Basic Cider Questions

[Delaney]

Hi,

I'm about to make my first cider, and I have a few questions. I bought 25 gallons of unpasteurized apple cider, so I don't want to mess it up. I would like to bottle ferment 10 gallons of the cider without the use of sulfites, simply in order to drink the cider sooner. Does this seem too risky? I will be pitching onto Safale US05 lees from an IPA that I made.

Secondly, I would like advice on how much acid blend to add /gallon of cider. I would like to add on the low end of the scale, such that I can add it to taste after primary if need be. Would acid blend affect the amount of time required for bottle conditioning for the cider which I intend to consume young?

I would also like some input as to whether pectin enzyme is a good idea?

Finally, should yeast nutrients be added to a cider?

 

[Randzor]

1. I'd use a does of sulfites, just to stun the natural bugs in the juice... at 10 gallons, its worth the extra 24 hours.
1.5. don't add extra sugar if your using the ale yeast, sugar in aj, is usually in the realm of 5-7% so any extra and you may have to much for that yeast...
2. I'd not add any, especially if you are using straight from the orchard cider, the apples should be pretty balanced. If anything, let it ferment out and then balance to taste. I'm not sure on what it does for bottle conditioning.
3. can be if its really cloudy and your looking for a super clear cider. If you don't care about cloudyness, its not needed.
4. yes yes yes, it will help prevent rhino farts.

 

[Delaney]

So the reason for not adding sulfites would be for a short bottle conditioning, as I would like to drink that portion of it young. It would not be to avoid a 24 hour wait. Is this a recipe for disaster??

 

[Randzor]

I'd think so, but thats my preference as someone who started with wine making, and all wines made from fresh fruit are treated to shock the natural bugs. there is a reason that is a habit again at 10 gallons one extra day is worth it for me, but i'm cheap.

 

[Delaney]

I'd think so, but thats my preference as someone who started with wine making, and all wines made from fresh fruit are treated to shock the natural bugs. there is a reason that is a habit again at 10 gallons one extra day is worth it for me, but i'm cheap.

Uhm...I'm not sure you understand lol. It's a matter of ~ six months, not one day, because if I add sulfites it will taste like **** until then.

I have a large brew kettle that I could heat pasteurize the juice with. Perhaps I should do this and no sulfites?

 

[Randzor]

Are we talking k-meta or camden tablets? I am talking about camden tablets... If you are talking about having a sweet cider, then yes, pasteurize would be the faster and better way to go.

 

[Delaney]

we're talking 1 tsp of 80% potassium sulbate 20% absorbic acid / 5 gallons.

I am doing a dry cider...why would pasteurization be better for sweet meads versus dry meads? that seems nonsensical.

 

[adiochiro3]

Why the rush? "Your patience will be rewarded." (Alton Brown).

 

[Randzor]

Tbh then you don't need to do anything, pitch the yeast and away they go.

 

[mention]

My first batch (5 Gal) of cider is in secondary right now. I didn't add any sulfites, and have had no problems so far.

Sulfites and I don't get along, so I figured I'd try without first and see what happens. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer, and I am ok with losing a batch. If you don't want to risk it, then don't.

 

[Delaney]

Hmmm I think I will heat pasteurize the 10 gallons in my brew kettle.

 

[bernardsmith]

we're talking 1 tsp of 80% potassium sulbate 20% absorbic acid / 5 gallons.

I am doing a dry cider...why would pasteurization be better for sweet meads versus dry meads? that seems nonsensical.

I think it depends: Mead is not cider but the principles are identical. If you are making a sweet wine by producing a must with a very high sugar content then your yeast will likely die of alcohol poisoning before all the sugar has been converted. Mead makers often work this way because (I think) they need a high concentration of honey in order to develop the honey flavors but honey is basically sugar so the starting gravity is higher than the moon. (an SG of 1.120 or thereabouts).

Cider makers typically aim for a far lower sugar content perhaps a gravity of 1.065 (+/-) and the yeast can happily convert all the sugar and hang around waiting for more. That cider will be brut dry. If you simply add sugar to sweeten it the dormant yeast will waken and gobble up that sugar leaving your cider ... drier than dust and filled with CO2. So you have a choice - you can work to remove the vast majority of yeast through aging and racking, and then you stabilize any residual stragglers with K-meta and K-sorbate. A few days after stabilization you can add sugar. The process of stabilization will have prevented those straggler yeasts from budding and so will have prevented them from reproducing. When they die of natural causes they are the last generation of yeast in your wine OR

You can raise the temperature of the cider so that the yeasts die of heatstroke: or in other words, pasteurization. With the yeasts all dead , any sugar you now add will sweeten the cider. SO,

If you want a sweet cider you want to make sure that there are no living yeasts in your wine. If you want a dry cider you don't really care whether there are living yeasts in the wine or not. They have no sugar to eat and so for all intents and purposes the cider is stable and can be bottled.

The one exception might be that you could technically make a sweet cider by adding non fermentable sugars to the dry cider. But that said, I really don't know whether artificial sweeteners are likely to add undesirable flavor notes to cider OR whether a non fermentable sugar chemically changes after a long period in the cider and eventually ferments - creating a bottle bomb.

 

[Delaney]

:smack:
For the love of god people, I do not want to make a sweet cider!!!!!!!

I am suggesting pasteurizing it PRE-FERMENTATION, not to kill fermentation in bottles. I would be doing this simply to reduce the contamination load as a measure to negate not adding sulfites.

And please, don't talk about aromatic compounds. I know all about that. I simply wanted input as to the relative risks of heat pasteurization alone vs treating must with campden tablets in terms of contaminants.

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