube I ordered on my next batch (in combo with false bottom). Probably will just use the bazooka screen to filter hops from the boil in the future..

 

[Indian_villager]

Interesting. I see no reason for this to clog. When I first switched to a Flasebottom I was getting stuck due to over crushing. How tight is your crush? Are you using rice hulls as well?

 

[Brewtus_Maximus]

No, not using rice hulls. I should have taken a picture of the bazooka screen after the mash. It had very fine grain on it, almost like bread dough.. I used 0.038 as the gap setting for the grind. Maybe I mixed too much with the mash paddle..

 

[Brewtus_Maximus]

So here are a couple pictures of the installed dip tube that I will be using under the false bottom (instead of the bazooka screen). While draining it makes a nice whirlpool, and also decreases the dead space by about 0.5 gal or more. I may try using rice hulls to reduce the possibility of a stuck sparge the next go around. Thanks for the advice!



The IPA that I brewed (the stuck sparge this thread is about) just went into the keg. Turned out really well despite having a bit of trouble controlling temps (tried to do step mash). I used almost 1.0 lbs of hops in total (5 gallon batch), including a 6 oz dry hop.. Smells awesome!

 

[wilserbrewer]

I would guess that the flour that makes it past the FB is clogging the bazooka.

There are no hulls under the FB, so the bazooka doesn't function as intended.

I would pick one or the other, or use a coarser crush that works?

 

[Brewtus_Maximus]

I would guess that the flour that makes it past the FB is clogging the bazooka.

There are no hulls under the FB, so the bazooka doesn't function as intended.

I would pick one or the other, or use a coarser crush that works?

Yeah we were also thinking that the bazooka screen clogged by the same mechanism you described here. For now I'm going to use the FB with a dip tube attached to the ball valve underneath it (pictures on previous post) instead of the bazooka. I've read that a FB is the better option over a bazooka if you are going to be fly sparging, which I am going to be doing, so the FB makes more sense.

On a side note, I've also read that dip tubes help to increase mash efficiency by removing the denser wort (higher sugar concentration) that sinks to the bottom of the kettle.

 

[SteveH43055]

I think I may use just the false bottom to mash this time, unless someone can talk me into a better solution, though I don't like how high it sits in my kettle.

I've had a similar problem with my 16 gal bayou classic when trying to mash in kettle using the false bottom/bazooka tube combo. Never had the problem in my cooler build so I was quite displeased after loading it near capacity with 30+lbs of grain into it. Had to settle for removing the FB (messy, wasn't easy and got bent) followed by unscrewing the bazooka in hot mash conditions (some 1st degree burns) then vorlaufed the crap out of it before moving back to the igloo to sparge. The second time (smaller grain bill) I just dumped the whole kettle in the cooler (barely fit and a few more burns lol) but I saved the beer and that was the important part!

I now find myself sitting and contemplating another large grain bill to mash in the kettle with great trepidation. The dip tube may be a good solution in the future but I'm brewing this weekend and seeking another work around for this issue in the short term. Any suggestions?

 

[wilserbrewer]

I would try a mash with just the bazooka. No real good reason why, I'm just a braid guy.


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[barnaclebob]

I tried using that same false bottom but the mash was too thick above it, almost 2 gallons of dead space. After i took it out i haven't had any problems with the bazooka screen only.

 

[SteveH43055]

Thanks, I appreciate the response. When I unstuck it I noticed that the grain was also clogging the holes of the FB, maybe the bazooka solo is the way to go then. I'll post an update one way or another after the brew session tomorrow, fingers crossed

 

[Brewtus_Maximus]

I used the false bottom with the dip tube on my last brew. I didn't get a stuck sparge, but I did get some particulate matter in my run off. I used just the bazooka tube when I boiled, and it strained the particles out well (think the whole hops helped clear it too).

I am very interested to find out how your mash turns out with just the bazooka screen. I have considered switching to a copper manifold and ditching the false bottom.. But if you get good efficiency with just the bazooka, I don't see why that wouldn't be the way to go. Are you fly sparging or batch sparging? I've heard that when fly sparging with a bazooka tube that channeling might be an issue, but I think as long as you get good distribution of sparge water over the grain bed it should just work fine.


Cheers!

 

[SteveH43055]

I went with just the bazooka using nearly 40lb of grain and mashing in kettle with a single batch sparge. It worked fairly well, it stuck with a few gobs of flour on the first vorlauf run but after I cleared that it flowed pretty freely. I had quite a bit of coarse grain at first, perhaps the size of rough ground pepper, but after I did a vorlauf with about 3-4 gallons total (~1 gal each run) it cleared up nicely. I didn't have any tunneling issues but also had a mighty bed of grain to work with and kept my ball valve less than 50% open except to clear that initial clog. I had nearly 2 gallons of trub and hop left over after the boil and the bazooka also kept it rather well filtered. I'll likely continue with this method and scrap the false bottom unless another use surfaces for it

 

[Brewtus_Maximus]

Glad to hear your bazooka screen worked for 40 lb of grain! Wow you must have been making a big batch (or high gravity)!

