Anyone else annoyed with newer breweries using cans?

[ZebulonBrewer]

That's amazing. So are you saying that they prime and carbonate in the can? Given how flimsy those cans are I would not have imagined they would hold the pressure generated by carbonation without getting distorted.

Would be interested to hear more from anyone with pro experience around this.

How would the can get distorted from getting pressurized?Soda/pop/carbonated sugary beverages are carbonated to a far higher pressure, AND it's done rapidly as they're going down the packaging line.

We had a pretty cool lab experiment in my undergraduate mechanics class where we applied two strain gages to a pop can (one longitudinal and one radial) while they were full so we could measure the strain reduction in the metal upon opening (the metal does stretch slightly, or in this case, contract). Using some simple equations, we then backed out the pressure in the can. I don't remember the value, because this was 9 years ago, but it was a cool experiment.

Anyway, back to the original post, I have found it aggravating when I am trying to increase my stock of bottles, but in general, I like the canned beers I've gotten from Mad Tree, Rhinegheist, and Jackie O's.

 

[Spartan300man]

How about this packaging?

That's what I'm talking about! I could tell what it was within the critical "consumer 3 seconds". I didn't have to weed through a Japanese Anime cartoon or a Monty Python animation of two knights battling without arms to understand it was a cream ale and a single hop IPA.

 

[Spartan300man]

Take the 3 second test and see if you can tell what style of beer these are....

 

[GrogNerd]

Take the 3 second test and see if you can tell what style of beer these are....

all pretty easy

 

[BrotherBock]

Not annoyed in the slightest. Plenty of free bottles out there for the picking. Reuse my homebrew bottles all the time. Get them from friends.

Cans are great for outdoors activities (canoeing, camping, hiking, beach, etc)

 

[ShredOrDie]

I prefer cans to bottles because they aren't fragile and they can go anywhere, and I usually end up pouring my beer into a glass any way so it doesn't really matter much what it comes in.

 

[Hello]

All the new craft breweries in my state use cans instead of bottles this sucks! Now I have to choose between supporting local breweries and bottling from my keg which I do quite often. When touring a local brewery the tour guide was talking bout how much "better for the environment" cans are... I just scoffed and thought yeah right your doing it because it's cheaper.

That is downright inane. Bottling from your keg and supporting local breweries is a weird comparison. Not to mention, who the fuq cares if the brewery decided to can because it was cheaper? FYI on that, a canning line is NOT cheaper to start up than bottling. While the cost per can may be cheaper than the cost per bottle, the line itself is expensive.

I for one love cans. Beach, golfing, camping, shipping, grilling out, etc etc. All of these things that I do involve beer and given the choice to lug a can or a bottle, I will choose can every time.

Posts like this are why I may migrate to the AHA forum permanently.

See ya later, dude.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

because some people (read this thread) won't drink from the cans, since they associate it with lower quality. But younger crowds, especially outdoorsy kind, will prefer cans. If you sell both, you can get both markets.

Also, if you sell both, you take up more shelf space at the grocery store, crowding out the competition.

Why else would you need a six-pack, a twelve-pack, an eighteen-pack, a case, and a 30-pack, all of cans, and a similar variety in bottles? It's all about consuming valuable real estate...

 

[m00ps]

This thread it going to reach epic ridiculousness just like "Whats up with commerical IPAs" and "**** beer/brewery is overrated"

 

[drainbamage]

This thread it going to reach epic ridiculousness just like "Whats up with commerical IPAs" and "**** beer/brewery is overrated"

"Going to"...?

 

[PlexVector]

As the story goes (and this might be myth), Corona's are "skunked" due to their clear bottles. But because this is a flavor that people are looking for, the bottles were never changed to brown, even after the effect was understood. If that's true, then the canned version should taste different (tastes better? that's in the eye of the beerholder).

Maybe that's where the prerequisite lime comes about...

 

[PlexVector]

I read somewhere, I don't remember where, that they even expose the beer going into the cans to some artificial light source to try and replicate the "skunk" factor.

I could not find any skunkiness in it. I think that's why I was so pleasantly surprised. I don't recall the chemical process with light; anyone recall if a lite beer would be more, less, or same perceptible to light?

edit:
Found it: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2001-10/uonc-ucf101701.php
A chemical reaction with the hops.

 

[passedpawn]

I could not find any skunkiness in it. I think that's why I was so pleasantly surprised. I don't recall the chemical process with light; anyone recall if a lite beer would be more, less, or same perceptible to light?

edit:
Found it: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2001-10/uonc-ucf101701.php
A chemical reaction with the hops.

It's the hop oils (or something hop-related) that causes the skunking. So, presumably, hoppier beers would be more affected.

I think Coors now has some process that eliminates this skunking altogether, but I can't remember what it is they do.

 

[GHBWNY]

The only reason I like cans are; they are lighter, you can take them to the beach/pool and you can pack them in and pack them out more easily.

Exactly what the craft brew companies are thinking.

