Are there any brewpubs that use homebrew size equipment

[JBrady]

Whats the smallest brewpub setup that you've ever seen? I've heard something along the lines that Dogfish Head started by brewing three 15 gallon batches a day. Have you ever been to any other places that use multiple 15 gallon systems or does everyone pretty much use the standard large microbrewery equipment?

 

[BendBrewer]

Cascade Lakes has a 6 bbl system in one of their pubs. I asked to use it but found out that they don't have a HLT and its a pain in the ass to use. The brewer had to use the buildings hot water tank and it just didn't cut it. It sits completely unused. That's the smallest commercially used one that I have seen I think.

 

[Shooter]

I think Coney Island Brewing has a one gallon system, but, that's really more of a gimmick.

 

[remilard]

6BBL is a pretty typical brewpub size and equivalent to 37ish 5 gallon batches, so not really homebrew size.

There are at least 3 brewpubs using a Sabco Brew Magic for primary production. This is the system DFH started with (as the kettle is 15.5 gallons, really more of a 10 gallon system than 15).

 

[freakshow10mm]

Red Jacket Brewing Company started brewing only a half barrel at a time in 2004. They currently have a 3.5 barrel system. They are the brewing division of the Michigan House Cafe. The restaurant shuts down on Wednesdays and then brews the beer. The cooks are the brewers and there is one part time brewmaster (my co-worker).

 

[JBrady]

so a BBL equals around 30 gallons? slightly off topic but I never learned how much a barrel was lol.

 

[maida7]

A BBL = 31 gallons

There is a restaurant in our town doing 10 gallon batches on a brew magic system. The place is called The Lobster Trap. The beer is only served in the restaurant.

 

[remilard]

A BBL = 31 gallons

There is a restaurant in our town doing 10 gallon batches on a brew magic system. The place is called the Oyster Trap. The beer is only served in the restaurant.

Make that at least 4. One in NY, IA, KS and NC.

A barrel of beer is 31 gallons for the sake of completeness. It is effectively never sold packaged in that quantity as you rarely see a bigger keg than half barrel (which is what most people think of as a full size keg).

 

[riverfrontbrewer]

There is one in Parker, CO called the Falcon...last I knew (several months ago) they were using a sabco style keggle set up.

 

[Trouble_Brewing]

Worth Brewing in Northwood, IA uses a 10gal Sabco type system. It was featured on an early episode of Brewing TV if you want to check it out.

 

[the_bird]

There was a pub in West Virginia we were talking about a few months ago, using a SABCO-type half-barrel system. They closed after six months

Hard to run a business when you're brewing on such a minute scale. From all that I've ever heard or read, 5BBL is the pretty much the bare-bones minimum.

 

[JBrady]

wow I never would have believed that so many were using small equipment. Owning a brewery that packages is a far and away dream for many of us, but owning a functioning profitable brewpub is well within reach. Especially with the permit fees and regulations being much more affordable when brewing and consuming on the same property.

 

[maida7]

wow I never would have believed that so many were using small equipment. Owning a brewery that packages is a far and away dream for many of us, but owning a functioning profitable brewpub is well within reach. Especially with the permit fees and regulations being much more affordable when brewing and consuming on the same property.

umm, I don't think so... Owning a brew pub means running a successful restaurant and IMHO that is much harder then it sounds.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Visited a place in Florence SC last Sunday called "Southern Hops". They have a 7-bbl Specific system, but the brewer still has his homebrew set-up for test batches. Pretty neat.

M_C

 

[stevea1210]

JoBoys in Mannheim PA uses a sabco. He is constantly brewing to keep up.

Sent from my DROIDX using Home Brew Talk

 

[snowveil]

JoBoys in Mannheim PA uses a sabco. He is constantly brewing to keep up.

Funny you mention that...I was just about to reply with the same brewpub.

If anyone is ever in the area check them out. Jeff and Jo are great people and the beer and food are both good.

 

[Airborneguy]

Bandwagon in Ithaca brews on a 10gal system.

I have seem some other pretty small ones, but nothing else approaching 5-10 gallons.

 

[JBrady]

umm, I don't think so... Owning a brew pub means running a successful restaurant and IMHO that is much harder then it sounds.

excellent point, that would definitely be the tough part. But it still is much cheaper permit wise, with less regulation also than trying to go with a packaging setup.

 

[maida7]

excellent point, that would definitely be the tough part. But it still is much cheaper permit wise, with less regulation also than trying to go with a packaging setup.

