Any UFC Fans Out there?

[ElPresidente77]

Couture may be old, but he's a veteran fighter. Beating Couture most definitely means something, especially if people are saying you're a fluke novelty. Heath Herring has banged with more top heavyweights than almost anyone! Fedor, Big Nog, Cro Cop, Kongo, Belfort, O'Brien... he doesn't win all that often, but he's seen A LOT. A lot more than Lesnar had to offer, that's for sure...

I think he'll keep Carwin on the ground... at least, he'd better if he doesn't want to get KTFO. If he beats Carwin, I think Velasquez will do him.

Look if you want to validate Lesnar in ANY way, you have to look at his 2nd fight with Mir. You cannot deny Mir's talent and he got destroyed. Don't mention Herring because that doesn't hold any weight, and I think Coture just got caught. I think if you put Coture up against Lesnar again, Coture wins.

 

[Beermaker]

Yea Brock lost his 1st fight to Mir. How do you think Mir got his leg? He got dropped and grabbed his leg. I was saying Brock has not lost since taking over, and has fought some decent fights. He is a bad mofo, prolly the baddest. He wont go toe to toe with Shane once he tates his power, but he will pound Shane into sumbission. I still like the California kid....Uriah Faber.

 

[ElPresidente77]

Yea Brock lost his 1st fight to Mir. How do you think Mir got his leg? He got dropped and grabbed his leg. I was saying Brock has not lost since taking over, and has fought some decent fights. He is a bad mofo, prolly the baddest. He wont go toe to toe with Shane once he tates his power, but he will pound Shane into sumbission. I still like the California kid....Uriah Faber.

I think you misread or I wasn't clear enough. My point was that if you are going to use fights as an example of why you think brock is good. I would stop using herring and start using his last fight against mir. Not the first.

I do however disagree that he's the baddest mofo. He beat herring yeah, big deal. He beat 80 year old coture. He simply matches up real well against mir and the only reason he lost the first is from a rookie mistake. Carwin is the only man in the ufc with hands bigger than lesnar and I guarantee he hits harder too. Joe Rogan once said that when carwin ground and pounds someone, you can feel the virbration in the floor. Lesnar has never fought anyone near his size, once he does you'll see how mediocre he really is.

 

[JoeMama]

Im going to have to agree with you BOTH regarding Lesnar. Lesnar is a bad mofo in the fact that he is a HUGE draw for UFC numbers. He is bringing over the die hard WWE fans and he is an already prevalent name in the households of a good portion of people. He is incredibly quick for his size and he DOES have legitimate wrestling (collegiate) credentials. So there is no denying that he has mass POTENTIAL. I totally disagree with how he was given the title shot so early in his career, and I agree that Herring will never be anything more than a gatekeeper, Couture is passed his prime (and should be fighting at LHW if at all) and Mir was a gatekeeper that had some highlight reels once upon a time but will never be what he COULD have been before his accident.

And Lesnar is a bad mofo - but Kimbo is going to have him beat. Its sad to see where the sport is going in this aspect. They are taking little talent having but well known names and GIVING them huge opportunities because they are well known.

THIS pisses me off because its the total opposite of what this sport originated as. You had a guy by the name of Royce Gracie who was not known at all, in the competition because he was the SMALLEST of the Gracies, who won it several times over. He EARNED his name and legacy. People like Lesnar and Fergeuson have been given these ops because they are a huge marketing draw.
-Me

 

[MrInternet]

Look if you want to validate Lesnar in ANY way, you have to look at his 2nd fight with Mir.

Agreed, but I'm not trying to validate Lesnar. He doesn't need it... he is what he is. I'm just of the opinion that not many people that have a strong opinion of him understand what he actually is. I think he's a freak of nature that all of his opponents have underestimated, and I think that as long as people keep underestimating him thinking of him as a "publicity stunt", he'll keep winning.

You cannot deny Mir's talent and he got destroyed. Don't mention Herring because that doesn't hold any weight, and I think Coture just got caught.

Agree on Mir. I still don't understand why people discount Herring being a force to be reckoned with. Granted, he's not a serious contender, but he has gone toe to toe with the world's top heavyweights, period. Regardless of his record, having fought THAT level of talent time and time again, he is MUCH better prepared to face any number of skills and tactics than what anyone would expect Lesnar to be able to bring to the ring... I agree he's a gatekeeper at best in the UFC, but he's had enough experience to be able to easily dismiss anything Lesnar has to offer. I'm just saying beating him means something, that's all.

