I’ve not made one, but if it’s similar in concept to a schwarzbier, I’d recommend both Briess Extra Special and Simpsons DRC. Then again, I’d recommend a little DRC in just about everything. I just put some in an IPA…
Sounds great! For roasty and smooth I stand by DRC.It practically between a dunkel and schwarzbier. More complex and malty than a Schwarzbier and roastier and smoother than a dunkel
Or you could use U Fleku's recipe:
https://vinepair.com/articles/czech-beer-dark-lager/
I personally think it is too heavy on the caramunich.
I prefer the following grain bill:
60% Weyermann pilsner malt
30% Weyermann light munich malt
7% Weyermann caramunich II
3% Weyermann carafa special III
Saaz or other noble hop @ 60 and 20 min for a total of 25 ibu
Wyeast 2206 fermented at 50F
Thanks folks! I’ve been able to piece together a recipe that will fit what I’m trying to achieve.
The beer I am actually brewing is a Smoked Dark Czech Lager. I’m going with the following for the grainbill ;
60% - Ger. Floor malted Pilsner
18% - Victory Malt
8% - Caramunich II
8% - Oak Smoked Wheat
3% - Chocolate Wheat
3% - Carafa Special II
I’ll be targeting 25 ibus from Saaz between - 60 min, 20 min, and 5 min additions
If that’s Weyermann oak-smoked wheat, the smoke is very mild. It’s noticeable at 100% of the grist as a Grodziskie, but I don’t think you’ll taste much smoke at all under 25% or so. You could try Weyermann’s rauchmalz, or Briess cherrywood; both are stronger. If it must be oak and wheat, Sugar Creek’s Grodziskie malt is wonderful stuff (and you’d only need a few percent), but you’d need to order 10 pounds from them direct.Thanks folks! I’ve been able to piece together a recipe that will fit what I’m trying to achieve.
The beer I am actually brewing is a Smoked Dark Czech Lager. I’m going with the following for the grainbill ;
60% - Ger. Floor malted Pilsner
18% - Victory Malt
8% - Caramunich II
8% - Oak Smoked Wheat
3% - Chocolate Wheat
3% - Carafa Special II
I’ll be targeting 25 ibus from Saaz between - 60 min, 20 min, and 5 min additions
Thanks for the heads up. I had Helles that used Oaked smoked wheat and it was pretty noticeable and the guy used between 8-10% so that’s what i was basing it off. I’ll do some research on some of the different types of smoked malt tonight. I won’t be brewing this until late March. I want it to be a pleasant level of smoke without it coming off peaty or detracting from the subtle nuances of the other grainsIf that’s Weyermann oak-smoked wheat, the smoke is very mild. It’s noticeable at 100% of the grist as a Grodziskie, but I don’t think you’ll taste much smoke at all under 25% or so. You could try Weyermann’s rauchmalz, or Briess cherrywood; both are stronger. If it must be oak and wheat, Sugar Creek’s Grodziskie malt is wonderful stuff (and you’d only need a few percent), but you’d need to order 10 pounds from them direct.
People have different sensitivity to the smoke. So if you are brewing for yourself go light or heavy as you like. If brewing for a particular style for competition of course pay attention to guidelines. Just my two cents.Thanks for the heads up. I had Helles that used Oaked smoked wheat and it was pretty noticeable and the guy used between 8-10% so that’s what i was basing it off. I’ll do some research on some of the different types of smoked malt tonight. I won’t be brewing this until late March. I want it to be a pleasant level of smoke without it coming off peaty or detracting from the subtle nuances of the other grains
It’s for serving at Winter Homebrew fest but other than that just because I think it would make for a very interesting and beautiful dark lager. If it comes out good I’ll probably enter it as 32.aPeople have different sensitivity to the smoke. So if you are brewing for yourself go light or heavy as you like. If brewing for a particular style for competition of course pay attention to guidelines. Just my two cents.
I’m Looking to see a few Dark Czech Lager recipes that people really enjoy before brewing one! Honestly I’m more interested in seeing grainbills more than anything.
Thanks in advance!
Fermentables |
Ingredient | Amount | % | MCU | When |
Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner Malt | 6lb 8oz | 53.6 % | 2.1 | In Mash/Steeped |
Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian Dark Malt | 3lb 9oz | 29.6 % | 3.8 | In Mash/Steeped |
Weyermann CaraMunich II Malt | 1lb 0oz | 8.0 % | 7.2 | In Mash/Steeped |
Weyermann Carafa Special II Malt | 9.63 oz | 5.0 % | 42.6 | In Mash/Steeped |
Weyermann Carafa II | 7.20 oz | 3.7 % | 33.3 | In Mash/Steeped |
Hops |
Variety | Alpha | Amount | IBU | Form | When |
US Sterling | 7.5 % | 1.13 oz | 27.9 | Loose Pellet Hops | First Wort Hopped |
Czech Saaz | 3.5 % | 1.00 oz |
Yeast Strain | Amount | Used |
White Labs WLP800-Pilsner Lager | 1.0 qts |
Mash Schedule |
Mash Type: | Full Mash |
Schedule Name: | Multi-Step (126-145-158) - Tmavé Pivo |
Step Type | Temperature | Duration |
Rest at | 126 ˚F | 15 |
Raise by direct heating to | 145 ˚F | 25 |
Rest at | 145 ˚F | 30 |
Raise by direct heating to | 158 ˚F | 20 |
Rest at | 150 ˚F | 20 |
Fermentation Temperature: | 50 ˚F |
Many moons ago I found this on a site that sold AG kits in the US.
