Are you all alcoholics?

[gridder]

That would be like me going on a gun enthuisiast forum and ask them if they were all killers. Or stopping in on an RV forum and ask if they were all trailer trash. How about on a cooking forum? Shoud we think they are all fatties?

I actually think it is a fair question, even if it wasn't asked in the most delicate fashion. I may be hypervigilant about the issue since there are a lot of alcoholics in my family, but I would imagine that the risk of becoming an alcoholic when making beer is your hobby is something that everyone should be able to look at square in the face. I am not willing to say "Not me, never -- no way." Almost no one starts out thinking that they are going to become an alcoholic, and I try to keep that in mind.

In addition, a lot of people seem to think that if you can scrape yourself off the couch every morning and make it to work then you don't have a problem. Alcohol isn't only a problem if your life starts turning to sh*t. Lots of people have dependency issues with it and wouldn't fit that criteria.

 

[BenjaminR]

bwahahahaha!

Would alcoholics even care to take the time to brew? Ever seen an alcoholic that only drinks craft beer?

I'm going to take a wild guess and venture to say probably all the members on this forum are smart enough to be semi responsible and have their crap together enough to not be alcoholics.

 

[gridder]

It is interesting to me that most people seem to want to portray alcoholics as bums, or homeless people, or people who couldn't get their crackers together enough to make a homebrew. My FIL is a dual PhD who just retired from a distinguished career and is a drunk. My mother was president of a regional trade association and very highly thought of in her field and was a drunk. I also know lawyers, nurses, and professors (very popular occupation for drunks) who are alcoholics by all but the most ridiculous definition of alcoholic. So seriously people, don't kid yourselves.

 

[mordantly]

whatever it takes so that i may sleep like a baby, i don't mind.

 

[DeathBrewer]

I actually think it is a fair question, even if it wasn't asked in the most delicate fashion. I may be hypervigilant about the issue since there are a lot of alcoholics in my family, but I would imagine that the risk of becoming an alcoholic when making beer is your hobby is something that everyone should be able to look at square in the face. I am not willing to say "Not me, never -- no way." Almost no one starts out thinking that they are going to become an alcoholic, and I try to keep that in mind.

In addition, a lot of people seem to think that if you can scrape yourself off the couch every morning and make it to work then you don't have a problem. Alcohol isn't only a problem if your life starts turning to sh*t. Lots of people have dependency issues with it and wouldn't fit that criteria.

I personally don't think that brewing beer has ANYTHING to do with alcoholism. It is SO much easier and less expensive to go buy a 12-pack of beer or a bottle of vodka than to spend day after day performing art and science. Even extract brewers think it's fun, or they would just go buy something to get themselves drunk.

I suppose the exception could be the crowd you hang with, such as the fact that I'm going to a huge event on Saturday at a local brewery. Wait...that doesn't have much to do with homebrewing...except that there will be a few homebrews there, but that's not what the event is about...so, uh, yeah, homebrewing has nothing to do with alcoholism.

 

[DeathBrewer]

bwahahahaha!

Would alcoholics even care to take the time to brew? Ever seen an alcoholic that only drinks craft beer?

I'm going to take a wild guess and venture to say probably all the members on this forum are smart enough to be semi responsible and have their crap together enough to not be alcoholics.

Just because you are semi responsible and have your crap together doesn't mean you are not an alcoholic.

I have quite a few family members that are alcoholics...they've been operating with mortgages, pets, children, families, jobs, businesses, etc. for 40+ years all the while being TRUE alcoholics.

 

[hbomb]

I've scored some great gear from brewers who had to quit drinking...