And yeah, it broke my heart to see Couture get caught. That particular strike was a bell-ringer, and that's game over with Lesnar's speed.

I think if you put Coture up against Lesnar again, Coture wins.

I wish I could agree with you. I'm like Couture's biggest fan... I wouldn't deny it if you called me a nuthugger. However, I can't see any way on earth he can beat Lesnar. Stand-up, Lesnar wins hands down. Wrestling... well, they are both world-class wrestlers and Lesnar has 45 pounds on Randy... not a chance. I don't see a victory for Couture in there anywhere unless he manages to get him to the ground and against the cage at the same time, which he's arguably the best in the world at, and just pounding him out while his neck's cranked. Other than that (and that's a huge IF), I don't see it... Lesnar is a new breed, just like Couture was.

 

[cercueil]

Light Heavyweight Championship bout: Lyoto Machida vs. Mauricio Rua
Heavyweight bout: Cain Velasquez vs. Ben Rothwell
Lightweight bout: Gleison Tibau vs. Josh Neer
Lightweight bout: Joe Stevenson vs. Spencer Fisher
Welterweight bout: Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida

I haven't seen Anthony Johnson fight too much and it looks like Yoshida has more experience then him. He's been in there with Hardy and Koscheck so I have to give this one to Yoshida.

I'm a fan of Joe Stevenson although in his fight with Sanchez I didn't see much of anything. He threw only punches and hardly attempted takedowns, knees, kicks..etc..He has lost to big named guys (Florian, Penn) so he does have a lot of experience in the octagon. Unless Daddy changes his style and brings it I think he'll lose to Fisher.

I don't know too much about Tibau but I've seen Neer fight a few times and it looks like he has more experience in the UFC. Tibau fought mostly in Brazil which is great for Jiu-Jitsu but MMA is a whole different ball game.

Cain vs. Rothwell..I have to give this one to Cain. Rothwell has more experience but Cain looked really good fighting Congo in the last fight.

The battle of the Brazilians..This one should be good but I think Machida wins here. He's beaten Evans and T. Silva without really breaking a sweat. Shogun beat Lidell (towards the end or the end of his career) and beat Nogueira in '05 but lost to Griffen in '07.

 

[cercueil]

Please do not read below if you do not want to know the results of UFC 104.....................................................................................................


OK..Well I only picked 2 out of 5 fights correctly and 1 of them probably shoudn't have been a correct one. Lets start with Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida. Wow..Yoshida basically got KTFO. Johnson has some heavy hands and I have no clue how he is a welterweight (Although he didn''t make weight for the fight)

Joe Stevenson vs. Spencer Fisher - Joe Daddy definitely brought it and took care of Fisher. He used his wrestling to take Fisher down and rained down some nice elbows.

Gleison Tibau vs. Josh Neer - This one went the distance but Tibau looked like he was 180..Unbelievable size on this guy..Neer had no answer for his relentless take downs and basically he won the fight by take downs. Neer was great off of his back and sustained no damage but coudn't put up any offense against Gleison

Cain Velasquez vs. Ben Rothwell - Cain was impressive in this win and simply went crazy on Ben. Rothwell has a lot of heart and tried to stay in there but Cain was just too much. I assume Cain will be the next to fight Lesnar after Carwin?

Lyoto Machida vs. Mauricio Rua - Wow this was unbelievable. I don't know what fight the judges were looking at. Machida won maybe 1 round..Even if you give him 2...And I really mean give him 2 rounds..Shogun is clearly the winner. I thought scoring is based on Striking, Grappling, Aggression and Octagon control. Shogun clearly won all of these categories. Machidas legs were beat up. He wasn't aggressive at all. He was tired. Shogun's kicks I thought were what would have won the fight. Please don't tell me this is going to be like boxing. I stopped watching boxing in 1999 after the Lewis - Holyfield fight. These were the stats of that match:

According to a punch count, Lewis landed 348 of 613 punches for a connection rate of 57 percent. Holyfield connected on 130 of 385 punches, or 34 percent.

Lewis landed nearly triple the punches but its a draw..Doesn't make sense. I would like to see the punch/kicks thrown and landed stat for Shogun and Machida.

