Anyone brewing Brut IPA?

[jakturner]

I just wanted to report back on the use of Beano. Went from 1.055 to 1.004 so not completely dry but pretty dry. I just put it in the fridge tonight, it was naturally carbed with a spunding so should be really soon. I’ll report back when it is. judging from the samples it’s gonna be a pretty good one.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Enzyme comparison case to report!

I made a beer with WLP644, WY 5526 (primary with starter) and Lacto.
It finished at 1.004 pH 3.34.
I added a basic enzyme (cleaves 1,4 linkages). It did nothing.
Still at 1.004 after several weeks.
I added Amylo 300 (cleaves 1,4 and 1,6 linkages). It started fermenting again quickly.
Finished at 1.000. Tastes amazing, of course.

 

[isomerization]

Quick update on my batch, picture attached. I think the haze is from the 8 oz dry hop? No particulates that I see and definitely not yeast.

Flavor profile is super clean (first time with Hornindal). I’m very happy with level (or lack) of bitterness, so I’d recommend the amount of IBUs. It’s a pleasant style of beer, but it won’t become my go to.

Will report back with more input from my homebrew club (KC Biermeisters) when I share it next week.

 

[Vad3r]

I'm trying one of these tomorrow. I might have overdone the grains a bit and hit a higher OG than I am intending. Will see what happens.

9.5 lbs Pilsner
1 lb flaked corn
1 lb flaked rice
.25 oz Azacca (12% AA) 15 minutes boil
.15 oz Amarillo (8% AA) 15 minutes boil
1.65 oz Azacca 40 min whirlpool @ 170 degrees
1.40 oz Amarillo 40 min whirlpool @ 170 degrees
2 oz Azacca dryhop
2 oz Amarillo dryhop
WY1056

Should be 25.1 IBU and target OG is 1.53

Plan is to mash at 145 and add the enzyme after mash and before boil at 144 degrees for 30 minutes. If need be I will add some to the fermentor but I am hoping not to have to as the article I read from Social Brewery said they get a better hop character without adding the enzyme to the fermentor.

 

[snowtiger1987]

Brewing this tomorrow:

For 10 gallons:

.25 lbs Acid malt
1 lb Wheat malt
20.5 lbs Pale Malt

Mash in and 120 and slowing ramp up to 148 for 60 minutes. Mash out at 168.

1oz Citra for 75 minutes
1oz Loral cryo hops, 1oz Amarillo, and 1oz Citra whirlpool

Safale US-05 for primary ferment
Add Amylo 300 after 7 days

2oz Citra and 2oz Amarillo dry-hop

Shooting for OG 1.060 and FG .997 for 8.2% abv (so an Imperial Brut IPA)

Do y'all think that is enough hops?

 

[WiscoBrewer]

Brewing this tomorrow:

For 10 gallons:

.25 lbs Acid malt
1 lb Wheat malt
20.5 lbs Pale Malt

Mash in and 120 and slowing ramp up to 148 for 60 minutes. Mash out at 168.

1oz Citra for 75 minutes
1oz Loral cryo hops, 1oz Amarillo, and 1oz Citra whirlpool

Safale US-05 for primary ferment
Add Amylo 300 after 7 days

2oz Citra and 2oz Amarillo dry-hop

Shooting for OG 1.060 and FG .997 for 8.2% abv (so an Imperial Brut IPA)

Do y'all think that is enough hops?

It looks good, except the 75min addition. I’d take that and split it between the whirlpool and dry hop or maybe 5min or flameout. It will be way too many IBU’s...but then I just realized this was a 10gallon batch. In that case you need to double your hop additions, what you have is what I’d do for a 5 gallon batch.

I’ve been curious myself about wheat malt instead of rice or corn.

 

[doug293cz]

Brewing this tomorrow:

For 10 gallons:

.25 lbs Acid malt
1 lb Wheat malt
20.5 lbs Pale Malt

Mash in and 120 and slowing ramp up to 148 for 60 minutes. Mash out at 168.

1oz Citra for 75 minutes
1oz Loral cryo hops, 1oz Amarillo, and 1oz Citra whirlpool

Safale US-05 for primary ferment
Add Amylo 300 after 7 days

2oz Citra and 2oz Amarillo dry-hop

Shooting for OG 1.060 and FG .997 for 8.2% abv (so an Imperial Brut IPA)

Do y'all think that is enough hops?

What's the reason for waiting 7 days to add the Amylo 300?

Brew on

 

[rjs3273]

What's the reason for waiting 7 days to add the Amylo 300?

I am interested in that too because I did exactly the same thing on my first and only play with these enzymes and had absolutely no good reason for doing it at all! It just 'felt right' to let the yeast do it's thing on the ordinary wort first. It is fun to get a gravity reading of the FG without enzyme and then add it to see how much it drops.

