Nice, man...
Anheuser Busch and their deceptive marketing
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Nice, man...
Nightshade
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Lager and refrigeration go hand in hand since a yeast strain was discovered that thrives in cold but there was no way to have cold temps except winter. So through research and engineering a product was created to fit a need.
Yeast management and storage are a huge concern especially when pitching gallons of yeast a day and in some cases per batch. Really that should be self explanatory.
Kegs were designed for longevity and simplicity of use as opposed to wooden barrel storage which imparts unwanted flavors and they breakdown over time.
Colored bottles, canning, mechanized production lines and the list goes on, all to make a better product in higher quantity with the highest deliverable consistency possible.
I hope I can go about this in a way in which others won't accuse me of being self-righteous.
Lagers were around before AHB and were initially fermented in caves or basement cellars where they could be kept at a consistently cool temperature for long periods of time during fermentation. I don't really see any leaps and bounds AHB had to make in order to figure out that a refrigerator could be a suitable replacement for a cave or cellar. I am also not sure that AHB was the first to do so.
I am legitimately interested in how AHB improved yeast management and storage. I wish you would explain that to me or point me towards a resource that can explain what processes they invented and contributed to the world of beer brewing.
I don't see canning (which I don't think AHB started) or mechanized production lines as being at all necessary to brewing excellent craft beer.
Brown bottles are good. But, I can't find anything that says AHB came up with the idea.
Nightshade
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Nightshade
Well-Known Member
Where did I say AB specifically? It was the big breweries of the time that began the wide useage of these things and made them the de facto standards we use today and take for granted.
Many of these things were before our time and some evolved and continue to evolve even now.
Don't worry this isn't an argument, at least I don't think it is.
Ostomo517
Well-Known Member
It is in my town!
I must be missing something.
Refrigeration was invented for other uses by other people. It was later utilized for beer.
Also, did S. Liebmann's Sons Brewing Company become BMC or what?
Haha I didn't think so, but I think I may have given the wrong impression
.
There is meat behind our suspicion there, sport, y don't u not attack us without doing proper research urself. Now this was a 30 yrs ago, but who's to say it has completely changed?....I'd be willing to believe there's still some crazy stuff in there. Maybe, maybe not
"Miller Lite at one point contained several ingredients not normally found in beer, including manufactured chemical additives. The Center for Science in the Public Interest reported in 1982 that Miller Lite contained propylene glycol, alginate (a seaweed extract), water, barley malt, corn syrup, chemically-modified hop extracts, yeast, amyloglucosidase, carbon dioxide, papain enzyme, liquid sugar, potassium metabisulfite, and Emka malt (a food coloring). "
bobbrewedit
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Don't quote me, but per an uncle of mine that worked at a glass plant, brown bottles are simply cheaper to make than green or clear ones...I would guess the concept of saving money while protecting your product was an easy sell.
Nightshade
Well-Known Member
The company was BMC for its time essentially
http://www.beerhistory.com/library/holdings/hofmann-rheingold.shtml
moffatt163
Member
I don't disagree with you, my response was to the previous poster's claim that they aren't in it to profit or expand and that they sell their beer at a loss which is completely untrue.
urbanmyth
Well-Known Member
The only thing that really bothers me from that list is the propylene gylcol. The rest are common brewing clarifyers, ingredients, enzymes and colorants.
CityOChampBrew
Well-Known Member
I can't believe that this thread is still so active.. Is the fight still the same??
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
BTW. My issues with InBev has much much more to do with their ability to buy legislative and set the price of goods than their "marketing" Same as a company like Walmart or McDonalds, they have the ability to set and undercut a market. To demand things be done a certain way becuase it's what they need to make the same tasting food everywhere.
Personally if you're me, buy local, brew local.
Personally if you're me, buy local, brew local.
Believe it. If it is so old for you, move on... and let others who feel passionately about this subject have their say.
Look I was unable to read all 12 pages of this heated thread. But let me interject some things . I'm from a shell of a town that one was called city of the kings of beer. St. Louis, MO . Now the are many many hb that have gone micro in that area .I feel due to the dark side aka inbev taking over.
I was home on leave last week.