The recipe claims to be from an actual brew day in a Czech brewery, so is an 'authentic' Czech style dark lager.
How true I don't know, and I haven't tried it yet, although it is on the list...
Moravian Dark Lager
This recipe is taken directly from the brewlog from the day I spent brewing in the Moravia.
44% Budvar malt
44% light munich
10% 55L crystal
2% black patent.
1 oz Saaz @90
1 oz Saaz @60
1 oz Saaz @20 minutes.
Budvar yeast, 1 cup corn sugar.
My understanding is Biscuit and victory are the same malt but from different grow areas and maltsters. Victory is the most pronounce in my opinion, both can have a big impact even at about 5-7%Wow, glad I found this thread as I am planning on brewing my first dark Czech lager. While I have not had any of the "authentic" versions from Ufleku or others, I have had some regional and HB versions before and I love the style. With that I have a couple questions that I would love everyone's input on:
1) Does anyone think there would be a difference between floor-malted bohemian pilsner vs Barke pilsner (both weyermann branded)? I have attached the sensory wheels for both and honestly they are nearly identical with exception that barke appears to have a little more pronounced caramel aromas and malty aromas. I know these sensory wheels aren't everything and the slight differences suggest to me that Im not sure I would even be able to tell the difference in a blind test of the malts. I don't have access to readily taste each malt and do all online orders, so any input on people who have used either or both malts, especially in this style would be appreciated. Seems a lot here focused on floor-malted varieties and I haven't seen any reference to barke varieties. It seems that if anything, the barke is just a more intense version in terms of aromas but taste on the sensory wheels appear identical.
2) victory vs biscuit malt? I have used biscuit a lot in other beers, but never any victory malt specifically. If anyone has tried/tasted both malts, can you enlighten me on the differences you have perceived?
Maybe Im splitting hairs with these questions, but just trying to put my best foot forward with this first brew of a dark Czech lager. BTW, this will also be my FIRST lager ever! lol. Thanks in advance!
View attachment 769077View attachment 769076
1) Does anyone think there would be a difference between floor-malted bohemian pilsner vs Barke pilsner (both weyermann branded)? I have attached the sensory wheels for both and honestly they are nearly identical with exception that barke appears to have a little more pronounced caramel aromas and malty aromas. I know these sensory wheels aren't everything and the slight differences suggest to me that Im not sure I would even be able to tell the difference in a blind test of the malts. I don't have access to readily taste each malt and do all online orders, so any input on people who have used either or both malts, especially in this style would be appreciated. Seems a lot here focused on floor-malted varieties and I haven't seen any reference to barke varieties. It seems that if anything, the barke is just a more intense version in terms of aromas but taste on the sensory wheels appear identical.
thanks for the info. This was my thinking. even though I don't have access locally to simply try these grains out side by side raw, Im not sure my palate is sophisticated enough to tell the difference between these pilsner malts, especially in a dark Czech lager which has other flavors coming out.I have tasted both malts side-by-side, just by eating the grains, and I can't tell any difference: this post.
I've also made four SMaSHes using Pilsner from different maltsters, and couldn't taste a difference: this post.
I'm not the most finicky taster. But as far as my taste buds are concerned: Pilsner malt is Pilsner malt. (This is emphatically not my experience with other base malts, include English pale, Munich, and Vienna.)
Thanks I appreciate the input! My recipe is mostly all figured out now, just need to settle on my water profile I am targeting. From my research on water profiles it seems that everything is quite low especially Ca and Na and then Cl favored over SO4. Thoughts?Hey Noob...your 1.64 M/ml/°P pitch rate is fine. I normally target anywhere between 1.5-2.0 depending on fermentation temps. If I ferment cold, like 48F, then I go closer to the 2.0 pitch rate. If I am closer to 52-54, I will be around 1.5. Cold fermenting at 48F needs more yeast and it's a good method as it prevents to precursor to diacetyl from forming, so no D-rest is needed. You just keep it at 48F until it's done.
When I used Urkel, I usually pitch at 50F, then let it free rise to 52, then after 2-3 days I raise it to 54 and 2-3 days later will start raising it 4° every 12 hours until I am at 68. Then I hold it there for 3 days and then slowly start bringing it down for a cold crash. If you pitch a proper pitch rate, a lager can easily be fully fermented in 6-7 days. If that happens, don't rush it off the yeast though, give the yeast time to clean up after itself. I try to keep my lagers on yeast for at least 14 days, sometimes up to 21. Then lager it for at least a month to clean up any remaining sulfur.