 

[ThreeDogsNE]

Once again, the core issue with alcoholism is a disease that compels people to consume alcohol despite adverse consequences. It's a disease, not a moral lapse or failure of judgment. It is a disease that is defined, like most diseases, by people with medical expertise in that field. This ain't some moral relativism "if it feels good it can't be bad" kind of ****. It is a progressive disease that kills people. If you have the disease, you have the choices of 1) treating it by abstaining from alcohol with whatever support that requires (AA, whaever), or 2) living with the disease and hoping you die of something else and not it while you are drinking and probably pretending that you don't have a problem. Diabetics are also good at denial about their disease, and plenty of them pay the price with strokes, MIs, kidney failure, loss of legs, etc. God only know what which will hit which person. The fact that you know someone who got away with not treating it doesn't improve the odds for you. There are plenty of functional alcoholics, just like there are functional poorly controlled diabetics-for a while. Unfortunately, all too often the piper will be paid. Both are killer diseases, and deserve to be taken seriously, not dismissed with a laugh and a bull**** homemade redefinition of the disease that feels good to you.

Unfortunately, odds are at least 8% and probably more of us are or will be alcoholic. If those questions hit home for you, that sucks for you....but please try to be honest with yourself and others, do the right thing, and find a different hobby than this one.

If not, brew on.

 

[Photopilot]

Maybe that is why the federal government has enacted laws limiting my ability to drink.

 

[steinsato]

In my experience your not an alcoholic unless you have bottles of vodka hid around the house.

 

[Goatey]

Alcoholism is a very difficult concept to get your mind around. I currently work at a psychiatric treatment facility where I work with dually-diagnosed young adults. I've also spent time at a Homeless Outreach and a Juvenile Drug Treatment Program. I by no means consider myself an expert, but I can lay out some of the things I've seen and experienced. Most of the people I help treat have a co-existing substance abuse problem.

For one, there are the blatant alcoholics who consume large amounts (30 pack a day, a liter of vodka, ect. ect.) and it causes great pain in their life. Many of these people are unable to have "just one" or maybe even "just two". They often begin to drink as soon as they wake up because they're trying to not go into withdraw.

These are very often the addicts that spend their days looking for some way to feel different and "high". Very often they stop drinking alcohol and within a few months they're addicted to prescription pain killers and so on and so forth.

There are also the binge drinkers who are sober most days of the week, however on Saturday night they're downing more alcohol than most down in a year. This is just as destructive because they frequently get black out drunk.

My question, is what about people in the middle? I've maintained about a twelve pack a week for 2-3 years now. I'll have 1 or 2 most nights of the week and then on a friday I'll have 4-6. Would I be considered an alcoholic? I frequently drink enough to get a little buzz but at the end of the night I'm able to fall asleep sober. Friday is my "night to party" though my party usually involves my girlfriend and I watching returns of the Sopranos or listening to my record player.

I don't really work with people like this at my job. Obviously people that drink this much don't think they have a problem and are able to refrain if absolutely necessary.

One more thing. Alcoholics do come from all walks of life. I've interacted with alcoholics that would scrounge up two bucks to get cheap gin and be intoxicated by 8:30 in the morning. I've also had the successful businessman that raced to the bar after work to still hit happy hour.

Sorry if this was just a ramble. I feel like we live in a society that is filled with PSAs on all sorts of addictions and vices. Obviously there are people out there that definitely need help, but the rest of us are left questioning ourselves because we enjoy a beer or two after work. Alcohol has never gotten in the way of obligations to my family or job.

Alright, I'll end this ramble.

 

[JefeTheVol]

Once again, the core issue with alcoholism is a disease that compels people to consume alcohol despite adverse consequences. It's a disease, not a moral lapse or failure of judgment. It is a disease that is defined, like most diseases, by people with medical expertise in that field. This ain't some moral relativism "if it feels good it can't be bad" kind of ****. It is a progressive disease that kills people. If you have the disease, you have the choices of 1) treating it by abstaining from alcohol with whatever support that requires (AA, whaever), or 2) living with the disease and hoping you die of something else and not it while you are drinking and probably pretending that you don't have a problem. Diabetics are also good at denial about their disease, and plenty of them pay the price with strokes, MIs, kidney failure, loss of legs, etc. God only know what which will hit which person. The fact that you know someone who got away with not treating it doesn't improve the odds for you. There are plenty of functional alcoholics, just like there are functional poorly controlled diabetics-for a while. Unfortunately, all too often the piper will be paid. Both are killer diseases, and deserve to be taken seriously, not dismissed with a laugh and a bull**** homemade redefinition of the disease that feels good to you.