So I brewed another IPA on Saturday using just the bazooka screen in the mash tun. It worked pretty well! I got ~ 77% efficiency and it didn't get stuck at all. I did, however, notice a BIT of channeling on the grain bed during the fly sparge. There was a "mound" in the middle of the grain bed and it was lower around the perimeter. But I think this may be attributed to the way my sparge manifold distributes the water. Being that I still got good efficiency, I think fly sparging with the bazooka tube works just fine. Eventually I will probably build a copper manifold.. But for now I am gonna stick with the bazooka. :rockin:


I now use the false bottom during the boil to filter out the hops when transferring to the fermenter.. Worked great for that!

Cheers bro!

 

[Brewtus_Maximus]

Little bit of an update on this thread if anyone is interested...

I have done 2 more brews since my last post here using just the bazooka screen for mashing. With a 10 minute mash out and 50 minutes of fly sparging, I hit almost 90% efficiency on each brew. I also changed the grind setting to 0.025 and ran the grain through the mill twice (which I'm sure helped to bump efficiency). The bazooka screen never clogs, but it does look like I get channeling when fly sparging (around the edges). At near 90% efficiency though, I don't think there's much I need to change with my "current" mash equipment.

I say +1 on using the bazooka screen with fly sparging. On another forum I read that fly sparging with a bazooka will drop your efficiency, but I think it works just fine on smaller batches. :hs:

 

[wilserbrewer]

Your 50 minute fly sparge likely helped to avoid Channeling....interesting to see what a batch sparge would do besides saving a half hour or more
Congrats on your success!


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[Rev2010]

I say +1 on using the bazooka screen with fly sparging. On another forum I read that fly sparging with a bazooka will drop your efficiency, but I think it works just fine on smaller batches. :hs:

I mash in a the typical round Rubbermaid cooler, but I too swear by the bazooka screen. I never get stuck runoff's/sparge's with any of my beers and the only one I need to use ricehulls with to avoid a stuck runoff is my pumpkin ale cause of the puree in the mash. I do wheat beers often with a tight gap setting on my mill and no problems at all. Only ever tried a false bottom once and that's the first time I used the cooler mash tun. Instant stuck sparge. The false bottom apparently wasn't perfectly flat and grains went right underneath and clogged it up. Sent it back and got the $50 refunded and went with a $17 bazooka tube. Couldn't be happier. My efficiency is a quite consistent 81% which I am more than happy with.


Rev.

 

[Brewtus_Maximus]

I got the false bottom as part of the kit that came with my Bayou Classic 10 gallon brew pot, so I don't think I can return it like you did.. Now that I'm not using it for mashing, I use it in the boil pot to strain out the hops. After I'm finished chilling the wort, I drain the pot into my fermenter, and the beer is strained through the bed of whole hops on the false bottom. Straining through the hops not only increases hop aroma, it also works to aerate the wort! I'm sure other folks have tried doing this.. Wouldn't really work if you use pellet hops in the boil. But I thought I'd just throw it out there as an idea!

 

[malhal]

I was using a course mesh bag, fine mesh false bottom (finer than bazooka) and bazooka in an electric mash tun/boiler and also got a stuck sparge, probably also because of the flour blocking something. I suppose the mesh needs to be large enough to let the flour get through and so it gets stuck in the grain next time round the recirculation/vorlauf. Will try just with the bazooka next time but worried about the dead space, I suppose will have to do a batch sparge. Would also like to try a course false bottom and pickup tube and use gravity and tube to get it all out, then can prob do a fly sparge.

 

[augiedoggy]

For what its worth.
I use the same false bottom as the OP in this thread and under it I used a bazooka tube with an even finer stainless braid inside of the bazooka tube and did so for over 3 years with no issues at all and I never had a stuck sparge.. had a couple that were slow but never stuck and even those where rare. I only tried rice hulls once with a wheat beer and found I dont need them... I usually reciculat between 1.5 and 1.8 GPM flow rate through my rims.. recently I replaced the bazooka tube under my false bottom with about 48" of stainless braid because I made my crush a lot finer (credit card thickness) I average 86% and no flow issues on my flow meter with this setup.

I really think the issue lies in the flow rate. I use small 24v dc pumps and start the flow at a very low 1 gpm with pwm speed controllers until things settle for a couple minutes then increase the flow rate in steps to the 100% which ends up pushing 1.5-1.8 gpm total for the mash.

the flour will settle and create a very fine filter bed anyway ... my goal is to keep it out of my small pumps and the fine stainless braided line does that for any fine (or otherwise) grain that gets through in the beginning.

