All Grain Issues - Crowd Source Triage

[NWAleDad]

Hello HBT!

First, let me add the standard I love this site comment. If it was not for all of the great information here I would of never been as successful at HomeBrew as I em today.

I moved to AG full-boil brewing in December after 10 months of extract brewing. Each batch is some of the best beer I have ever made. At first my eff. was low (51%) as I figured out what I needed to do with my particular equipment and over the past few months my efficiency has improved to an average of 60%. I have yet to hit my exact predicated numbers and consistently fall ~8 points below predicted OG. I want to continue to improve as a brewer and the next milestone i would like to achieve is hitting my numbers consistently.

My ask to all of you is this. What can i do to improve my current setup to ensure that i'm hitting my numbers?

Should i add more grain to compensate for something in my equipment set up?
do i need to change my process?
Do i need to by a new piece of equipment?

My Equipment:
I use a converted cooler as a MLT this is a coleman 9 gallon cooler that i converted using a ball valve and metal braid for the strainer.

I use a 7.5gal Aluminum turkey fryer i purchased after thanks giving last year for dirt cheap. (not my ideal boil kettle but i will upgrade in time)

My general Brew Process:
I usually mash for 60min and the temp depends on the brew, but i have no issue getting to and maintaining my target temp. the MLT works like a charm. I pull the wort off and batch sparge with 168 water. Once the first runnings are done i add the sparge water, mix, give it 10min. and run the wort off. I take the wort pour it into my boil kettle and continue with the normal brew process. Boil, Hops, finnings, chill, transfer, aerate, pitch, bottle, and enjoy.

Grain:
I get my grain crushed at my LHBS as i do not have a mill (yet).

Any suggestions on how to improve and ensure i hit my numbers is appreciated!

 

[Nateo]

Maybe your crush isn't great? A thinner mash will increase efficiency too. Something closer to 3qt/lb would be fine.

It generally takes me a few batches to dial in my exact issues when I get new equipment. Are you measuring pre-boil gravity and volume? You can do some quick calculations during brew day to make sure you're on target, or you can adjust your boil time on the fly.

But if your efficiency is consistent, I wouldn't worry too much, and just use a bit more grain. I don't think high efficiency is inherently desirable, but consistent brewhouse performance makes brew day less hectic.

 

[ChillWill]

Maybe your crush isn't great? A thinner mash will increase efficiency too. Something closer to 3qt/lb would be fine.

+1, I used to mash too thick and was struggling to get 65%, now I've thinned it out and got better mash temp control it's nearer 80%

 

[Gduck]

I agree with the others, it sounds likely the crush is the issue. The dangers of a LHBS crush, you don't have control over it. If you can get them to run the grains through it twice, this should help your effeciency some until a time when you can invest in your own mill.

 

[NWAleDad]

Thanks Guys! I have a good rapport with my LHBS staff, i will ask them to run it twice next time.

I will trying increasing the water to grain ratio on my next brew day. I measure volumes and I'm usually spot on.

My pre-boil gravity reading do show the trend of missing my numbers. When i'm below my expected pre boil gravity, is this a situation where i would boil longer?

 

[Stauffbier]

I pull the wort off and batch sparge with 168 water.

Ideally you want the temp of the grainbed to be 168F when you sparge. By infusing 168F water you are likely not achieving that. You might want to increase the temp of your sparge water to around 180F-190F (depending on grainbill size and grainbed temp after your first runoff).. When I did this my efficiency went way up! Aside from that I agree with the above posts....

 

[NWAleDad]

Ideally you want the temp of the grainbed to be 168F when you sparge. By infusing 168F water you are likely not achieving that. You might want to increase the temp of your sparge water to around 180F-190F (depending on grainbill size and grainbed temp after your first runoff).. When I did this my efficiency went way up! Aside from that I agree with the above posts....

Good to know, I will use the temp of the grain to determine by sparge water temp

 

[Nateo]

I'll sometimes sparge with 150* water if I'm getting impatient for it to heat up. In my experience I don't think it makes a noticeable difference. YMMV and so on.

Re: missing your gravity pre-boil, you can either a) add DME or b) boil longer and accept slightly lower volume. This will slightly alter your IBU calculations, but not enough to worry about, IMO. As long as you can keep your hop additions -60min or whatever from the end of the boil, you should be fine.

 

[tnsen]

OK....this newbie has to chime in....I have learned a lot from this site...question...in my previous batches.. extract kits (bb kits only) ..it always says not to exceed 170 degrees, when I steep my grains ...as this will leach tannins from the grain..would this not apply to allgrain? please expand my "tannin horizons " as I " thirst for knowledge"...ummm yup that was a pun.....Tom

 

[ChillWill]

OK....this newbie has to chime in....I have learned a lot from this site...question...in my previous batches.. extract kits (bb kits only) ..it always says not to exceed 170 degrees, when I steep my grains ...as this will leach tannins from the grain..would this not apply to allgrain? please expand my "tannin horizons " as I " thirst for knowledge"...ummm yup that was a pun.....Tom

By adding 190f water to 150f ish grain, you probably won't go past 170f

 

[RM-MN]

It takes two conditions occuring simultaneously to extract tannins. You have to have water over 170 and the pH of the grainbed must be over 6. Since most of the time your grainbed will be more acidic than that the temperature of the water wouldn't matter. As you sparge, the pH would begin to rise and if you sparge a second or maybe a third time your pH would get high enough to extract tannins, but only if you use very hot water.

