Anything Similar to Pliny the Elder?

wps-hbt
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
ultravista

ultravista

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
2,531
Reaction score
83
Location
Las Vegas
I cannot get Pliny the Elder here in Las Vegas.

Are there any beers similar, in the same ballpark, as Pliny?
 
Honestly, PtE is overrated. Don't get me wrong, its a tremendous beer but there are dozens of equal if not better beers out there. Try some of your local brewery's IPA/DIPAs and I'm sure they are top notch. If you really must try PtE, give the homebrew clone (seen on HBT in multiple variations or clone kits that are sold) a try. They are pretty darn close.
 
Besides Arrogant Bastard, any high IBU double IPAs that use 100% or near 100% Chinook?
 
I agree with sixthgear, Pliny is mostly hype. I've had it one tap several times and never got any fireworks or was in awe of how amazing it was, It's a really solid double IPA and there are a ton others that i enjoy much more and are easier to get. For example, Knee Deep Brewing is starting to become one of my favorites with all their crazy double and triple IPAs. Its all about what type of hop flavors you enjoy, dont just hear about a beer from someone with a different palate than yours and think its the god of all beers.
 
Like DarthCitra said Knee Deep makes some of the best IPAs out there. My personal favorite would be any of Alpine's releases. Duet, Pure Hoppiness, Hoppy Birthday, Exponential Hoppiness, Nelson, etc. Superb.
 
I ask after reviewing Zymurgy's to beer list. Pliny has been at the top of the heap for several years now. I've got a Pliny and Zombie Dust recipe and trying to decide which to brew. I have never tasted either - both are rated extremely high.

I've got about 10 ounces of Chinook in the freezer, also looking for a DIPA to use the Chinook.
 
Inevitably those who can't get it come to every Pliny thread and call it over rated. The beer is great. The problem is people thinking it's supposed to give them a religious experience when they drink it.

To answer your question OP, there's a thought in Sonoma County that Hop Stoopid from Lagunitas is a Pliny clone. Give it a try for a rough idea. If you've got anything to trade, I'll send ya a couple bottles of the over rated come to Jesus beer known as Pliny. :mug:
 
I don't think Pliny is overrated. It's an excellent DIPA. I love it and fresh on tap especially.

It's quaffable, hoppy, and flavorful, exactly what I want in an IIPA/DIPA.

I've never had anything remotely similar, although I've had some great IIPAs by other breweries.
 
There is this dividing line with "hyped" beers. They are always great beers. But with word-of-mouth, interwebz. etc, their desirability grows. People wait in lines for hours, trade across the country for them, even TRAVEL across the country for them!

The difference in opinion comes from a personal perceptions of what a "great beer" is. Those that understand there are many great beers and many are equal, often enjoy the hyped beer they sought out. Those that expect a "religious experience" as one poster points out, are often disappointing.

I often here that with heady. People say its an amazing beer but not the best. They are correct, its amazing and hard to get. When you get it, you will enjoy it, but personal taste and experience will often lead to the fact that its just in the top echelon...not the "perfect beer." Those expecting something truly radical will be disappointed. Its just an extremely well done beer...much like Pliny and many others.
 
ultravista said:
How close do you estimate Hop Stoopid is to Pliny? I can get H.S. here.
Click to expand...

I don't find it similar at all, I like Pliny but I can't get through a bottle of Hop Stoopid. A glance at clone recipes shows two very different beers. Pliny is 2 row, carapils, C40, and dextrose for fermentables with columbus, simcoe, and centennial hops. Hop Stoopid is just 2 row and victory with nugget, hop extract, chinook, and simcoe hops.
 
ktblunden said:
I don't find it similar at all, I like Pliny but I can't get through a bottle of Hop Stoopid. A glance at clone recipes shows two very different beers. Pliny is 2 row, carapils, C40, and dextrose for fermentables with columbus, simcoe, and centennial hops. Hop Stoopid is just 2 row and victory with nugget, hop extract, chinook, and simcoe hops.
Click to expand...

Same here. Hop Stoopid is pretty "thick" and a bit cloying to me as well, while Pliny is quaffable. The hops flavor is somewhat similar, but not all that close.

Another wonderful IIPA that maybe you could find is Lake Erie Monster, by Great Lakes Brewing Company. That's right up there with Pliny, in my humble opinion.
 
The Yardhouse in Las Vegas has Stone Enjoy By on their limited drafts right now. It's not all that similar to Pliny, but it is an excellent, well-balanced DIPA.