On a side note - UFC 105 is free believe it or not and is on Nov 14th. UFC 106 is on Nov 21st but Lesnar is out sick so the main event is Ortiz/Griffen.

 

[Anthony_Lopez]

Please do not read below if you do not want to know the results of UFC 104.....................................................................................................

Cain Velasquez vs. Ben Rothwell - Cain was impressive in this win and simply went crazy on Ben. Rothwell has a lot of heart and tried to stay in there but Cain was just too much. I assume Cain will be the next to fight Lesnar after Carwin?

Lyoto Machida vs. Mauricio Rua - Wow this was unbelievable. I don't know what fight the judges were looking at. Machida won maybe 1 round..Even if you give him 2...And I really mean give him 2 rounds..Shogun is clearly the winner. I thought scoring is based on Striking, Grappling, Aggression and Octagon control. Shogun clearly won all of these categories. Machidas legs were beat up. He wasn't aggressive at all. He was tired. Shogun's kicks I thought were what would have won the fight. Please don't tell me this is going to be like boxing.

On a side note - UFC 105 is free believe it or not and is on Nov 14th. UFC 106 is on Nov 21st but Lesnar is out sick so the main event is Ortiz/Griffen.

The Velasquez fight was expected. He dominated Rothwell.

As for Shogun v. Machida, I have absolutely no clue what happened with that fight. Machida was unexpectedly docile in the fight. I expected this to be one of the better fights of the year. Shogun got robbed of a huge victory. It goes to show you what forward momentum can do when it comes to UFC. If you watch the striking replays of the fight, I think every hit was made by Shogun with the exception of maybe 1 or 2. I was VERY disappointed in the judging.

 

[JoeMama]

Lyoto Machida vs. Mauricio Rua - Wow this was unbelievable. I don't know what fight the judges were looking at. Machida won maybe 1 round..Even if you give him 2...And I really mean give him 2 rounds..Shogun is clearly the winner. I thought scoring is based on Striking, Grappling, Aggression and Octagon control. Shogun clearly won all of these categories. Machidas legs were beat up. He wasn't aggressive at all. He was tired. Shogun's kicks I thought were what would have won the fight.

I agree on all points but consider this - In order to be the champ you have to BEAT the champ. Plain and simple. Shogun while putting on an impressive performance, did 'just enough' to win the fight. Unfortunately, that doesnt always cut it. Big Timmah was ousted from the UFC for having that same fight style when he held the title.
IMO Rua won the fight, but he definitely didnt win the title.
-Me

 

[MrInternet]

Lets start with Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida. Wow..Yoshida basically got KTFO. Johnson has some heavy hands and I have no clue how he is a welterweight (Although he didn''t make weight for the fight)

It's funny you mention that, he's definitely the "biggest" welterweight out there currently. I've heard he usually cuts 25, sometimes 30, to make welterweight. 25's doable when you're Ortiz' size, but man, cutting 200 to 170 is a freak show... he's vicious, if he can walk around a little lighter and make welterweight consistently, he's going to be knocking on GSP's door soon no doubt.

I agree on all points but consider this - In order to be the champ you have to BEAT the champ. Plain and simple. Shogun while putting on an impressive performance, did 'just enough' to win the fight. Unfortunately, that doesnt always cut it. Big Timmah was ousted from the UFC for having that same fight style when he held the title.
IMO Rua won the fight, but he definitely didnt win the title.
-Me

Agreed, and there is a case to be made that Machida's evasive, dodging style translates to "octagon control", i.e. he decides where the engagements happen. I think Hughes got a couple decisions that way in the past. I haven't seen the fight yet, but if it's anything like classic Machida, he ALWAYS dictates where the action happens, even at the expense of taking leg kick damage.

 

[cercueil]

I agree on all points but consider this - In order to be the champ you have to BEAT the champ. Plain and simple. Shogun while putting on an impressive performance, did 'just enough' to win the fight. Unfortunately, that doesnt always cut it. Big Timmah was ousted from the UFC for having that same fight style when he held the title.
IMO Rua won the fight, but he definitely didnt win the title.
-Me

I understand that he has to beat the champ but aren't the rules the same for a regular fight and a title fight? It seems like there are some hidden rules that apply here. It looks like you have to win decisively on a title fight but on a regular fight you can simply win by points (which we all agree that he should have won anyway). I heard they gave away tickets for this fight. The reason was that it was 2 relatively unknown Brazilians in the cage. Maybe this was marketing by Dana White to get more $$$ for the next time they fight.