 

[Psylocide]

It's the hop oils (or something hop-related) that causes the skunking. So, presumably, hoppier beers would be more affected.

I think Coors now has some process that eliminates this skunking altogether, but I can't remember what it is they do.

It's very interesting. When I did my experiment, I did bottles at 2, 4 and 6 hours to see how different amounts of time affected the skunkiness. They all tasted the same.

Talked to a user here that said 5 mins would probably get the job done, and it absolutely did. It's a very quick reaction.

 

[passedpawn]

It's very interesting. When I did my experiment, I did bottles at 2, 4 and 6 hours to see how different amounts of time affected the skunkiness. They all tasted the same.

Talked to a user here that said 5 mins would probably get the job done, and it absolutely did. It's a very quick reaction.

Yea, I remember reading that it only takes minutes. Amazing, really. I brew outdoors. Makes me wonder.

 

[PlexVector]

Yea, I remember reading that it only takes minutes. Amazing, really. I brew outdoors. Makes me wonder.

I thinking I may start using the colored liquid lines on my picnic taps...

 

[passedpawn]

That's amazing. So are you saying that they prime and carbonate in the can? Given how flimsy those cans are I would not have imagined they would hold the pressure generated by carbonation without getting distorted.

Would be interested to hear more from anyone with pro experience around this.

In case anybody still cares, this morning I emailed Steve Dresler, Sierra Nevada's head brewer, and asked him. Here's his response.

Steve, Does SN add yeast to their canned SNPA? If so, does this added yeast carbonate the beer in the can? Or is the beer carbonated during canning, and the yeast is added just to act as a O2 scavenger?

Hi Andrew,
Yes, Pale Ale in the can is treated exactly like the bottle, same yeast count and carbonation in the can.
Cheers

 

[55x11]

Maybe that's where the prerequisite lime comes about...

actually I read somewhere this is precisely the case. Lime helps mask some of that skunky flavor.

 

[RPCidery]

In case anybody still cares, this morning I emailed Steve Dresler, Sierra Nevada's head brewer, and asked him. Here's his response.

Not surprising considering pressure is pressure, and it takes pressure to keep CO2 in solution. All else being equal, there isn't any more pressure in a bottle conditioned brew than there is in a force-carbed brew.

 

[Yesfan]

That's amazing. So are you saying that they prime and carbonate in the can? Given how flimsy those cans are I would not have imagined they would hold the pressure generated by carbonation without getting distorted.

Would be interested to hear more from anyone with pro experience around this.

I know Passedpawned and others have already replied, but I can say from experience, that cans are able to hold more pressure than you think. Back in the 90s, I worked at Coca-Cola and they were using a fluted can design for their classic and caffeine free classic (red and gold respectively). The cans were much thinner than others and had no problems at all holding pressure. The drawback was when you opened the can. Once open, it was very flimsy due to the thinner walls of the can.

Today's water bottles are a good comparison. Compare the bottle Coke uses for their Dasani water to the the bottles used by the likes of Sam's Choice, Southern Home (BiLo), etc. The bottles of the off brands are extremely thin, but you don't realize that until the bottle is opened.

 

[cubalz]

...you can buy beer?

Now that is good!

 

[Kirkwooder]

I thinking I may start using the colored liquid lines on my picnic taps...

Try some wire looms like these to cover the lines. They are available in a ton of colors.

http://www.cabletiesandmore.com/wir...2FdoPAFCN4FI8CpuOr35qZv_CxubVz-8T4aAjqf8P8HAQ

 

[DurtyChemist]

Take the 3 second test and see if you can tell what style of beer these are....

Anniversary ale, maple nut brown ale, imperical porter, pale ales, pale lager...yeah it isn't that. It's all right there at the bottom of the label. 3 seconds is a long time to look at a label.

 

[beersk]

I'm not annoyed with craft breweries using cans. Your annoyance is petty and frivolous. Move on.

 

[Spartan300man]

Anniversary ale, maple nut brown ale, imperical porter, pale ales, pale lager...yeah it isn't that. It's all right there at the bottom of the label. 3 seconds is a long time to look at a label.

On a flat screen 12 inches from your face, perhaps easier. On a can or bottle on a store shelf, not so easy. But what is an anniversary ale? What is an Imperical porter? Can't find them in the BJCP style guidelines.

 

[GrogNerd]

another half second looking at those and you would notice the anniversary ale is a India-style Brown Ale and the Empirical Stout is an oak-aged stout

and both should be avoided because they can't be shoehorned into anything in one style guideline

 

[kombat]

It's the hop oils (or something hop-related) that causes the skunking. So, presumably, hoppier beers would be more affected.

I think Coors now has some process that eliminates this skunking altogether, but I can't remember what it is they do.

They leave out the hops?

 

[ncbrewer]

This article answers a lot of questions about skunked beer: http://www.professorbeer.com/articles/skunked_beer.html

 

[RPCidery]

This article answers a lot of questions about skunked beer: http://www.professorbeer.com/articles/skunked_beer.html

Good article. I avoided imports for a long time because they were always skunked.