EDIT: I think Enjoy By might be a better beer. If you can find Stone's RuinTen anywhere near you right now, grab some. It's incredible.
 
I've had the real deal.

I've also done several clones of Pliny using the recipe that is floating around and supposedly originated at Russian River. It's pretty close.

All three batches were excellent. My only change would be to swap out the 90 minute bittering hops and replace it with hopshot to mellow out the beer a little. Mine came out a bit more bitter than the real thing. It was still good.
 
b-boy said:
I've had the real deal.

I've also done several clones of Pliny using the recipe that is floating around and supposedly originated at Russian River. It's pretty close.

All three batches were excellent. My only change would be to swap out the 90 minute bittering hops and replace it with hopshot to mellow out the beer a little. Mine came out a bit more bitter than the real thing. It was still good.
Click to expand...

I'm not a huge fan of bittering with Columbus. Hopshot would be a good alternative, but I think Warrior would give a nice smooth bitterness.
 
Yooper said:
Another wonderful IIPA that maybe you could find is Lake Erie Monster, by Great Lakes Brewing Company. That's right up there with Pliny, in my humble opinion.
Click to expand...

Odd; I think Lake Erie Monster is much too sweet (which seems to be a really common failing in IIPAs).

ktblunden said:
EDIT: I think Enjoy By might be a better beer. If you can find Stone's RuinTen anywhere near you right now, grab some. It's incredible.
Click to expand...

I've only had Pliny the once, so it's hard to compare, but Enjoy By, RuinTen, and Ruination are all great IIPAs, IMO.

I've also made one of the PtE clones and one of the Enjoy By clones -- and they make great beers.
 
I don't think Pliny is over hyped. It's a very well balanced beer. Other big IPA's like Hopocaplypse, Hop Stoopid, Denogginizer, Arrogant Bastard, etc... are all really great too. But IMO, none are as well balanced as Pliny. I enjoy them all, of course. :)
 
I don't mean the hijack this thread but I was wondering if anyone has tried the Pliny kit from Farm House Brewing. I ordered their hop pack and after plugging all of this into Beer Smith I saw the IBU's to be north of 150. I doubt I could extract this much from the hops and my wife loves ultra hoppy beers si i would like to know what anyone might think of the kit or this recipe.


MALT BILL
87% 2-Row Malt
4% Crystal 45 Malt
4% Carapils (Dextrin) Malt
5% Dextrose Sugar

O.G. - 1.070
T.G. - 1.011
BU's - 90-95 (actual/not calculated)
ABV - 8-8.5%
Mash Rest - 151-152
Boil Time - 90 min.
SRM - 7ish
California Ale Yeast



HOP BILL
3.50 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. 90 min.
.75 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. 45 min.
1.00 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. 30 min.
1.00 oz Centennial 8.00% A.A. 0 min.
2.50 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. 0 min.
1.00 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 Days Total)
1.00 oz Centennial 9.10% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 Days Total)
1.00 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 Days Total)
.25 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
.25 oz Centennial 9.10% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
.25 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
 
msa8967 said:
I don't mean the hijack this thread but I was wondering if anyone has tried the Pliny kit from Farm House Brewing. I ordered their hop pack and after plugging all of this into Beer Smith I saw the IBU's to be north of 150. I doubt I could extract this much from the hops and my wife loves ultra hoppy beers si i would like to know what anyone might think of the kit or this recipe.


MALT BILL
87% 2-Row Malt
4% Crystal 45 Malt
4% Carapils (Dextrin) Malt
5% Dextrose Sugar

O.G. - 1.070
T.G. - 1.011
BU's - 90-95 (actual/not calculated)
ABV - 8-8.5%
Mash Rest - 151-152
Boil Time - 90 min.
SRM - 7ish
California Ale Yeast



HOP BILL
3.50 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. 90 min.
.75 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. 45 min.
1.00 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. 30 min.
1.00 oz Centennial 8.00% A.A. 0 min.
2.50 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. 0 min.
1.00 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 Days Total)
1.00 oz Centennial 9.10% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 Days Total)
1.00 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. Dry Hop (12 to 14 Days Total)
.25 oz CTZ 13.90% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
.25 oz Centennial 9.10% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
.25 oz Simcoe 12.30% A.A. Dry Hop (5 days to go in dry hop)
Click to expand...


I was literally just looking at the recipe and thought 3.5 oz for 90 mins to be a bit too much on the bitter side, at most i use 1.5oz and it comes out pretty bitter. and 14 days is a long time to leave the hops in, 7 days dry hopping should be the longest you need.