 

[mmb]

Judges see the fights differently. Happens in boxing and happens in MMA all the time.

Neither fighter tried to win the rounds in the last minute of any round. You see it all the time. *shrug*

 

[Bru]

Ive been avoiding this thread untill I saw 104 which was yesterday - can anyone say they believe Mochida won ? Shogun was robbed by the judges. Just look at Mochidas face after the fight - he took a beating to his face, his legs got kicked to peices, Shogun was more aggressive. I don't understand what the judges were doing

 

[MeatyPortion]

Cecil Peoples shuld probably just go jump off a cliff at this point. His argument about how leg kicks don't finish fights was one of the most asinine things I've ever heard a person in the fight game say.


Oh, and, if Rampage ever quits ducking then Rashad is gonna whoop dat ass.

 

[Bru]

Did he really say that ? What a chop.
I remember a recent fight (UFC) where one fighter gave up because he couldn't walk let alone fight.
It should be mandatory for a judge or ref to have some training experience.
Various Brazilian Jiu Jitsu orgaisations (IBJJF etc) require refs to have at leat a purple belt - thats +-5 years training.
UFC should have something similar although most UFC judges look like they battle to walk.

 

[MeatyPortion]

Yeah, he had a whole article where he attempted to justify why he felt Shogun won the fight, and his arguments just made him look that much dumber. I'll see if I can find the article.

 

[Bru]

He clearly needs to be kicked in the legs a few times to help him understand.

 

[MeatyPortion]

Ah, here it is. After some really weak justification he then states that any fans who don't agree with him can "go to hell" in the second article. He's severly gotten to imo.

http://www.cagepotato.com/cecil-peoples-leg-kicks-certainly-dont-finish-fights

“Mauricio Rua was being aggressive but it wasn't effective aggressiveness which is what we as the judges look for when scoring a fight. The way I saw it, Lyoto was landing the more cleaner and damaging strikes throughout the fight - if you take a look at the judging criteria clean strikes are valued more-so than the quantity of strikes landed. Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyotos diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida. You have to keep in mind we always the favour the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don't do that."


http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ys-mmaweekcp102809&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

[Bru]

Strange then that Lyoto ended up with more damage - Ruas face didn't have a scratch on it.

 

[MeatyPortion]

Cecil Peopls: *presents idiotic argument"
Fans: That doesn't make any sense. *explains the Rua-Varlens factor*
Cecil Peoples: Go to hell.
Fans: Why does this man have a job?

 

[Bru]

Especially a well paid one with Ariani almost sitting on your lap

 

[MeatyPortion]

Wouldn't matter to him, he can't see her anyway.

 

[Bru]

He pretends not to. If you look carefully you will see him looking at her out the corner of his eye.

 

[JoeMama]

I guess I am one of the few that agree with the decision in the Machida fight. While I agree that Rua may have won the FIGHT, he didnt win the TITLE. I believe he beat Machida, but he in no way beat the champion.

Unfortunately, this same rationale and logic applies to the Vera/Couture fight this weekend. My jaw too hit the floor when they announced Randy as the winner, but at the same time, I can see how they might have judged it that way.
(Yes it still pisses me off)
-Me

 

[ElPresidente77]

I guess I am one of the few that agree with the decision in the Machida fight. While I agree that Rua may have won the FIGHT, he didnt win the TITLE. I believe he beat Machida, but he in no way beat the champion.

Unfortunately, this same rationale and logic applies to the Vera/Couture fight this weekend. My jaw too hit the floor when they announced Randy as the winner, but at the same time, I can see how they might have judged it that way.
(Yes it still pisses me off)
-Me

The idea that "you have to beat the champ to be the champ" is a little ridiculous. Machida has the belt. Rua fought a better fight, did more damage and overall won that fight. If the challenger beats the guy with the belt, he's the champ period. I don't care if its a close fight or if machida was never rocked. it doesn't have to be convincing you just have to win.

Let's say the steelers go to the superbowl again this year. Does the other team have to beat them by 10 to win? No. It only takes 1.


Agreed on the vera coture thing. clearly the judges on saturday decided control was worth more in a fight than damage.