I saw the sales man who my dad has know for years. ( of which that guy stayed after the buyout to get retirement so can blame him) rolling out the new black crown for a taste ing thing a the local store. In his words to me as a friend "beer for a black crown for the dark knight. " he also said that in the Stl market they were loosening big time to local beers like o'fallon brewing , and kraftig which oddly enough was started by some of the a/b family that in my guess were not happy not to have a brewery in the family anymore.
So long story short no bastard in bev . Just because u throw peanuts at beers like red hook doesn't give u a partnership.
If u really want to parter with craft brewing throw all you dum focus groups to the curb. Have a brew off winner take all and allow anyone to try. And brew and bottle it the real winners brew for a year.
I was home on leave last week.
I saw the sales man who my dad has know for years. ( of which that guy stayed after the buyout to get retirement so can blame him) rolling out the new black crown for a taste ing thing a the local store. In his words to me as a friend "beer for a black crown for the dark knight. " he also said that in the Stl market they were loosening big time to local beers like o'fallon brewing , and kraftig which oddly enough was started by some of the a/b family that in my guess were not happy not to have a brewery in the family anymore.
So long story short no bastard in bev . Just because u throw peanuts at beers like red hook doesn't give u a partnership.
If u really want to parter with craft brewing throw all you dum focus groups to the curb. Have a brew off winner take all and allow anyone to try. And brew and bottle it the real winners brew for a year.
I think the OPs assertion that AB/InBev: "they're trying to kill craft brews"
Has become the topic of discussion rather then what I consider to be a very valid, salient and pretty much well accepted concept in the industry that they are predatory in nature with their marketing/merchandising and legal practices.
I don't like that style of beer at all, but even if I did, I'd drink Yuengling...not Budweiser.
They (AB/InBev) are basically the Microsoft of the industry IMHO, they buy out their competitors if they can and reformulate their product for mass production or if they can't do that they try to sue them at every opportunity. Sorry..I recognize these are typical big business practices..but that doesn't mean they're not *****ebagerous.
Has become the topic of discussion rather then what I consider to be a very valid, salient and pretty much well accepted concept in the industry that they are predatory in nature with their marketing/merchandising and legal practices.
I don't like that style of beer at all, but even if I did, I'd drink Yuengling...not Budweiser.
They (AB/InBev) are basically the Microsoft of the industry IMHO, they buy out their competitors if they can and reformulate their product for mass production or if they can't do that they try to sue them at every opportunity. Sorry..I recognize these are typical big business practices..but that doesn't mean they're not *****ebagerous.
Brewskii
Well-Known Member
What has BMC ever done for us?
Ever use Simcoe?
Any Cal Davis grads involved in craft brewing?
Ever buy rice grown in the US?
You use tri-clover fittings before?
Have you ever drank beer from a glass bottle, aluminum can or stainless steel keg?
What malting variety of barley is used for extract/specialty/all-grain brew your using?
Anybody enjoy not paying rediculous tax's and other legislation that would otherwise kill the beer industry in the US?
Ever use Simcoe?
Any Cal Davis grads involved in craft brewing?
Ever buy rice grown in the US?
You use tri-clover fittings before?
Have you ever drank beer from a glass bottle, aluminum can or stainless steel keg?
What malting variety of barley is used for extract/specialty/all-grain brew your using?
Anybody enjoy not paying rediculous tax's and other legislation that would otherwise kill the beer industry in the US?
Last edited by a moderator:
kombat
Well-Known Member
I still don't understand the argument here. It doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny.
First off, if a small craft brewery is profitable, then why would AB-Inbev buy it just to shut it down? Why wouldn't they buy it and then ... leave it alone? If it's generating money, why would they intentionally shutter it immediately after spending millions buying it? Why would a company so bent on profit and market domination shut down a profitable subsidiary? Just to be mean? Seriously? Come on.
Secondly, why would they "reformulate" the craft brewery's product, if it didn't increase profits? And if they're making the product worse, then shouldn't that decrease profits? If they change something, and more people buy it as a result, then by definition, they've made it better, at least in pure economic terms. In which case, isn't your beef is with the unsophisticated palates of the unwashed masses? How can you blame a company for making its product appeal to the most possible consumers? Why shouldn't they do that, if their goal is to increase profits?