Unfortunately, odds are at least 8% and probably more of us are or will be alcoholic. If those questions hit home for you, that sucks for you....but please try to be honest with yourself and others, do the right thing, and find a different hobby than this one.

If not, brew on.

You know this as well as I do. Ive seen alcoholics with DM, Hepatitis and HCC...they dont care how bad their disease is, they are going to drink anyway. I applaud your efforts in explaining addiction with reason and evidence to the forum, as well as your 25+ years(im guessing) as an attending physician. But it seems to me, and Im trying to be objective here, that there is an awful lot of denial in this forum about the effects of EtOH.

People without medical/addiction treating experience (like most of us in this forum), should not be commenting on what makes someone an alcoholic or not. Nor should they be commenting on what wikipedia tells them the effects of EtOH are. Laymen spouting the whole, "you're not an alcoholic if you dont ______" or "you are an alcoholic if you _____", is like asking geological questions to a rock climber. Sure he knows how to climb the rock, but he couldnt tell you sh*t about its formation or its history.

No one wants to believe that EtOH negatively effects their lives in one way or another(aka denial). But listen to ThreeDogs because he speaks truth. Funny how the forum jumps to squash the fallacies in the "E. coli doesnt grow in beer" threads" buts remains lackadaisical and in denial of the serious effects, symptoms, and qualifications of this disease.

I love the attitude on this forum. I love the fact that everybody is so helpful, friendly, and curtious. Despite its negative connotation, I do believe we should have a Sticky on addiction/alcohol dependence because education on this subject should be just as strictly enforced as the education on "sterilization" and "patience".

 

[arch1tect]

If you consider me having a beer or three a night then...yes, but I also have 5 cases of beer stored in my basement that has been untouched since I started brewing in October. In fact I may have to up my consumption so I have more bottles to use.

 

[ronaldo_fanbelt]

I believe I fall in the alcoholic category. I drink way more then I should, way too often. Homebrewing has actually slowed my drinking habit, and I don't really know why. I can put down a half gallon of whiskey when I don't have anything to do. I now drink a lot less of the hard stuff, and just enjoy a few homebrews.

 

[steinsato]

I'm not really sure, I've heard of my Great Uncle being an alcoholic and it can be genetic....I think. My fiance prefers wine and cocktails over beer so we have a fully stocked bar, a 12 bottle wine fridge and a 2 tap kegerator in the house. We don't entertain all that often but it common for both of us to have about 4 drinks a night. I probably only get "drunk" once a week though so I think I have it under control.

 

[Airborneguy]

I have to weigh in once more and stress that besides denial in and of itself, the "system" of support for alcoholism is very heavy-handed and I believe, definitely increases the odds of someone recoiling from them when they need it most.

I wrote my experience a bunch of pages back. In substance, I was forced into rehab/AA based on a false allegation of an ex-. Once it was in the hands of "the authorities", they didn't want to hear anything: both my parents, siblings, friends, everyone who backed me.

I was technically "committed" because of what they considered a lie I told about my alcohol use: I stated that the last time I had drank was a few days before and that I had a glass of wine with 2 friends. My friend described it as, "Yeah we shared a bottle of wine at my house".

I was called a liar because I said one glass. Any f**king idiot knows that a wine bottle has 4-5 glasses in it, so this was a case of words be MISUSED, purposefully.

Now I know one bad experience does not a novel make, but it just went downhill from there: the "authorities" lied to the rehab center about my alcohol use. NOW, this needs to be explained...