So being your first lager, just an FYI, don't expect a huge krausen like you get with ales. Many times with lagers, you will only get a krausen maybe 1 inch thick. Oh...and as to worrying about off-flavors from raising the temp to 68, it's not an issue...the yeast will have done most of it's work before you raise the temp and the risk of off-flavors will pretty much be gone by then.
Agreed. Try to lesson or remove the Crystal and use the malt suggested keeping your brew on the "crisp" side of mouthfeel & taste.Way too much crystal here in this thread. We continental Europeans didn't use crystal malt in our classic styles. Stay with pilsner, Munich, Vienna and roasted malts and you'll be good. No Cara something.
Glad to see you chime in man! I'll be the first to admit that while I haven't had an "authentic" dark Czech lager from breweries like U fleku etc, I've only had some solid beers from American breweries on this style. Im also under the assumption that us Americans tend to overthink and overdo some of these recipes anyways lol. But what confuses me about your statement is that in my own research to this style, I stumbled upon this article: There's a Czech Beer Brewers Are Obsessed With, And It's Not Pilsner and in this article the former brewmaster from U fleku recommends up to 15% Caramunich for this style. I do concede that adding victory/biscuit seems to be out-of-line with what the Czech's do, but can you please enlighten me on the "No Cara something" statement? If there are other links or if you have other info from other breweries in Europe brewing this style, I'd geniunely like to see them. Seems to me this beer style has a very wide range, at least based on BJCP 2015 standards. Appreciate your comments!Way too much crystal here in this thread. We continental Europeans didn't use crystal malt in our classic styles. Stay with pilsner, Munich, Vienna and roasted malts and you'll be good. No Cara something.
You are probably right about the Americanisation of almost everything European, beer wise. This does not mean that the result is a bad beer, APA is probably the one beer I would choose if I would have to choose only one beer style for live. But what it means is, that the result is different than the original.Glad to see you chime in man! I'll be the first to admit that while I haven't had an "authentic" dark Czech lager from breweries like U fleku etc, I've only had some solid beers from American breweries on this style. Im also under the assumption that us Americans tend to overthink and overdo some of these recipes anyways lol. But what confuses me about your statement is that in my own research to this style, I stumbled upon this article: There's a Czech Beer Brewers Are Obsessed With, And It's Not Pilsner and in this article the former brewmaster from U fleku recommends up to 15% Caramunich for this style. I do concede that adding victory/biscuit seems to be out-of-line with what the Czech's do, but can you please enlighten me on the "No Cara something" statement? If there are other links or if you have other info from other breweries in Europe brewing this style, I'd geniunely like to see them. Seems to me this beer style has a very wide range, at least based on BJCP 2015 standards. Appreciate your comments!
Thanks I appreciate the input! My recipe is mostly all figured out now, just need to settle on my water profile I am targeting. From my research on water profiles it seems that everything is quite low especially Ca and Na and then Cl favored over SO4. Thoughts?
really appreciate the input man! I will have a low "softish" water profile in mind but I use my tap water and adjust so the adjusted profile won't be as low as these specs but I think I'll be in the neighborhood anyways. Your input on Ca and Na is very helpful! I am planning on some residual sweetness due to FG targeting 1.014-1.015ish. Don't have Sinamar and will be using carafe special II and holding it at 4% only. For this first attempt at this recipe I am going with a step mash as I really don't want to try a new technique that Im not familiar with with decoction (plus I only have one burner). The protein rest recommendation "may" be outdated, not sure. But I did look up the floor malted pilsner and dark malts that I am using and according to Weyermann's specs these malts have Kolbach indexes between 36-45 which seems to fall in the "less-modified to well modified" malt categories from what I understand so I think I will skip the protein rest considering they don't seem to be "under-modified". If you think the benefit of protein rest that my "rookie" expertise did not detect, I'd be all ears. I use the anvil foundry so step mashing is easy but I ramp temps rather slowly so as to avoid element scorching as I don't recirculate that fast. Other benefits of the protein rest I am not anticipating?Yes definitely want soft water...I usually go with something like Ca 22, Mg 8, Na 0, SO4 32, Cl 40. Usually get there with just calcium chloride and some epsom salt where I use distilled water as my base. We all learn that you want at least 50 ppm Calcium for yeast health etc, but it's really not needed in lagers per Martin Brungard who created the Bru'n Water spreadsheet and knows water profiles like the back of his hand.
I know you have your recipe pretty much dialed in, but one other tip I can give you, comes from the owner of Notch brewery here in Mass, a lager brewery that make fantastic Czech and German lagers. He recommends that Czech Dark lagers should have some residual sweetness and not be super roasty and to target medium body. He suggests Pilsner malt, Munich and Vienna and then to get the color by using Sinamar, which is a coloring agent made from Carafa malts. He also recommends doing decoction for any Czech beers over 10° P or around 1.040, but a step mash is OK too. And lastly he stays if using Floor Malted pilsner to add a protein rest at 120F Now a lot of these tips come from a video interview from over ten years ago, so he may use different methods at the brewery now, but it will still help you make a great lager.
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