Permits vary from state to state. Here in NC there is no big difference. At the federal level it not any different. Your making beer for sale. The license is the same.

 

[JBrady]

Permits vary from state to state. Here in NC there is no big difference. At the federal level it not any different. Your making beer for sale. The license is the same.

I hear ya, Floridas licensing is pretty cheap on the brewpub/resturant side. I would just hate to have to deal with the ****ty distribution structure that our country has on the packaging side of brewing.

 

[maida7]

I hear ya, Floridas licensing is pretty cheap on the brewpub/resturant side. I would just hate to have to deal with the ****ty distribution structure that our country has on the packaging side of brewing.

We don't have the 3 tier structure here in NC. Any brewery regardless of size can easily get a permit to distribute beer. There are 11 small breweries in my town. Most of them outsource the distribution to save time but a few do it themselves. One is even distributing beers from out of state. They rep for Sprecher from Milwaukee as well as their own beer.

 

[JBrady]

We don't have the 3 tier structure here in NC. Any brewery regardless of size can easily get a permit to distribute beer. There are 11 small breweries in my town. Most of them outsource the distribution to save time but a few do it themselves. One is even distributing beers from out of state. They rep for Sprecher from Milwaukee as well as their own beer.

Holy crap I think I'm moving to NC!! How is it that NC is getting around the 3 tier system?

 

[Airborneguy]

Distribution is a state by state thing. If you learned about it from Beer Wars, you were duped into believing it was nation wide.

 

[ChadS99SVT]

Dad and Dudes in centennial (I think) is brewing ~7.5gallon batches and fermenting in 1/2 barrel tanks so they do two batches.

originally they planned on having most of their own beers on tap and every time I go in there it is less and less and just more guest taps.

I was just in there last week and they had two out of 10 taps homebrew...they can not keep up with demand. (not a bad thing) but when it is that bad I think it is doing more harm than good. they don't allow growlers or anything due to lack of beer.

They have two brewers working 40+ hrs per week. They need a bigger system but that place was not designed to house anything bigger than what they have. so

 

[dcott]

So I've been reading Sam Calagione's book "Brewing Up a Business" (which is great by the way), and he talks about starting with just a 10 gal system. He says the benefit was he didn't have to commit himself to one huge batch of a test beer, but he says he was brewing constantly.

I was curious how feasible it would be to start something like this, so I decided to do some number crunching:

To put it into perspective, let's say you get a full 10 gal. yield from a batch. This is 1280 oz, or 80 pints. If you brew 3 batches a day for 5 days, you will be generating 1200 pints a week.

If your restaurant has 120 seats, you are open for seven days a week, and you are doing an average of only 1.5 turns a day (a conservative estimate in a busy market if you are putting out good food), you are having 1260 people come to your restaurant in a week. Since everyone doesn't drink, and some will be families with children, let's assume that only 80% of your customers in a week will want at least one beer. This is 1008 beers, which leaves 192 pints, which means only 19% of your beer drinking customers will be getting a second pint. Ouch.

 

[dcott]

So I've been reading Sam Calagione's book "Brewing Up a Business" (which is great by the way), and he talks about starting with just a 10 gal system. He says the benefit was he didn't have to commit himself to one huge batch of a test beer, but he says he was brewing constantly.

I was curious how feasible it would be to start something like this, so I decided to do some number crunching:

To put it into perspective, let's say you get a full 10 gal. yield from a batch. This is 1280 oz, or 80 pints. If you brew 3 batches a day for 5 days, you will be generating 1200 pints a week.

If your restaurant has 120 seats, you are open for seven days a week, and you are doing an average of only 1.5 turns a day (a conservative estimate in a busy market if you are putting out good food), you are having 1260 people come to your restaurant in a week. Since everyone doesn't drink, and some will be families with children, let's assume that only 80% of your customers in a week will want at least one beer. This is 1008 beers, which leaves 192 pints, which means only 19% of your beer drinking customers will be getting a second pint. Ouch.

Also, when you consider it takes essentially the same amount of time to brew a 10 gal batch as it does a 10 bbl batch, the labor becomes a huge cost of operation.

 

[the_bird]

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't even dream of trying to run a pub with anything that small. It's going to kill you and make you hate brewing, doing it on such a ridiculously small scale. You know what will happen, too - you'll fall behind in brewing, and you'll feel rushed to put out that beer that's still a little too young. I've been to small places where they're clearly serving green beer.

What happens if you get sick for a little while and can't brew?