Once you are determined to be alcoholic, they immediately do not believe a word you say. So when I said I drink 1-2 beers, 3 times a week, they automatically doubled it for "diagnosis" purposes to 3-6 beers, 3-6 times per week. That is a blatant lie, period, no other way to describe it.

Personally, I know, 100% that I am not an alcoholic, more-so even because of what I saw and was taught in my forced vacation. I went to AA because I had to, lied because I needed signatures after the meetings to prove I went, and never went back the minute my "sentence" was up.

Maybe the treatment program needs to be worked on, or maybe not because at least now I know I didn't belong, and furthermore, that I will never again date a woman I can't trust 100%

 

[Airborneguy]

Oh, and a BIG PS.... Do not ever tell anyone you homebrew if you ever find yourself in my situation!!!!!

To THEM,

Homebrew = moonshine.

Moonshine = alcoholic

Alcoholic = cab ride to a kidnap facility.

 

[Photopilot]

I believe I fall in the alcoholic category. I drink way more then I should, way too often. Homebrewing has actually slowed my drinking habit, and I don't really know why. I can put down a half gallon of whiskey when I don't have anything to do. I now drink a lot less of the hard stuff, and just enjoy a few homebrews.

Sounds like your saying you used to be an alcoholic until you started homebrewing.

Next we'll start a thread ""how homebrewing saved my marriage".

 

[IceFisherChris]

I don't think I'm an alcoholic. There have been a couple times where I haven't had a beer for 5 days and never even thought about it at all. But I do drink a lot!

 

[LVBen]

Am I an alcoholic?

Based on the probability of me dieing from liver failure - yes
Based on everything else - no

 

[LVBen]

Once you are determined to be alcoholic, they immediately do not believe a word you say. So when I said I drink 1-2 beers, 3 times a week, they automatically doubled it for "diagnosis" purposes to 3-6 beers, 3-6 times per week. That is a blatant lie, period, no other way to describe it.

I swear I never drink more than 1 glass of beer per night!

 

[IceFisherChris]

Alcoholic? No
Beeroholic? Yes

 

[lady_brewer]

I like that this thread seems to have come around to an actual serious discussion (although the pic above made me laugh) from the random checklist where even the guy who only takes communion on Sunday is an alcoholic.

Alcoholism runs in my family... so I always have to keep an eye on my own drinking and behavior. My mother is an alcoholic who proudly talks about how many years that she has been sober, despite the fact that she has had a number of other drug issues since that time. I have known some others like her, who for one reason or another were self-medicating undiagnosed mental health issues. Sadly this is in Canada where our health care has all kinds of support for people in this type of situation. I also know one such individual who once treated, on the right medication, etc can have a few drinks with no issues or worries...

The sad truth is that alcoholism is more socially acceptable than depression or manic depression. This means that it is cheaper and easier to self-medicate than to get actual treatment and help. Add on that the meds for these sorts of things make you lose the parts of the disease that feel good (manic swings) and also have odd effects like weight gain and sexual side-effects and booze starts seeming pretty golden. Oh, and some of these meds run $300+ for a 20 day supply.

Overall I think there are a lot more issues underlying in alcohol dependance or abuse than the number of drinks you have per week. At one point I played in a pool league - drinking culture. I don't even want to post how much I drank then, but at a few beers a night, three weeknights a week, let me tell you it was way outside the guidelines. Didn't mean that if I missed a night of pool I still had to sit down with the same amount of beer that night, or that I had any issues with going to work the day after league night.

Disclaimer: Not a professional in mental health, but I do have a neuroscience degree and a handful of life experience... take my comments how you will...

 

[DeathBrewer]

My hometown church used fruit juice instead of wine. Kinda took the fun out of "drinking blood", in my opinion.

 

[ronaldo_fanbelt]

This thread makes me thirsty.

 

[Grimster]

I swear I never drink more than 1 glass of beer per night!