If you and your wife like hoppy beers, try Hoppy Birthday from Alpine brewing. It is amazing!
 
I just made the pilgrimage from WA to Russian River and came back with a case of Pliny. It wasn't a life-changing religious experience but it is very easy to see why it is the gold standard of hoppy beers.

I think the closest widely distributed commercial example I've had to a PTE would be Enjoy By, but not this latest batch. It was the 2/14/14 batch that I think was comparable.

As far as clone recipes, I think the best one out there is over at Bertus Brewery. http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2013/08/pliny-elder-clone-30.html
 
DarthCitra said:
I was literally just looking at the recipe and thought 3.5 oz for 90 mins to be a bit too much on the bitter side, at most i use 1.5oz and it comes out pretty bitter. and 14 days is a long time to leave the hops in, 7 days dry hopping should be the longest you need.

If you and your wife like hoppy beers, try Hoppy Birthday from Alpine brewing. It is amazing!
Click to expand...

I will look for Hoppy Birthday.

I was seriously thinking of just using 1.75 oz of the CTZ hops for the bittering addition and just dry hopping for 5-7 days instead of the 14 recommended. I might even just do a 60 min boil unless you think 90 min is absolutely necessary. I am still not sure how long I should let this go in the primary and if a secondary is essential for this brew. What do you think???
 
msa8967 said:
I will look for Hoppy Birthday.

I was seriously thinking of just using 1.75 oz of the CTZ hops for the bittering addition and just dry hopping for 5-7 days instead of the 14 recommended. I might even just do a 60 min boil unless you think 90 min is absolutely necessary. I am still not sure how long I should let this go in the primary and if a secondary is essential for this brew. What do you think???
Click to expand...


I believe the 90 minute boils is for hop utilization so i would just do a 90 minute, calculate for water loss from evaporation so you dont come up short. I never go secondary unless im adding oak or fruit to the process.

As for how long to sit in primary, i cant answer...it all depends on temp and what yeast you're using, trust your hydro readings. Dont dry hop till the very tail end of fermentation too. thats important to keep that wonderful hop nose.
 
Russian River uses hop extract for the 90 minute addition and iirc the 60? minute addition?

I've had both PTE and Zombie dust, both are great but totally different beers. One is 6.5% abv and 60-65 ibus (Zombie) while the other is 8% abv and is much higher ibu (80+).

Brew both!
 
msa8967 said:
I will look for Hoppy Birthday.

I was seriously thinking of just using 1.75 oz of the CTZ hops for the bittering addition and just dry hopping for 5-7 days instead of the 14 recommended. I might even just do a 60 min boil unless you think 90 min is absolutely necessary. I am still not sure how long I should let this go in the primary and if a secondary is essential for this brew. What do you think???
Click to expand...

Make it as written, at least the first time. You can shorten the dryhopping (I do), but make it otherwise exactly like the recipe. You will not be disappointed, I promise! My husband LOVES this, and it's it's favorite beer I make. The only thing he doesn't love is the high ABV, as we both like to sip on beer all evening while we do things on the computer, and read, etc. I've made a "Pliny the Toddler" version, and while it was quite good, it wasn't nearly as awesome as the above recipe.
 
Yooper said:
Make it as written, at least the first time. You can shorten the dryhopping (I do), but make it otherwise exactly like the recipe. You will not be disappointed, I promise! My husband LOVES this, and it's it's favorite beer I make. The only thing he doesn't love is the high ABV, as we both like to sip on beer all evening while we do things on the computer, and read, etc. I've made a "Pliny the Toddler" version, and while it was quite good, it wasn't nearly as awesome as the above recipe.
Click to expand...

You did the full 3.5oz at 90 min?! im scared about that much bitterness Yooper!
 
DarthCitra said:
You did the full 3.5oz at 90 min?! im scared about that much bitterness Yooper!
Click to expand...

It sounds weird, but you won't get more bitterness. First, it's really not possible for hops oils to isomerize that much before getting saturation point, so even though it calculates out to something like 250 IBUs, it will have far less. The real Pliny, which calculates out that high, has been tested at something like 85 IBUs, in the lab.

Also, even though the hops oils don't isomerize above about 100 IBUs anyway, the Pliny clone wort is "slick" with hops oils when you brew it. That's a sign of all of that wonderful hop oil in there. So, while you don't get more bitterness, you do get an intense "in your face" hops presence, that's for sure!
 
DarthCitra said:
You did the full 3.5oz at 90 min?! im scared about that much bitterness Yooper!
Click to expand...
Like I mentioned earlier last I heard RR now uses hop extract for bittering, most say it produces a smoother bitterness when used in longer boils vs. Pellet or whole hops.

