Bad boil, bad hot break, bad taste

[jesseb]

Good afternoon,

Is it possible to have no hot break, even if the wort is boiling? And if so, does this have influence on the final taste? This seems a silly question, but something strange happened last weekend...

When I was checking my boil just before the last hop addition, about 50 min in, I turned the second heating element on. The wort was boiling from only one element, but he why not. As the boil got more aggressive, suddenly a proper hot break accrued. The kind of hot break you have to spray down. I usually use the second element just to get to a boil, and then continue with one. I've noticed that there was not really a break in the beginning of the boil, just a little foam. It was a heavy beer, a SG of 1072.

The two brews before this one also didn't had a proper hot break, but I didn't considered that a problem at the time. They both fermented down to a normal level. Both of them turned out not so good. The taste is not really a infection taste but more like the taste of... wet bread?

So under the influence of more heat, even if the wort is already boiling, is it possible to trigger a hot break? Or is it possible that my definition of a boil isn't right and I didn't had a good boil at all? And is it possible that this influences the final taste?

Thanks,

Jesse

 

[matt2778]

What base malt did you use? I don't get much hot break when I use mo for base

 

[IloveWorts]

What bad taste are you getting? Does the hot break depend on what malts your using? And is it essential to the process to have a hot break?

 

[jesseb]

What base malt did you use? I don't get much hot break when I use mo for base

Mostly pilsner malt, some munich and wheat. It was a kit so they are quite secretive about the ratios.

What bad taste are you getting? Does the hot break depend on what malts your using? And is it essential to the process to have a hot break?

You mean the taste of the two earlier failed batched? I don't know, not really a infection taste. The best way to put it is a bit of a malt flavour, almost like the taste of bread but a bit more fruity and funky. They where both a SMash beer with Viena malt and Simcoe first and then Styrian Goldings as hops.

I think the hot break does depend on the recipe, but I'm guessing this only influences the intensity. Still strange that is does occur so late in the boil.

Is it essential to have a hot break?

 

[oceanic_brew]

There's an interesting podcast from Beersmith about the importance of maintaining a long rigorous boil and goes beyond the benefit of just the hot break.

Since hearing it I've been upping my boil intensity and feel that has played a role in improving my beers.

I should note that I seal my beer off in a corny keg for a hop stand and "no-chill" so a rigorous long boil to drive off DMS, I feel, is required.

http://beersmith.com/blog/2016/03/0...th-dr-charlie-bamforth-beersmith-podcast-121/

 

[Hanglow]

The hot break is not the sudden surge of foam that occurs part way into the boil - it is a common misconception that this is so, I don't really know why either . the hot break will become visible depending on a number of factors - boiler size and shape/vigour of boil/ boil pressure, wort agitation etc. Usually between 60 and 90 minutes for homebrew coppers, which is why a lot of older brewing literature mention 90 minute boils or boil until the break.

A good hot break will mean cooked proteins will have collided and stuck together, therefore they will more easily floc out resulting in a more haze stable beer.

 

[jesseb]

There's an interesting podcast from Beersmith about the importance of maintaining a long rigorous boil and goes beyond the benefit of just the hot break.

Since hearing it I've been upping my boil intensity and feel that has played a role in improving my beers.

I should note that I seal my beer off in a corny keg for a hop stand and "no-chill" so a rigorous long boil to drive off DMS, I feel, is required.

http://beersmith.com/blog/2016/03/0...th-dr-charlie-bamforth-beersmith-podcast-121/

I will check the podcast out. I guess it is back to the drawing tables again. One heating element is just enough to keep an 5 gal boil going, but two elements is way too much. Perhaps some way to frequently switch the second element on/off.

The hot break is not the sudden surge of foam that occurs part way into the boil - it is a common misconception that this is so, I don't really know why either . the hot break will become visible depending on a number of factors - boiler size and shape/vigour of boil/ boil pressure, wort agitation etc. Usually between 60 and 90 minutes for homebrew coppers, which is why a lot of older brewing literature mention 90 minute boils or boil until the break.

A good hot break will mean cooked proteins will have collided and stuck together, therefore they will more easily floc out resulting in a more haze stable beer.

So theoretically, it is possible to boil for 60 min without a full/complete hot break? I knew the foaming isn't the whole break, I saw it more of a tipping point before the rest of the break is happening.

Thanks for the tips and knowledge.

 

[meatcleaver]

The best way to put it is a bit of a malt flavour, almost like the taste of bread but a bit more fruity and funky.

this sounds like a yeast/fermentation issue to me.
what yeast did you use?
did you rehydrate/make a starter?
ferm temp/schedule?
did you fine with gelatin, cold crash or rack to secondary?

 

[jesseb]

this sounds like a yeast/fermentation issue to me.
what yeast did you use?
did you rehydrate/make a starter?
ferm temp/schedule?
did you fine with gelatin, cold crash or rack to secondary?

Could be. I used US-05 and did rehydrate it. Fermented at 20C or 68F. After primary I cold crashed it in a secondary bucket near freezing temp for a few weeks. The beer itself is perfectly clear.

 

[ncbrewer]

I wonder if you were not really getting a boil, but just a simmer???

 

[jesseb]

I wonder if you were not really getting a boil, but just a simmer???

Yeah I think that was the case. But I'm still curious if that is the source of the bad taste...