bargainfittings.com cam locks disappointment

[BargainFittings]

It really depends on application.

I use the standard C style on my 15 gallon rig hoses and put higher flow 5/8 barbs with D style on my 50 gallon system.

Some people find that the higher flow to work out better for their setups but we sell alot of C camlocks. I have had only a handful of people ask to return them to switch to a D or B setup.

 

[bruin_ale]

I'm very happy with my setup. I'm using the type B with the hose stretched over the threads and I zip-tied them as I was getting a little bit of liquid leaking through the threads (grinding the threads would have solved that, but the zip tie works also).

 

[WPStrassburg]

I'm using the polypropelene type which are the same coupler size for 1/2" and 3/4" sizes. I can use the 3/4" type C coupler over 1/2" silicone with either a 1/2" or 3/4" threaded type A or F for less restriction through the coupler. It takes a bit of work to the the 1/2" ID x 3/4" od silicone over the larger barb, but less than stuffing it over a threaded 90. The stainless fittings have different coupler sizes between the 1/2" and 3/4" series so this is only an option if you want to use the polypropelene.

 

[Bobby_M]

I chose not to carry the type C just in principal (at least for now). As a relatively new vendor I'm trying to only offer products that I would personally use in my brewery and the type C's are just a sad excuse for a solution. Whether you care about max flow or not, just look at the picture. I could understand if you're using thermoplastic tubing which doesn't stretch all that well but with silicone, thread a 5/8" barb into a type D at MINIMUM, but I really like the Type B to street L best in almost all situations.

Of course, like Bargainfittings, I know I'd sell plenty of C's if I put them on the site even if I recommended against it.

 

[cjp4627]

Recirculation for whirlpool is the big one, but I also run the pump full on when moving strike/sparge water and it's more a philosophical desire to not restrict the flow when you don't have to. You might as well just use 3/8" ball valves and tubing since it's cheaper. In fact, why not just get reduced port ball valves.

For real, in practice, it probably doesn't matter much. It won't make your beer better.

This is an extremely inaccurate statement. Frictional losses are cumulative and not based on the most restrictive point in the system. If you changed to a 3/8" system, the dynamic head of the system would skyrocket and the performance would plummet. Spreading information like this is misleading to the community as a whole.

Would it be nice if the ports were bigger? Yes. I have agree with all others though that no matter what, a hose barb will be a restriction in the flow based on the geometry of the joint. It is in no way the responsibility of the vendor or manufacturer to let you know that since you are using silicone tubing that you could use a larger hose barb fitting to reduce frictional loses.

How would you guys like this product if they made the walls of the barbed area extra thin to expand the ID and instead if you bumped the fitting it would snap off and break? Or if the made the OD bigger and the hose you selected wouldn't fit over it, even though it is for a 1/2" tube

? Everything in system design is a compromise and it is up to the designer to determine what parts will work best in his or her system. We are essentially engineering our own brewing systems here and while I would not go as far as to say anyone would need an engineering degree to brew beer, you can not hold anyone accountable for oversights in a system you design on your own.

 

[BargainFittings]

I've made a note on the description in bold red lettering the inner diameter of the C camlocks and a note about the different options.
I'm always happy to talk out options on parts and tell the advantage and disadvantage of different setups.

 

[Bobby_M]

This is an extremely inaccurate statement. Frictional losses are cumulative and not based on the most restrictive point in the system.

Agree

Spreading information like this is misleading to the community as a whole.

I sincerely apologize to the community.

Would it be nice if the ports were bigger? Yes. I have agree with all others though that no matter what, a hose barb will be a restriction in the flow based on the geometry of the joint. It is in no way the responsibility of the vendor or manufacturer to let you know that since you are using silicone tubing that you could use a larger hose barb fitting to reduce frictional loses.

Woah, not quite. The barb integrated into the type C is the MOST restrictive 1/2" barb ID I've come across. I only blame the manufacturer so much as not even trying to enlarge the ID to what would be perfectly acceptable. It's true that everyone needs to evaluate what their needs are and to that end, I'm advocating clear specifications be published. Each vendor will handle it in a slightly different way. Isn't it a value added service to inform a customer of less restrictive options? Yes, of course it is. I've done measured flow rate comparisons between the type C and type B w/street elbow on an otherwise all 1/2" system and the results at 42" of head are 2.5 and 3.5 GPM respectively. The end user should use that information to make a decision for themselves. Hell, get a single sample of both and do the tests yourself.