 

[Newsman]

I was at a local brewpub last night. They can their beer one can at a time for to-go orders. Very nifty to watch. They spray santizer in the can, fill full of CO2, then using a growler filler, they fill the can up, put a top on it and put it in the machine. Voila', instant can of beer.

 

[drainbamage]

I was at a local brewpub last night. They can their beer one can at a time for to-go orders. Very nifty to watch. They spray santizer in the can, fill full of CO2, then using a growler filler, they fill the can up, put a top on it and put it in the machine. Voila', instant can of beer.

Like 12 oz. cans, or 32 oz. "Crowlers"?

 

[Newsman]

Like 12 oz. cans, or 32 oz. "Crowlers"?

Not sure what size they are, but they're pretty tall... I was thinking maybe 20 oz or more. May have been 32 oz. Dunno

 

[slym2none]

When posting this thread I didn't think so many people would think I hate cans, I should've clarified a bit better.

It was a joke... by the time I posted that, it was pretty obvious not many people had problems with cans. My bad for not clarifying.

 

[drainbamage]

Not sure what size they are, but they're pretty tall... I was thinking maybe 20 oz or more. May have been 32 oz. Dunno

There are a few places in my area that do the 32 oz. cans. One recently went back to doing only glass growlers and howlers (not sure if it was because they temporarily ran out of crowler cans or some other reason). Pic below, although it's hard to get a real feel of the scale since the glass is also huge.

Doing individual fills on 12 or 16 oz. cans at the tap station seems way too time consuming to be productive.

View attachment 1440074055300.jpg

 

[beersk]

There are a few places in my area that do the 32 oz. cans. One recently went back to doing only glass growlers and howlers (not sure if it was because they temporarily ran out of crowler cans or some other reason). Pic below, although it's hard to get a real feel of the scale since the glass is also huge.

Doing individual fills on 12 or 16 oz. cans at the tap station seems way too time consuming to be productive.

Agreed. I've seen this new "thing" hit my area recently. It seemed silly to me, a novelty. And it wasn't even a good deal. $9 for a 32oz can...that's insane. Who are these fools that buy into this sh*t? It's so much more wasteful than having someone bring in their own growler also.

 

[drainbamage]

Agreed. I've seen this new "thing" hit my area recently. It seemed silly to me, a novelty. And it wasn't even a good deal. $9 for a 32oz can...that's insane. Who are these fools that buy into this sh*t? It's so much more wasteful than having someone bring in their own growler also.

I will say it is amusing to walk into a party, say "yeah, I'm only having one tonight," then pull out and crack open a comically large beer can.

Otherwise yes, I'd rather just fill a growler. The only real benefit to the can is if you're somehow worried about the glass being broken.

 

[Spartan300man]

Agreed. I've seen this new "thing" hit my area recently. It seemed silly to me, a novelty. And it wasn't even a good deal. $9 for a 32oz can...that's insane. Who are these fools that buy into this sh*t?

Have you been into Costco lately? Costco is now one of the largest retailers of wine. They have always had cases of beer, but now most of them have a wood display with about 20 craft beers, 22/24 oz bomber sizes, all are in glass. The prices range from about $4.99 for the absolute cheapest, and most are around $5.99 to $6.99, some being $9.99. I was there yesterday and they had Stone Ruination Double IPA, Stone triple IPA, Green Flash IPA, Gigantic IPA, I think I saw Dirty Bastard, Firestone Wookey Jack, Chimay, and various other Stouts and Belgian ales.
Although the Stone Ruination is a nice beer, the bottle is silkscreened instead of labeled, so when I use if for homebrew I make sure that I dont give that one away.

 

[RmikeVT]

All the new craft breweries in my state use cans instead of bottles this sucks! Now I have to choose between supporting local breweries and bottling from my keg which I do quite often. When touring a local brewery the tour guide was talking bout how much "better for the environment" cans are... I just scoffed and thought yeah right your doing it because it's cheaper.

Cans are much better for the environment and require much less energy (fuel, electricty, etc) per ounce of beer to get to your refrigerator. You can fit many more cans on a truck or container and they are much much lighter.

They are also much better at keeping beer fresh. No light, no oxygen seeping in around the cap, won't go flat if aged, the list goes on to the advantages of cans. Canning is cheaper in the long run, but much more expensive to start up a canning line than to start up a bottle line.

I am a big can fan. There still plenty of beers available in bottles, so quit complaining.

 

[joshesmusica]

Wait so can you get the same skunkiness from brewing outside then? I thought it was very common to brew outside.
Mainly wondering because where I'm brewing now, the sink that I chill in is right by a window. I've been shutting the blinds, but then got to thinking about how many people brew outside. But it should technically be dangerous if the concept is the same right? Or is it after the yeast gets ahold of these isoalphaacids that the problem occurs?