What about the eight million things besides brewing that need to get done at a brewpub?

If you don't have the capital to do more than a glorified homebrew system... save up until you can cobble together something that's legitimate for a commercial setup. Doesn't have to be new or fancy, but it makes zero sense to me to be brewing at a scale that small.

EDIT: Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you've got a lot of research work in front of you. The laws on these matter vary tremendously state-by-state (pretty sure some states have minimum production requirements, at least for packaging operations, that might sink you at this scale).

Might be good to try and get friendly with a local publican.

 

[jer204]

I heard Dragon Mead in Detroit uses a 3.5 bbl system and they distribute...but I could be wrong.

 

[GoodRatsBrew]

I've been flirting with the idea of a brewery co-op and subsequently looking at sizing equipment. The farmer/homebrewer in me says to keep the brewing equipment small and invest more in fermenters, BUT the savy business person in me leans towards the larger (7 bbl) size to cut labor and ensure more uniformity per batch. Also, the cost of a 3 bbl system and the extra for a 7 bbl is fairly small. Just my 2 cents...

 

[GoodRatsBrew]

It's hard to believe BUT I'm having an easier time selling the brewery idea to the wife than I am the keezer.... Marrriage truely is a strange institution....

 

[YNOT2K]

Epic Ales in Seattle. One man operation - 10 gallons at a time...

Serves samples from a two tap keezer with corney kegs.

Cody is a cool dude. Great beer too.

 

[Grinder12000]

There is a tap room in Iowa that has a 10G system - 3 batches a day and the place is packed, like a cult! - I have the address at work!! I'll post it tomorrow

 

[JBrady]

Distribution is a state by state thing. If you learned about it from Beer Wars, you were duped into believing it was nation wide.

yep thats where I learned it from

 

[freakshow10mm]

Problem with most brewpubs is it's brewery and restaurant combined. You definitely make your money on beer sales. I've been in restaurant management and it's tough. It takes a certain personality to run a profitable restaurant. In brewpubs, generally the food profit covers those employees and draws your clients. The net profit is generated by the beer sales.

 

[Airborneguy]

yep thats where I learned it from

Yeah she made it seem like a nationwide thing. The rules wary widely. Some are borderline crazy. Take a look at Texas, and even beer-friendly Colorado where they feel the need to protect liquor stores at the expense of gas stations for some reason.

Some places allow self-distribution up to a certain about, but require larger producers to have a distributor.

It's actually interesting to look into some of the state alcohol laws.

 

[skeeordye11]

There's a microbrewery (nanobrewery?) in my area that just has a 2BBL system and no restaurant. Ballsy dudes to say the least.

 

[remilard]

I've been flirting with the idea of a brewery co-op and subsequently looking at sizing equipment. The farmer/homebrewer in me says to keep the brewing equipment small and invest more in fermenters, BUT the savy business person in me leans towards the larger (7 bbl) size to cut labor and ensure more uniformity per batch. Also, the cost of a 3 bbl system and the extra for a 7 bbl is fairly small. Just my 2 cents...

For a packaging brewery 7 is very small. It takes much more time to sell beer than to make it. If you are doing the selling too, start with a brew length that lets you brew once a week.

 

[maida7]

I've been flirting with the idea of a brewery co-op and subsequently looking at sizing equipment. The farmer/homebrewer in me says to keep the brewing equipment small and invest more in fermenters, BUT the savy business person in me leans towards the larger (7 bbl) size to cut labor and ensure more uniformity per batch. Also, the cost of a 3 bbl system and the extra for a 7 bbl is fairly small. Just my 2 cents...

How are you going to sell your beer? If you selling it in kegs then you will need to make a whole lot because the margins are low. 7 BBL would be kinda small. a 10 or 20 BBL system would make much more sense.

If you are strictly selling by the glass then you could get away with a smaller system because the margins are much better. A 3 bbl might work. A 7bbl would save you tons of time. In this scenario you's also need to manage a bar.

 

[matthendry]

There are many Nanobreweries using high end homebrew equipment some of these startups post on Homebrew talk in the DIY section .

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/

http://hessbrewing.blogspot.com/2009/11/nanobreweries-in-usa.html

 

[Revvy]

Yes, I've posted about it here. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f5/smallest-brewpub-202767/#post2369631

They have a couple conicals that I never see filled, but mostly buckets and carboys, though they do a few larger batches. But most of them are 5-10 gallon batches, that when they are gone, they're gone.