Also, to be sure that I don't slip up and misinform the community, here's a full breakdown of the options:

Left to right:
Type C - .3" ID (just under 5/16")
Reasonable 1/2" barb - .39" (just over 3/8")
5/8" barb that still accepts even PVC tubing: .47" ID (just under 1/2")

I dare anyone to defend the barb on the type C as completely acceptable and expected (even though everyone can reasonably agree that 1 GPM difference is not going to destroy a brew day).


Wayne, you should also know that I'm not directing any of this towards you. I didn't like the thread's title from the start.

 

[Irrenarzt]

There is only one way to fly with QD's, Swagelok QF8 series. You gotta pay to play...

 

[WPStrassburg]

We're dealing with hose barbs, and therefore will suffer a smaller id through them than the tubing they are designed to connect. It's the nature of the beast they are designed to work with. We're lucky enough to be working with silicone tubing for the most part and can work that over a 5/8" or 3/4" barb, but if you're buying parts without doing your own homework then take what you get for the effort you have put forth. Kudos to the vendors and brewers who have done their homework and posted their findings and specifications, but don't berate a product for being what it is when you haven't researched the details and therefore purchased blindly.

(Off Valentines/Hallmark/Margarita soapbox for the day)

 

[nbolmer]

There is only one way to fly with QD's, Swagelok QF8 series. You gotta pay to play...

Does the QF8 series even have hose barbs? I think you'd need to fit all of your tubing with Barb => NPT

 

[bruin_ale]

Does the QF8 series even have hose barbs? I think you'd need to fit all of your tubing with Barb => NPT

At those prices, buying an extra barb is the least of your worries. YIKES!
I think one pair of those QDs would cost more than I spent for all the camlocks and 3 piece ball valves in my system.

 

[longke]

really happy i read this thread. bobbys video was super helpful

placed my order w pro flo last night

if anyone is interested in buying my poly disconnects. give a holler. but beware of the cross-section will easily clog.

 

[day_trippr]

At those prices, buying an extra barb is the least of your worries. YIKES!
I think one pair of those QDs would cost more than I spent for all the camlocks and 3 piece ball valves in my system.

+1

That's just stupid expensive stuff, and for what gain?

Cheers!

 

[Irrenarzt]

At those prices, buying an extra barb is the least of your worries. YIKES!
I think one pair of those QDs would cost more than I spent for all the camlocks and 3 piece ball valves in my system.

You'd cringe at the prices on the 3 piece ball valves. I won't even bring it up to save you the stress.

 

[Irrenarzt]

Does the QF8 series even have hose barbs? I think you'd need to fit all of your tubing with Barb => NPT

Of course they have barbs. They have everything.

 

[Irrenarzt]

+1

That's just stupid expensive stuff, and for what gain?

Cheers!

They work very well hot or cold. One handed operation is nice when dealing with a hot QD. I don't even have to put on gloves most of the time I'm transferring hoses. I know money is a major consideration and yeah these are the Ferrari of QD's but damn they work good.

 

[day_trippr]

They work very well hot or cold. One handed operation is nice when dealing with a hot QD. I don't even have to put on gloves most of the time I'm transferring hoses.

With female camlocks on my hose ends, I can say all those same points apply.

I know money is a major consideration and yeah these are the Ferrari of QD's but damn they work good.

Price wise, they're more like the Space Shuttle of QDs...

Cheers!

 

[bruin_ale]

agree w/ day_trippr for the most part, although they are a little hard to do with one hand (at least for me). Never had to wear gloves, even when circulating boiling wort.

 

[Bobby_M]

For that price, I could hire the neighbour kid to swap the tubing around every time I brew.

 

[nbolmer]

Of course they have barbs. They have everything.

That's not a QD hosebarb, that's just a hosebarb to straight. I have their whole QD list opened, and see no hosebarb, just every permutation of NPT. It's purely academic, because I'd never buy these. I do have swagelok fittings in my kettles (St. Pats system... back when they made brewing equipment).

 

[Irrenarzt]

You need the above part to tube/QD or tube/stem and you're solid.

The only NPT ones you need are for the ball valves on your kettles. The rest use tube.

Obviously this solution is not for everyone. I never said it was. But some people have Porsches, others have Geo Metros. Just a fact of life...

 

[rack04]

Anyone know what the ID of the barb is on these camlocks?

http://store.proflowdynamics.com/modules/store/Type-C-Coupler-Stainless-Steel_P354C68.cfm

 

[nbolmer]

You need the above part to tube/QD or tube/stem and you're solid.