Thirdly, who is AB-Inbev "suing at every opportunity?" Can you give me any examples of utterly baseless, frivilous lawsuits brought by AB-Inbev that are clearly meritless and intended solely to financially exhaust a small brewery through expensive litigation? And today, right now, there are thousands of small breweries thorughout the US that are not currently the target of an AB-Inbev lawsuit, and today's not a weekend or a holiday, so all the lawyers should be in their offices - today's a great "opportunity" for AB-Inbev to sue a bunch more. So are they doing it? Can we expect them to seize the "opportunity" today to sue a bunch more craft breweries? After all, aren't they suing them "at every opportunity?"
This is all so frustrating to read. So much rhetoric and hyperbole that doesn't even stand up to even the most trivial examination.
AB-Inbev is a business. Their job is to maximize profit for their shareholders and keep their employees employed. You cannot blame them for responding to normal market forces. It's simple economics. Unless they're breaking the law, then they're no different than any other major corporation, except perhaps that they're remarkably successful at what they do.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
I can't vouch for every AB product. It seems like Goose Island is business as usually but AB pumped it into their distributor pipeline. But conversely, Rolling Rock was bought out and their brewery was closed down. Can't say if the recipe was tweaked or not but it was rolled into budweiser's plant in Newark, NJ instead of being brewed in Latrobe, PA. So all the crap on the back of the bottle, is a lie if they haven't changed it by now.
And my guess the best example of AB using ligiation to try to inhibit a craft brewery was them sing Dogfish over the trademarking (I think they dtrademarked, maybe it was just use) Punkin Ale and Chicory Stout. Dogfish won because it was a baseless argument, but they still had to pay the cost of going to battle with AB.
And my guess the best example of AB using ligiation to try to inhibit a craft brewery was them sing Dogfish over the trademarking (I think they dtrademarked, maybe it was just use) Punkin Ale and Chicory Stout. Dogfish won because it was a baseless argument, but they still had to pay the cost of going to battle with AB.
Big Beer buys craft beer companies so they don't have to mess with producing the craft beer on the equipment that they need to make their regular line-up on. They also understand that craft beer drinkers would never believe that they could make a craft beer themselves, so they NEED to buy a craft beer company in order for it to be saleable. (You yourself said you don't support AB.)
I agree with you that I don't support them either, but mostly because I am not all that fond of their beer. Most of it is too light and tasteless. Sometimes that what I want so I will rarely buy a Strohs, or Mich Original Lager, or one of the retro style beers that has kind of made a comeback.
There are plenty of craft beers available in my area. I mean, LOTS. I don't have to do anything special to not support BMC besides just ordering what I want.
But come on, admit it, it's slightly *****ey to not even taste a sample of their latest offering just because you don't support them. In fact, it may have been a better tact to taste a taste and then go on a rant about how bad the beer sucks. Or, were you afraid you might actually have liked it??
I agree with you that I don't support them either, but mostly because I am not all that fond of their beer. Most of it is too light and tasteless. Sometimes that what I want so I will rarely buy a Strohs, or Mich Original Lager, or one of the retro style beers that has kind of made a comeback.
There are plenty of craft beers available in my area. I mean, LOTS. I don't have to do anything special to not support BMC besides just ordering what I want.
But come on, admit it, it's slightly *****ey to not even taste a sample of their latest offering just because you don't support them. In fact, it may have been a better tact to taste a taste and then go on a rant about how bad the beer sucks. Or, were you afraid you might actually have liked it??
this is a very long thread so i'll just let u know that i already addressed this in previous posts. it's kinda unfair to read the first post and respond solely to that post instead of reading how the conversation evolves, no matter. The reason I didn't want to sample it is b/c i don't support AB and I could see from his persistence that sampling the beer would have just ended up in a pointless disagreement/argument and make an unnecessary spectacle which i wasn't interesting in doing, i just wanted to buy my beer and go home. So no, it wasn't "*****ey", it was tactful
AB employs 15,000 people in the US. I wonder if they are all evil?
I had a bud light yesterday. Went for a bike ride along the beach and stopped at an outdoor burger/beer place. When they are cold, they go fine with a burger. But once they start to warm up (and you can taste them) they are undrinkable. Blech.
I had a bud light yesterday. Went for a bike ride along the beach and stopped at an outdoor burger/beer place. When they are cold, they go fine with a burger. But once they start to warm up (and you can taste them) they are undrinkable. Blech.