 

[MeatyPortion]

I guess I am one of the few that agree with the decision in the Machida fight. While I agree that Rua may have won the FIGHT, he didnt win the TITLE. I believe he beat Machida, but he in no way beat the champion.

Unfortunately, this same rationale and logic applies to the Vera/Couture fight this weekend. My jaw too hit the floor when they announced Randy as the winner, but at the same time, I can see how they might have judged it that way.
(Yes it still pisses me off)
-Me

I'd agree with you if Machida had fought like a champ. That's right: I went there.

 

[JoeMama]

I'd agree with you if Machida had fought like a champ. That's right: I went there.

Touche!

And yet another point I agree on as well.
Im so glad Im not a judge...

Yes, Machida got lucky in that fight and Im sure he knows it. Id be willing to bet my next batch that he wont be so lucky with a performance like that again.
They were BOTH guilty of fighting not to lose and doing 'just enough'. Machida just happened to be the lucky one that day.

Which is what pisses me off to no end about the Vera/Couture fight. Vera fought to win, Randy didnt...
-Me

 

[cercueil]

When Randy got that nasty leg kick to the side of his body I thought the fight was going to be over. Vera has some unbelivable kicks. I like Couture but the only thing I saw him win was "octagon control" I guess. He did pin Vera up and did some dirty boxing but I thought Vera landed the more devastating blows..I mean to go down from that kick..Even Randy said it hurt bad. I think this was the case where he got the win because of a legacy thing and maybe not because of the fight..I'm wondering if they want Randy to face Machida? I guess he needs to win a few more to decide that. How about Hardy and Swick. I don't particularly like Hardy but he did have some nice elbows and fought a good fight. I just can't picture him being in the same league as GSP though. I like when Joe or Mike said something like "I would lose on purpose not to fight GSP"..I was thinking the same thing..lol.

 

[middleofnowhere]

Looks like Lesnar is out for a while, seems he is pretty sick.

 

[ElPresidente77]

They were BOTH guilty of fighting not to lose and doing 'just enough'. Machida just happened to be the lucky one that day.

This is the problem with Machida's style. If you come at him like so many people have done, you lose. If you stand back and try to counter him, you get a long drawn out fight.

Looks like Lesnar is out for a while, seems he is pretty sick.

mononucleosis.

 

[mmb]

mononucleosis.

With the size of that guy and the work needed to maintain that physique, he's going to be a totally different heavyweight, muscle wise, after fighting that sickness.

 

[MeatyPortion]

Touche!

And yet another point I agree on as well.
Im so glad Im not a judge...

Yes, Machida got lucky in that fight and Im sure he knows it. Id be willing to bet my next batch that he wont be so lucky with a performance like that again.
They were BOTH guilty of fighting not to lose and doing 'just enough'. Machida just happened to be the lucky one that day.

Which is what pisses me off to no end about the Vera/Couture fight. Vera fought to win, Randy didnt...
-Me

I watched the 105 replay last and didn't even bother to watch the Couture-Vera fight, and I am a huge Couture fan.

 

[Endovelico]

Havent replied to this thread in a while. Yeah i thought Machida lost and i'm a huge Machida fan (been a fan since the Soko fight), regarding 105 it didnt have any HUGE fights but there was some exciting fights. Was impressed with Matt Brown.

Cotto / Pac made up for it though.

 

[middleofnowhere]

mononucleosis.

Apparently it is mono along with something else making it a lot more serious.

 

[MeatyPortion]

Word on some websites is that Brock was doing roids and his body is taking longer to repair itself than normal because of that. There is, of course, no proof or serious consideration to this.

 

[Endovelico]

Some pointed to the swine flue aswell.

 

[MeatyPortion]

Whatever it is, Lesnar asked the UFC not to reveal it which just adds fuel to the fire of speculation.

 

[Bru]

I havn't watched 105 yet so Im outa here untill I see it. See ya.

 

[middleofnowhere]

http://tsn.ca/mma/story/?id=298687

Looks like a bacterial infection!

 

[cercueil]

Word on some websites is that Brock was doing roids and his body is taking longer to repair itself than normal because of that. There is, of course, no proof or serious consideration to this.

When I first heard he came over from WWE and then saw the size of the guy I thought he was definitely on roids. I'm not sure if he's been on them since he started the UFC but more than likely he's taken his share in his day. You have to think it would effect your cardio but most of the heavyweight fights dont make it out of the first round so I guess this isn't an issue?