 

[doug293cz]

I am interested in that too because I did exactly the same thing on my first and only play with these enzymes and had absolutely no good reason for doing it at all! It just 'felt right' to let the yeast do it's thing on the ordinary wort first. It is fun to get a gravity reading of the FG without enzyme and then add it to see how much it drops.

Yeah, if you want to see the FG delta, and are willing to wait the extra time for fermentation, then adding at first FG is a valid reason. I'm not aware of any technical benefits to adding the enzyme late however. I added at pitch, and am very happy with the results.

Brew on

 

[matzou]

Sorry for the question if it has been asked previously:

Would you consider a grist of 80/20 2 row/table sugar mashed very low as an alternative to the use of enzyme ? (predicted fg 1.002) I had very good luck with a BGSA with this grist so I was thinking if what we want is simple sugar why not just use them directly ?

Full recipe
30min boil
80% Simpson 2 row
20% table sugar
s05
100/50 so4 to cacl

El dorado / Vic sec: 5g/L @ whirlpool (80c)
El dorado / Vic sec: 4g/L @ dry hop

Probably will step feed the fugar as I did with BGSA with 7-8% at end of boil and the rest when fermentation is slowing down and then spunding.

I red that due to the dry finish the hopping rate should be way lower than normal, does this look fine ?

 

[cheesebach]

I red that due to the dry finish the hopping rate should be way lower than normal, does this look fine ?

I did a 4.5 gallon batch with 3.5 ounces in the WP and 4 ounce dry hop and the hop character wasn’t nearly enough. Warmed the beer back up to 65F, added 2 ounces more dry hop in the keg for 4 days and then transferred to another serving keg after crashing to drop the hops out. Much better with the additional dry hop addition. Next time I’ll just go with a 1.25oz/gallon dry hop from the start.

 

[isomerization]

My version is way hazier than I’d like, but the 8 oz dry hop was worth it.

Also, I’d highly recommend keeping IBUs below 30.

 

[cheesebach]

My version is way hazier than I’d like, but the 8 oz dry hop was worth it.

Also, I’d highly recommend keeping IBUs below 30.

Mine looks pretty similar to the one you posted a few days back. I used a total of 6oz dry hops for a 4.5 gallon batch, so nothing crazy for an IPA.

Based on my experience with the NEIPAs, I’m leaning towards hop oils or other hop compounds (ones that are normally boiled off nearly immediately when added at boiling temps) being present during fermentation as the primary contributor to the NEIPA “perma-haze”. I did a whirlpool with 3.5 oz hops at 160F for this batch. The dry hops were all added post fermentation. My theory is that a low temp whirlpool or dry hop during active fermentation can both provide the necessary compounds to produce this interaction with the yeast.

All of the more traditional IPAs I’ve done have been much clearer and used the same or more hops per gallon. I used whirlfloc, 2:1 SO4/Cl ratio, chico yeast - nothing else in my process for this beer I can think of would account for the haze other than the lowish-temp whirlpool.

What temps did you add your WP hops and when did you dry hop? FYI - the picture attached has been in the keg for 4 weeks, so that haze isn’t dropping anytime soon.

 

[isomerization]

Mine looks pretty similar to the one you posted a few days back. I used a total of 6oz dry hops for a 4.5 gallon batch, so nothing crazy for an IPA.

Based on my experience with the NEIPAs, I’m leaning towards hop oils or other hop compounds (ones that are normally boiled off nearly immediately when added at boiling temps) being present during fermentation as the primary contributor to the NEIPA “perma-haze”. I did a whirlpool with 3.5 oz hops at 160F for this batch. The dry hops were all added post fermentation. My theory is that a low temp whirlpool or dry hop during active fermentation can both provide the necessary compounds to produce this interaction with the yeast.

All of the more traditional IPAs I’ve done have been much clearer and used the same or more hops per gallon. I used whirlfloc, 2:1 SO4/Cl ratio, chico yeast - nothing else in my process for this beer I can think of would account for the haze other than the lowish-temp whirlpool.

What temps did you add your WP hops and when did you dry hop? FYI - the picture attached has been in the keg for 4 weeks, so that haze isn’t dropping anytime soon.View attachment 592600

Pretty much the same as you! So guess this won’t be a pretty clear beer lol

 

[snowtiger1987]

It looks good, except the 75min addition. I’d take that and split it between the whirlpool and dry hop or maybe 5min or flameout. It will be way too many IBU’s...but then I just realized this was a 10gallon batch. In that case you need to double your hop additions, what you have is what I’d do for a 5 gallon batch.

I’ve been curious myself about wheat malt instead of rice or corn.

Alright. Just started boil. First hop addition in 10 minutes.