 

[wilserbrewer]

For what its worth.
I use the same false bottom as the OP in this thread and under it I used a bazooka tube with an even finer stainless braid inside of the bazooka tube and did so for over 3 years with no issues at all and I never had a stuck sparge.. had a couple that were slow but never stuck and even those where rare. I only tried rice hulls once with a wheat beer and found I dont need them... I usually reciculat between 1.5 and 1.8 GPM flow rate through my rims.. recently I replaced the bazooka tube under my false bottom with about 48" of stainless braid because I made my crush a lot finer (credit card thickness) I average 86% and no flow issues on my flow meter with this setup.

I really think the issue lies in the flow rate. I use small 24v dc pumps and start the flow at a very low 1 gpm with pwm speed controllers until things settle for a couple minutes then increase the flow rate in steps to the 100% which ends up pushing 1.5-1.8 gpm total for the mash.

the flour will settle and create a very fine filter bed anyway ... my goal is to keep it out of my small pumps and the fine stainless braided line does that for any fine (or otherwise) grain that gets through in the beginning.

Do you use a polyester bag as well? That would keep a lot of particles off the braid and prevent clogging hassles.

 

[augiedoggy]

No I do not use a bag..I have one I bought from you but I've never used it.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ok thanks Auggie,
Perhaps then, as you mentioned your success can be attributed to the reasonable flow rates of your 24v pumps.

Any filter will "clog" or start to block flow if you try and pass more flow than possible.

 

[Brewtus_Maximus]

For what its worth.
I use the same false bottom as the OP in this thread and under it I used a bazooka tube with an even finer stainless braid inside of the bazooka tube and did so for over 3 years with no issues at all and I never had a stuck sparge.. had a couple that were slow but never stuck and even those where rare. I only tried rice hulls once with a wheat beer and found I dont need them... I usually reciculat between 1.5 and 1.8 GPM flow rate through my rims.. recently I replaced the bazooka tube under my false bottom with about 48" of stainless braid because I made my crush a lot finer (credit card thickness) I average 86% and no flow issues on my flow meter with this setup.

I really think the issue lies in the flow rate. I use small 24v dc pumps and start the flow at a very low 1 gpm with pwm speed controllers until things settle for a couple minutes then increase the flow rate in steps to the 100% which ends up pushing 1.5-1.8 gpm total for the mash.

the flour will settle and create a very fine filter bed anyway ... my goal is to keep it out of my small pumps and the fine stainless braided line does that for any fine (or otherwise) grain that gets through in the beginning.

Interesting that you got the same setup (false bottom + bazooka screen) to work. It sounds like this success may be attributed to the use of pumps, as I was only using gravity. Nonetheless, still interesting that you got it to work.

Been a long time since I last brewed, but after using the FB and dip tube a couple times, I switched to using just the bazooka tube, and I got the best results with just that.

Thanks for the input! Cool to see people are still reading this thread (hopefully it has helped some people).

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Why do people do the fly sparge thing? It seems like the downsides (longer time, concerns over channeling, need to mash out, etc.) greatly outweigh the benefits (perhaps higher efficiency).

I'm new to all grain, but the simplicity of batch sparging has me hooked. I can have my first runnings in the kettle warming in about 10 minutes and all of it going in about 20-25. So far I can't see any reason to switch to fly. Why do so many people go that route? I must be missing something.

 

[thekraken]

Why do people do the fly sparge thing? ... I'm new to all grain, but the simplicity of batch sparging has me hooked.

*cough* biab *cough*

 

[malhal]

Why do people do the fly sparge thing? It seems like the downsides (longer time, concerns over channeling, need to mash out, etc.) greatly outweigh the benefits (perhaps higher efficiency).

I'm new to all grain, but the simplicity of batch sparging has me hooked. I can have my first runnings in the kettle warming in about 10 minutes and all of it going in about 20-25. So far I can't see any reason to switch to fly. Why do so many people go that route? I must be missing something.

I think because with batch after you have vorlaufed enough times to get the grain bed filtering clear first-wort then when you pour in the batch water and stir it all up you then have the extra time and effort to get it settle all over again. It sounds like you don't have any issues which is great, but for others it can be frustrating if they got it clear the first time but can't get it the second or it gets stuck. In this case then it could seem advantageous to do fly sparge which only requires setting up the grain bed once, especially if it can be automated with pumps then you can just go away and do something else.

 

[augiedoggy]

I do it just because its easier in my configuration and it works... I average 86% eff. when Im done recirculating I simply turn two 3 way valve handles 90 degrees and turn on my hlt pump and adjust my pump speeds down to about 1 gpm. (40% pump speed on the software I use) This redirects the mash to my BK and at the same time starts depositing the sparge water onto my grainbed to displace the mash .... When I reach my preboil I stop the flow , simple as that... The whole process usually takes less than 15 mins. I'm really just rinsing my grains no vorlouf and no cloudy wort.. and no waiting needed... I believe if I did slow it down I may be able to get higher efficiencies but its plenty high enough as it is.