You could have just said "no thanks" to the sales person if you wanted to avoid a political discussion. Sounds like you provoked it in the first place.
I.e., if I go to a bar and a woman asks me to dance, I could respond with "no thanks" or "No, you're kinda ugly". Which one is the tactful response there?
Varmintman
Well-Known Member
Funny thing about that. I agree Bud Light has to be drunk at the almost freezing point or it is kind of nasty at least in my book. My home brews though are a better a little bit warmer though. I have one room that during the winter stays right at 40 degrees and I cellar my beer in there. When ever I forget to fill the fridge I just grab one out of there and it is much better tasting :rockin:
This drugstore has 2 events a month. 2nd Friday is usually a wine event, the last Friday is a beer event. They bring reps in, have tastings and usually discounts on that brewery's beer for that night. The December one was Bell's and they featured some of those new hard to find releases. The one last friday turned out to be cancelled and was from Brewery Vivant in Grand Rapids.
There's at least 12 stores I know of in the Metro Detroit area that have regular events, be it monthly, or quarterly or yearly. You can pretty much attend something in our area every week if you look around enough.
This one does a weekly tasting of something, be it beer, wine, cheese, cigars or liquor. They had a stout and cigar event in December where they put up a heated tent in their parking lot, but i had to work on a sermon that day, so I missed it.
I'm not going to waste my time if you think everything I've said is baseless. I'm guessing you know it's not baseless or you wouldn't have bothered to respond to it. What's in it for you what I think of AB/InBev? Why would it be SO frustrating?
That's a pretty silly argument.
By that logic, the Empire was not evil because individual Storm Troopers were decent people. And they were the biggest employer in the galaxy!
Well yea OK.
I'll restate that: if they operate legally, and employ 15000 people, that would be a good thing. That's 15000 families that are paying their mortgage and keeping their kids fed. It seems that large public companies are always maligned by some group.
You could say that AB isn't friendly to craft beer companies, but it seems to me that in the presence of this "evil empire", craft beer is stronger than it has ever been, and in fact is flourishing almost unabated.
Sure. There's a general perception that you don't get to the top without stepping on a lot of people along the way. The American people have been getting the shakedown during this recession, with many large companies cutting benefits, cutting pay, reducing hours and bankrupting pension funds not because they have to, but because it increases profitability. I don't find it unusual that people are more leery of big companies now, because, frankly, they should be.
I haven't researched AB's business practices because I'm not real interested in them. But if they operate anything like the way most insurance companies, brokers, bankers, or large retailers work... there's probably a good chance that everything is not above board ethically.
Brewskii
Well-Known Member
I love AB In-Bev!!!
$60/share to $90 and rising in less than 12 mo's!!!
$60/share to $90 and rising in less than 12 mo's!!!
GrogNerd
mean old man
work at the brewery? or Busch Gardens?
Granted if one of the jobs is yours you'll have a different take on it, but 15k doesn't even come close to making this list:
http://nyjobsource.com/largestemployers.html
http://nyjobsource.com/largestemployers.html
Because of this thread I went out and bought the budweiser brewmaster series. The supermarket had them in the craft brew section.
I bought it anyway. And I enjoyed the one I've had thus far.
The thought of admonishing the manager for putting it in the craft section never even crossed my mind.
And that's how simple it is.
I bought it anyway. And I enjoyed the one I've had thus far.
The thought of admonishing the manager for putting it in the craft section never even crossed my mind.
And that's how simple it is.
g-love
Well-Known Member
Funny, I'm going to do the same thing. Now, I'm curious.
And, my .02.... I'll buy beer or any other product I like, regardless of who makes it. The only exception for me is that I really try not to buy from companies who blatantly disregard their effects on the environment or take advantage of the people they employ. Of course, how you gauge that is a completely different discussion.
Brewskii
Well-Known Member
GrogNerd said:
Neither, but they are a stones throw from where I live. It's hard not to know about them when they are this big of an influence to the local economy.
GrogNerd
mean old man
saw you were in Williamsburg
Wow, you really showed us... Good luck with all that.
I don't have anything against BMC marketing or business principals, I simply dont drink them because to me, they taste like ass.
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