My heart doctor once asked me "how much coffee do you drink?" and I reply "just one cup in the morning" and he's like "oh" and my wife interrupts "his so called cup is a 24 ounce mug" and he's like "oh I see" so how many alcoholic drinks do you have per day? and I'm like "just one glass" and he looks at her immediately and yeah, all downhill from there.

 

[LVBen]

My heart doctor once asked me "how much coffee do you drink?" and I reply "just one cup in the morning" and he's like "oh" and my wife interrupts "his so called cup is a 24 ounce mug" and he's like "oh I see" so how many alcoholic drinks do you have per day? and I'm like "just one glass" and he looks at her immediately and yeah, all downhill from there.

Lol! Maybe I can guess your wife's next response... "Yeah, it's just 1 glass, but he fills it up 6 times!"

 

[jbambuti]

My mother was an alcohol counselor for many years, so my comments come from growing up in that background.

As stated earlier, alcoholism is a disease, which also tends to run in families. It is possible to be a lifelong alcohol abuser, but not become an alcoholic. Two people may drink the exact same amount, with one being or becoming an alcoholic and the other not. It all depends on your wiring. You can be a heavy drinker who is an abuser, or a light drinker who is an alcoholic. Dependency is the key word. Many people who are trying to prove to themselves that they are not dependent on alcohol do things like going a week or a month without drinking just to prove that they can. Then they return to their old ways, feeling good that they are not alcoholics because they can go a period of time without a drink.

The National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence and The American Society of Addiction Medicine define alcoholism as "a primary, chronic disease characterized by impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking."

Just thought I'd add my two bits to the debate.

 

[brewmonk]

This also depends on your definition of an 'alcoholic'.

I enjoy a pint or two almost EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. But I rarely (if ever) consume to get 'drunk'

almost? ALMOST?!?!?! What, are you an AMATEUR??????

= = =
(quote: A major problem with active alcoholism is denial)
great, then since I would admit it, I CANT be one!

 

[Houblon]

Are you all alcoholics?

Lets see, yesterday I had 2 blondes(7%) 3 saisons(7%) 2 APA(5.6%) 2 IPA (7-8%) and after dinner 1 kriek(6%) for a grand total of 10 beers.

Now if I was an alcoholic that wouldn't be possible as my liver would not be able to process the alcohol and I would have been falling down drunk. Oh lets not forget I brewed 5gals. too and hit every number all day and woke up at 5:30am today.

Today I will have 1 beer with dinner and that will be the last beer till a beer party on the 10th.

The month of march will be a dry month ( jbambuti ) in preparation for a week of hard partying in amsterdam followed by lots of beers in Belgium.


My normal drinking habit is 3 6oz beers a day. I don't have a drinking problem but a brewing habit

 

[Bubba]

Mechanic by day Alcoholic by rest of day and night.

 

[dummkauf]

figure I'll throw my $0.02 in here since I've been drinking a few brews tonight while watching the super bowl and browsing this site.

My winter drinking most likely classifies me as an "alcholic" since I tend to drink 1-2 every evening, or every other evening depending on what is going on that particular night. And I've got a few down tonight for the game and have a bit of a buzz.

However, brewing is a recent hobby that I just took up to occupy my winters, and probably some summer weekend days too , but during the warmer months(I'm in MN) my hobby is motorcycles, wrenching on them as well as riding them. I also have a 0 tolerance policy when it comes to operating my 2 wheeled vehicles which means I drink very little during the riding months. Of course then winter rolls around again, and I can't ride anymore

According to the questionnaires I've seen on this thread for "if you answer yes to any of these you need help", depending on the temperature outside I would be an alcoholic for half the year, and would be just fine during the other halves.

Oh, and if I could convince my fiance to buy a heater for the garage, I would likely spend less time drinking and more in the garage during the winter, but that doesn't look like it will be happening any time soon, though I would still homebrew as I love good beer regardless of how often I drink it!