Bad Wyeast. What's the deal?

[rjman53]

Has anyone else out there had issues with wyeast. So far I have bought 3 packs and none of them have worked at all. I have use primarily white lab yeast but decided to try out wyeast; it was a total bust. Not one has inflated after breaking the nurtient pack. The first time was an activator pack pitched directly into a wort with a moderate gravity. The other two were propagator packs for which I made starters; but after 72 hours, they yielded no activity. (One, admittedly, was a few months past its prime.) I don't think the shop is mishandling the product; its kept in a cooler. Do I have ridiculously bad luck with this or what?

 

[Got Trub?]

I've never had a bad pack of Wyeast. I've used packs close to a year old that when pitched into a starter worked fine. Fresh packs (1-2 months old) will usually expand within a few hours at 75F. I'd wonder about the shipping from supplier to your source.

GT

 

[remilard]

I've never had a quality problem with white labs or wyeast. I have always used wyeast activators.

Could be bad luck, could be a problem with the shop, could be a problem with your technique. The easiest way to start eliminating causes is to order one online (or buy from a different shop). If you order online this time of year, order from a place that will put an ice pack in (might cost you a dollar extra).

 

[mosquitocontrol]

I've heard for every extra month on the expiration date you should add another 12-24 hours to expect the yeast to bloat the pack.

 

[Revvy]

If you are only going by unsmacked packs as your sign of bad yeast then you are the one who is wrong.

From the horse's mouth.

From the Wyeast FAQ website:

3. Does the package need to be fully swollen before pitching?

No, The package can be pitched before activating, or at anytime during the activation process. The activation process "jump starts" the culture's metabolism, minimizing the lag phase.

Most new brewers are too quick to declare something wrong, especiallyn where yeast is concerned. That comes from reading books written by brewers who started with crappy yeast that came in cakes may have come in the hot cargo hold of a ship and sat on a grocer's shelf for god knows how long. Modern yeast just doesn't crap put like that these days.

Most of the time it is the brewer not giving enough props to the yeast, and declaring yeast dead too soon, and NOT the yeast itself.

Read my rant about how there is really no BADyeast anymore https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/wyeast-d-o-154573/#post1777619

As you can see, you didn't even have to have the pack expand...there's a bunch of similar threads on here, including one fro yesterday where the info was posted from wyyeast.

If you had made starters from them you would have seen how fine your yeast was. The biggest reason I suggest folks make a starter is if you make one you'll have peace of mind.

And you won't be starting an "is my yeast dead" thread in a couple of days.

Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.

You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.

Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.

Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.

Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.

So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.

And most importantly it proves to you that your yeast is HEALTHY, so you won't think something is wrong with your beer during fermentation.

If yeast can be harvested from a 45 million year old block of amber, then you can see how hardy they are and you shouldn't be so quick to discount yeast from a modern yeast lab.

Don't be so quick to count the little buggers out next time.

 

[Revvy]

Also, age isn't a factor either. Bobby M did a test on year old stored yeast here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/testing-limits-yeast-viability-126707/

And my LHBS cells outdated tubes and packs of yeast dirt cheap 2-3 dollars each and I usually grab a couple tubes of belgian or other interesting yeast when I am there and shove it in my fridge. and I have never had a problem with one of those tubes.

I usually make a starter but I once pitched a year old tube of Belgian High Gravity yeast directly into a 2.5 gallon batch of a Belgian Dark Strong, and after about 4 days it took off beautifully.

With any stored, old yeast you just need first to apply the "sniff test" if it smell bad, especially if it smells like week old gorilla poop in a diaper left on the side of the road in the heat of summer.

Then make a starter, and if it takes off you are fine. The purpose of a starter is to reproduce any viable cells in a batch of yeast....that;s how we can grow a starter form the dregs in a bottle of beer incrementally...and that beer may be months old.

Even if you have a few still living cells, you can grow them....That's how we can harvest a huge starter (incrementally) from the dregs in a bottle of some commercial beers. You take those few living cells and grow them into more.

If yeast can be grown from a tiny amount that has been encased in amber for 45 million years, 45 million year old yeast ferments amber ale we really don't need to sweat too much about how old a yeast is, if it's properly stored.

we just need to think in terms of making starters. Viability isn't really an issue if you are reproducing a lot of healthy cells. Which is what you are doing when you make a starter.....

Really even with "old yeast" if there is a few cells, they will reproduce.

And you mentioned "no activity" with your starters, what is YOUR definition of activity, with starters? There is often little activity with them, rare is a krausen, and bubbling in a starter is as un-informative as it is in fermenters. The only activty with a starter that is important is the creamy band of yeast at the bottom.

 

[rjman53]

And you mentioned "no activity" with your starters, what is YOUR definition of activity, with starters? There is often little activity with them, rare is a krausen, and bubbling in a starter is as un-informative as it is in fermenters. The only activty with a starter that is important is the creamy band of yeast at the bottom.

This was the first time I've made starters and definitely expected some kind of visible activity. Sorry to have put you on another ingnorance induced tirade about yeast Revvy but thanks for the info. Guess I'll refine my method and see how it goes.

 

[Revvy]

This was the first time I've made starters and definitely expected some kind of visible activity. Sorry to have put you on another ingnorance induced tirade about yeast Revvy but thanks for the info. Guess I'll refine my method and see how it goes.

All that matters is what's at the bottom of the starter vessel, NOT what happens or doesn't at the top.

You're not the first new brewer to not trust the yeast, and sadly not the last either. I only wish you all would save YOURSELVES the worry and aggravation, and learn to RdWHAHB...Or at least read some of the other threads with the same issue, BEFORE dumping your yeasts...or thinking something's wrong.