Long but good podcast Vinnie talks about the old vs New recipe. http://s125483039.onlinehome.us/archive/dwnldarchive01-17-10.mp3

Start listening at like 1 hour 48 minutes. At 1 hour 49 be starts talking about hop extract, it's a 90 minute and 45 minute addition.
TimmyWit said:
I have never had the original but I brewed the one on AHA published by Vinnie Cilurzo which looks identical to the one from Farmhouse. It is very tasty. I vote for brewing it as published:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/6351/doubleIPA.pdf
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty well known that while that recipe was PTE at one time it is constantly evolving with one of the biggest changes being the use of hop extract in the boil for bittering. There is a reason why RR, Firestone, and The Alchemist all use it in their double IPA's.
 
Yooper said:
Make it as written, at least the first time.
Click to expand...

*Steps onto soapbox*

This. It drives me crazy on the forum, and especially on clone threads, when people say:

"I'm brewing a clone of _____________. I love __________! I'm only going to change the malt bill, the hops, the water, and the yeast, and I'm going to make a great clone! (Wait a month) .......AWWW it didn't turn out very good :("

If you're wanting to brew a clone, brew a clone. If you want to experiment, experiment, but PLEASE don't call it a clone.

Brewing is fun, and you can experiment all you like- thats why it's great! Unending possibilities! Tweaking great beers is fun, too. I do it all the time, but let's not call it a clone, please. Maybe call it a _______-inspired beer or something like that....

*Steps off soapbox*
 
Pliny the Elder(and Younger) are both wonderful beers. Waiting six hours for the Younger is a great experience and I highly recommend it. You're missing out if you can't have them fresh.

Back to the original post, I was pleasantly surprised by Auburn Alehouse's Isotope PU-240 Imperial IPA. It's verrrry similar in taste, aroma, appearance, etc. 100+ IBUs, right around 8%. Absolutely delicious. I grab a couple bottles anytime I see it.

Unless you live in the Sacramento or Lake Tahoe area in CA, I doubt many will see it. I live three hours from Auburn and my local craft brew store has to get it in one of two ways. A) Drive three hours to purchase it B)Have one of the employee's daughter drop it off at the store when she's returning from visiting family.

It's a great beer.
 
Yooper said:
Make it as written, at least the first time. You can shorten the dryhopping (I do), but make it otherwise exactly like the recipe. You will not be disappointed, I promise! My husband LOVES this, and it's it's favorite beer I make. The only thing he doesn't love is the high ABV, as we both like to sip on beer all evening while we do things on the computer, and read, etc. I've made a "Pliny the Toddler" version, and while it was quite good, it wasn't nearly as awesome as the above recipe.
Click to expand...

Should I think about splitting the first hop addition into 2 oz at 90 minutes and 1.5 oz as a first wort hop addition?
 
Doctor_M said:
Start listening at like 1 hour 48 minutes. At 1 hour 49 be starts talking about hop extract, it's a 90 minute and 45 minute addition.
Click to expand...

Cool technique. I would like to try it. Do you have a proposal for how much extract to use? Listening to the podcast, they say it's difficult to work with on a homebrew scale because it's like mollasses and it's difficult to measure with it being so concentrated.

They also say that using extract helps with yield and avoiding vegetal off-flavors. I'm not concerned with yield being a homebrewer. Whether I get 5 gallons or 5.25 gallons is not as important as the batch turning out. I haven't noticed the vegetal off flavors with the old recipe. But, I am always open to brewing better beer. If there is a benefit to using this on a homebrew scale and someone has dialed it in, I'm all ears.

I don't think OP needs to overthink it. I can say that the old recipe results in a great beer. It has been brewed by a couple folks in this thread with good results. It is sure to please the hop head. :mug:
 

Similar threads

B
IBU with Beersmith on high gravity beer
Replies
9
Views
731
hottpeper13
H
3 Dawg Night
Pliny the Elder American Pale Ale
Replies
14
Views
2K
redrocker652002
R
Tomas Ramirez
First Pliney the Elder clone
Replies
1
Views
441
JohnSand
JohnSand
whatstyleguidelines
Lots of Munich/Vienna vs a little Aromatic/Melanoidin/Dark Munich
Replies
2
Views
769
whatstyleguidelines
whatstyleguidelines
R
Pliny the Elder to an APA
Replies
14
Views
1K
redrocker652002
R
InkBird 300

Latest posts

Back
Top