 

[ChillWill]

I think generally if you have less than 2% sugar, that's round the point where the pH goes too high and extraction of bad stuff happens.

Shouldn't be a problem for batch spargers, just over fly sparging.

 

[Nateo]

Any time you have husk material in contact with hot liquid, you're extracting tannins. In low amounts these are nice, in large amounts they're astringent. Pedantic, I know, but some people have an irrational of hatred of tannins, when they can actually be quite nice.

 

[ISLAGI]

In addition to getting a better crush - maybe ask the LHBS to run it through the mill a second time - one thing I haven't seen mentioned is to stir every 15 minutes or so during the mash. This should help all of the grain have a constant temp throughout the mash.

Also, have you checked your thermometer with boiling and iced distilled water?

Enjoy!

 

[Stauffbier]

I'll sometimes sparge with 150* water if I'm getting impatient for it to heat up. In my experience I don't think it makes a noticeable difference. YMMV and so on.
.

I knew someone would say this, and it's absolutely true. I do think it would be worth trying a higher sparge temp in the OP's case just so he can see what sort of result he gets since all set-ups are different. I've even heard of people using room temp water to sparge before. The most important thing obviously is getting proper conversion during the mash.

 

[Nateo]

I knew someone would say this, and it's absolutely true. I do think it would be worth trying a higher sparge temp in the OP's case just so he can see what sort of result he gets since all set-ups are different. I've even heard of people using room temp water to sparge before. The most important thing obviously is getting proper conversion during the mash.

Now that you mention it, I did use room-temp water for a portion of my sparge water on my last brew (missed my gravity/volume, had an "oh ****" moment, and used room temp water.) I still hit my numbers at the end of the day.

 

[SouthBay]

one thing I haven't seen mentioned is to stir every 15 minutes or so during the mash. This should help all of the grain have a constant temp throughout the mash.

Also, have you checked your thermometer with boiling and iced distilled water?

Enjoy!

+1

Stirring in particular helped my efficiency jump up quite a bit. I notice a point in efficiency for every time I stir. More than every 15 minutes, though, temps start to fall off. once every 15 minutes seems to be optimal.

 

[NWAleDad]

+1

Stirring in particular helped my efficiency jump up quite a bit. I notice a point in efficiency for every time I stir. More than every 15 minutes, though, temps start to fall off. once every 15 minutes seems to be optimal.

Have not thought about that, i will add this to the list to try next time. Lots a great suggestions, thanks everyone!

 

[NWAleDad]

wanted to post an update and thank you to this thread. I mashed with a 2:1 ratio and stirred every 15 minutes and hit 71.9% eff! thanks for all the help guys! I actually overshot my OG by a few points.

 

[NWAleDad]

Okay few more issues in this latest batch. I over shot my OG by 3 points. and i took a reading after 10 days in primary and the reading is 1.004. The Estimated was 1.011. This has been consistant across all of my batches. what cause my brew to ferment out to almost 0 each time?

 

[Gartywood]

I think part of your efficiency problem might be kettle size. I collect about 7 to 7.5 gallons batch sparing to Boil down to 5.5. I routinely get 75-80% efficiency using a 5 gallon water cooler mash tun with bazooka screen and mashes at thin as 1.25 qt per pound to fit up to 13 lbs of grain. I don't even let it sit for 10 minutes after adding sparge water, just a little stir and vorlauf.

 

[Stauffbier]

Okay few more issues in this latest batch. I over shot my OG by 3 points. and i took a reading after 10 days in primary and the reading is 1.004. The Estimated was 1.011. This has been consistant across all of my batches. what cause my brew to ferment out to almost 0 each time?

You can try mashing at a higher temp and add a touch more crystal malt or dextrin malt...

 

[NWAleDad]

I think part of your efficiency problem might be kettle size. I collect about 7 to 7.5 gallons batch sparing to Boil down to 5.5. I routinely get 75-80% efficiency using a 5 gallon water cooler mash tun with bazooka screen and mashes at thin as 1.25 qt per pound to fit up to 13 lbs of grain. I don't even let it sit for 10 minutes after adding sparge water, just a little stir and vorlauf.

at this point my eff is fine. i'm just curious why each batch ferments further than expected. Thanks for the suggestion i do have a 10gal boil kettle.

 

[NWAleDad]

You can try mashing at a higher temp and add a touch more crystal malt or dextrin malt...

is the idea here that i will get less fermentable sugars out of the mash?

 

[Stauffbier]

is the idea here that i will get less fermentable sugars out of the mash?

Yup!

 

[ram434]

is the idea here that i will get less fermentable sugars out of the mash?

Yes. My first all grain batch was a Wit, and I missed my target temp by a lot and just rolled with it. Ended up making a super dry Wit. A bit off style, but it was a good drinker.

 

[NWAleDad]

okay i usually try to mash at 152, i think i need to check my thermometer. thanks everyone!