 

[snowtiger1987]

Wheat just for head retention. So now the hop schedule is this:

Centennial - 1oz - 75 minutes
Whirlpool:
Amarillo - 1.5oz
Centennial - 1.5oz
Citra - 1.5oz
Loral Cryro Hops - 1oz (cause that's all I have)

Sound reasonable?

 

[snowtiger1987]

1.048 gravity start of boil.

1.062 OG of beer.

 

[snowtiger1987]

What's the reason for waiting 7 days to add the Amylo 300?

Brew on

That is what I have read about it.

 

[doug293cz]

That is what I have read about it.

Did what you read give a rationale for waiting so long into fermentation? Do you have a reference for where you read it?

Brew on

 

[snowtiger1987]

Did what you read give a rationale for waiting so long into fermentation? Do you have a reference for where you read it?

Brew on

I read it on the blogs here. Also, I talked with 2 pro brewers about it and that is what they did.

Plus, according to Amazon, mine might not arrive until later this week.

 

[cheesebach]

I read it on the blogs here. Also, I talked with 2 pro brewers about it and that is what they did.

Plus, according to Amazon, mine might not arrive until later this week.

I think the primary motivation for commercial brewers to delay adding the enzyme is to allow for harvesting the yeast from the fermenter. If you have no plans to harvest the yeast, I haven’t seen any other reason to delay adding it until after fermentation. That being said, it probably doesn’t make much difference in the finished beer either way - just means more time in the fermenter when adding it late.

 

[cactusgarrett]

I brewed a brut with a local commercial brewer near me, and he added the enzyme a couple days into primary fermentation. He noted that the addition of the powder created nucleation sites and it foamed up - so much so that he worried that it blew out much of what he added in the first place.

THAT could be one reason pros don't do it until later into primary.

 

[isomerization]

I brewed a brut with a local commercial brewer near me, and he added the enzyme a couple days into primary fermentation. He noted that the addition of the powder created nucleation sites and it foamed up - so much so that he worried that it blew out much of what he added in the first place.

THAT could be one reason pros don't do it until later into primary.

I added mine when pitching the yeast for precisely this reason.

 

[divrack]

Tsk, ye yanks, i tell thee... If you're not adding ffing lactose to over sweeten your Beers you're adding enzymes to dry them out too much.
What's wrong with a nice warm pint of standard brown ale and a packet of cheese and onion crisps?
Also cheese has no need to come in a can dispensed format.
Also its films not movies. Or should we all stay modern and settle on ' talkies?'.

I'm just angry because I spent my luxury fancy Friday beer budget on a bad brut pineapple ipa. I should have known better, I should have known.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Tsk, ye yanks, i tell thee... If you're not adding ffing lactose to over sweeten your Beers you're adding enzymes to dry them out too much.
What's wrong with a nice warm pint of standard brown ale and a packet of cheese and onion crisps?
Also cheese has no need to come in a can dispensed format.
Also its films not movies. Or should we all stay modern and settle on ' talkies?'.

I'm just angry because I spent my luxury fancy Friday beer budget on a bad brut pineapple ipa. I should have known better, I should have known.

I'll have you know I have quite the soft spot for a pint of Fuller's ESB [emoji6]

 

[doug293cz]

I think the primary motivation for commercial brewers to delay adding the enzyme is to allow for harvesting the yeast from the fermenter. If you have no plans to harvest the yeast, I haven’t seen any other reason to delay adding it until after fermentation. That being said, it probably doesn’t make much difference in the finished beer either way - just means more time in the fermenter when adding it late.

I think you're right about the reason for commercial brewers to add enzymes later in the fermentation.

I brewed a brut with a local commercial brewer near me, and he added the enzyme a couple days into primary fermentation. He noted that the addition of the powder created nucleation sites and it foamed up - so much so that he worried that it blew out much of what he added in the first place.

THAT could be one reason pros don't do it until later into primary.

The Amylo 300 I have is liquid, so no worries about nucleation when adding (but I added at pitch so it's moot for me.)

Brew on

 

[snowtiger1987]

Well I received it today so maybe I will add it in day #4 of fermentation.

Update: Added Amylo 300 on day #4 of fermentation/

 

[Andre3000]

I love new styles! I tried this one last night. One was a pretty decent example of the style and the other was perhaps a bit too close to an NEIPA.

My LBHS only has amylase and alpha amylase. I'm looking for alternatives to the amylo 300 / White Labs Ultra ferm enzyme route. I could of course get some shipped in but where's the fun in that?

I was thinking of doughing in low, raising to 145 and holding to ensure a high degree of fermentability. Then pitch either a mix of WY1272 (or 1056) and WY3724 (Belgian saison) or pitch the WY1272 and after primary tapers off, pitch the WY3724 and raising the temp quite aggressively to ensure attenuation. My last saison finished at 1.003. I'm hoping with the blend, you'll get only a small amount of saison character, but I could be out to lunch.

Thoughts?