The only NPT ones you need are for the ball valves on your kettles. The rest use tube.

Obviously this solution is not for everyone. I never said it was. But some people have Porsches, others have Geo Metros. Just a fact of life...

Be that as it may, Porsches are usually better than Geo Metros. I can't find any advantage with these over camloks, can you?

 

[Irrenarzt]

Longevity is the advantage. The Swagelok parts are machined/forged 316 SS and will last upwards of 25 years of use. The camlocks may function as well, but they appear to be cast and therefore will not last as long.

 

[mattd2]

Longevity is the advantage. The Swagelok parts are machined/forged 316 SS and will last upwards of 25 years of use. The camlocks may function as well, but they appear to be cast and therefore will not last as long.

Really for our purposes you actually mean something more like:
Swaglock QDs will last for 1000 years unless you break them by doing something stupid,
Camlocks will last for 992 years unless you break them by doing something stupid

 

[BargainFittings]

Anyone know what the ID of the barb is on these camlocks?

http://store.proflowdynamics.com/modules/store/Type-C-Coupler-Stainless-Steel_P354C68.cfm

The 1/2" sized C is the same one we sell.

0.325" ID

The picture on that link is one of the bigger sizes.

 

[nbolmer]

Really for our purposes you actually mean something more like:
Swaglock QDs will last for 1000 years unless you break them by doing something stupid,
Camlocks will last for 992 years unless you break them by doing something stupid

This.

For the purposes of homebrewing, the difference is price. You're more likely to break anything else in your system before you break a cast stainless fitting. It will probably outsurvive all of us.

 

[AnthonyC]

BTW, a good use for the type C fitting is stepping down to 3/8" from 1/2" for feeding a counterflow chiller. 3/8" silicon tubing fits the 1/2" type C quite well. Then clamp the other end of the tubing to refrigeration tubing on your counterflow chiller.

 

[Dgonza9]

I've made a note on the description in bold red lettering the inner diameter of the C camlocks and a note about the different options.
I'm always happy to talk out options on parts and tell the advantage and disadvantage of different setups.

Well, as the OP I've had some time to reconsider this thread. First off, my issues with priming turned out to have nothing to do with the type C hose barb. Full bore fittings didn't solve these issues. A bottom drain keggle did, although recirculating from my mash tun still takes some work to get going.


Bargainfittings.com is a great outfit and I've bought a lot of stuff from them, even after starting this thread. In fact, in the end, I went to them for a different style camlock and I have no complaints.

I do, however, think it's very cool of them to update the product description so bozos like me will at least have a fighting chance to know what I am ordering and what its limitations are. Some of us tend to be impulse shoppers, or like me, often wind up doing their brewery planning/purchasing on the tail end of a 16 hour day, etc.. needless to say, I've made some interesting purchases, but it's about all the time I get to plan the brewery these days.

Anyway, thanks for adding that description.

 

[jeffmeh]

Dgonza, I'm happy it worked out for you. Perhaps you should get a mod to rename the thread, "Beware the small bore of the type C camlock fittings," lol.

 

[Dgonza9]

Dgonza, I'm happy it worked out for you. Perhaps you should get a mod to rename the thread, "Beware the small bore of the type C camlock fittings," lol.

Will do.

 

[l3asturd]

Pretty sure you can change it yourself. If you can still edit your first post click Advanced and you should be able to change the title. It takes awhile for it to change on the server but I've done it before.

 

[kincade]

Agreed. Bf is hands down one pf the best vendors ive ever dealt with, and this thread makes it sound as though THEIR cam locks are at fault.

 

[Dgonza9]

Agreed. Bf is hands down one pf the best vendors ive ever dealt with, and this thread makes it sound as though THEIR cam locks are at fault.

I changed the title to better reflect the disappointment in the bore of those type C fittings and not the camlocks themselves.

Again, hats off to www.bargainfittings.com for noting in red on their site that the "C" type fittings have a small bore.

Cheers!

 

[day_trippr]

I changed the title to better reflect the disappointment in the bore of those type C fittings and not the camlocks themselves.[...]

Really? My browser doesn't think so...

Cheers!

 

[tasq]

A mod or admin has to do it.

 

[Dgonza9]

A mod or admin has to do it.

I'm only able to change the title of my post, not the title of the thread.

If there's a mod lurking out there who wouldn't mind changing the title for me, much obliged.