 

[snowtiger1987]

You can brew what you want but the emerging consensus on Brut IPA is that it needs to be super clean from a fermentation standpoint. Using a Saison yeast will likely result in phenols that are not appropriate, even in small amounts. However, if that is what you want, go for it.

 

[isomerization]

https://www.homebrewing.org/FermFas...MI14vglJWO3gIVAgdpCh0PCgLfEAQYAiABEgLirvD_BwE

This is what I used, super cheap and worked great.

 

[duelerx]

You can brew what you want but the emerging consensus on Brut IPA is that it needs to be super clean from a fermentation standpoint. Using a Saison yeast will likely result in phenols that are not appropriate, even in small amounts. However, if that is what you want, go for it.

Was thinking of trying super clean lager yeast.

 

[TravelingLight]

You can brew what you want but the emerging consensus on Brut IPA is that it needs to be super clean from a fermentation standpoint. Using a Saison yeast will likely result in phenols that are not appropriate, even in small amounts. However, if that is what you want, go for it.

I fermented my most recent brut with 3711...Granted, I did ferment it cooler (~68*, IIRC) to keep any phenols/esters at a minimum, even though I don't get a ton with 3711. My reason for using 3711 was, well, I love it. But other than that, we all know 3711 gets bone dry as is. But one of the things I've always liked about 3711 is as dry as it gets, it still leaves some body in the beer, IMO at least. I was very pleased with it and will definitely revisit that one.

 

[Andre3000]

You can brew what you want but the emerging consensus on Brut IPA is that it needs to be super clean from a fermentation standpoint. Using a Saison yeast will likely result in phenols that are not appropriate, even in small amounts. However, if that is what you want, go for it.

Anything worth doing is worth doing right. I'll get the enzyme.

I fermented my most recent brut with 3711...Granted, I did ferment it cooler (~68*, IIRC) to keep any phenols/esters at a minimum, even though I don't get a ton with 3711. My reason for using 3711 was, well, I love it. But other than that, we all know 3711 gets bone dry as is. But one of the things I've always liked about 3711 is as dry as it gets, it still leaves some body in the beer, IMO at least. I was very pleased with it and will definitely revisit that one.

Probably more reasons to stay away from 3724 is that is produces even more saison phenols/esters and people often have the dreaded 1.015 stall or whatever it is; I didn't experience it when I used it.

Thanks for swaying me in the right direction.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

It might be worth pitching 3711 as fermentation begins to wind down. You'll limit the flavor impact but still get the high attenuation. I've done that with TYB Dry Belgian before and it just obliterates whatever is left.

 

[snowtiger1987]

Checked gravity on day 12 - .996 and starting to clear. Doesn't taste too bitter. Will rack onto dry-hops tonight. 1oz Amarillo, 1oz Azacca, 1oz Centennial and 1oz Mosaic.

Should be on tap by next weekend !

 

[Andre3000]

Anyone use ultra-ferm yet? White-labs says 25 mL / 10 BBL! That's .29 mL for a 5 gallon batch . They say to add it at mash in.

I got my hands on some and may give this a go this weekend. That would be ideal if that addition alone brings it down to close to 1.000.

Most of you are doing fermenter additions, no?

 

[isomerization]

Anyone use ultra-ferm yet? White-labs says 25 mL / 10 BBL! That's .29 mL for a 5 gallon batch . They say to add it at mash in.

I got my hands on some and may give this a go this weekend. That would be ideal if that addition alone brings it down to close to 1.000.

Most of you are doing fermenter additions, no?

I wouldn’t worry about adding too much (within reason), the enzyme won’t ruin your batch.

I don’t see a downside to fermenter addition, the style calls for dry and that’s what you get!

EDIT: I entered my rendition as a 21B beer, will know the results in 2 weeks. It was received pretty well at my homebrew club meeting 2 weeks ago as well, so fingers crossed!

 

[doug293cz]

Anyone use ultra-ferm yet? White-labs says 25 mL / 10 BBL! That's .29 mL for a 5 gallon batch . They say to add it at mash in.

I got my hands on some and may give this a go this weekend. That would be ideal if that addition alone brings it down to close to 1.000.

Most of you are doing fermenter additions, no?

Ultra Ferm looks to be the same thing as Amylo 300, just repackaged. If that is indeed the case, then lots of folks have used it, and it works just as well in the fermenter. Lots of ways to skin a cat.

Brew on

 

[jaymosbeershack]

Just got my score sheet back from my Brut IPA. 36.5 with the main complaint being not enough co2. I know i lost some in the botteling process. One judge also sighted a slight asstringance. Over all pretty proud for the first attempt.

 

[enkamania]

Brewing my first one. The FG only got down to 1.009 from 1.053. I did use re-used yeast, so maybe it wasn't healthy enough. I also used amylase enzyme from LD Carlson, so maybe that wasn't the right stuff