All Grain Isn't Working Out

[eric19312]

Not sure why so many people think you need to dive right into water chemistry. I would say that your symptoms - low attenuation and off flavors - are more indicative of a problem with yeast health, fermentation process and perhaps sanitation. I am not saying you should never learn about water chemistry but that's not your #1 priority. Probably not even top 5 at the moment.

Start with good healthy yeast. Use liquid if you can. Use a starter. Good sanitation and temperature control which you already have. Some patience. Read some literature and keep educating yourself.

+1

Here is a thread with the two leading homebrewtalk water science contributors commenting on the impact of water chemistry on attenuation. One says sure it does, a little. The other says nope.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=493150

I suspect temperature control issues compounded by changing seasons. You didn't have these issues with extract brewing but have with all grain. US-05 is a great yeast that responds really well to active temperature control. I like it pitched at about 70, held at 68 for first week of fermentation and raised 1 degree per day to about 71 as krausen starts to drop.

 

[Floydmeister]

I brought a sample of the beer to my local club meeting the other day. Pretty much everyone that tried it said it was Phenol. Nobody really seemed to have a reason for why it happens though. The general response was that something during fermentation caused the problem. Most didn't think that 1.013 was a very good enough attenuation for US-05 with this recipe. One guy told me to pitch two packs of US-05.

I gave Bru'n Water a shot and decided to brew a saison yesterday on a whim. I used all 100% RO water and added 1 tsp Gypsum, 1/2 tsp Calcium Chloride, and 1/2 tsp Espom Salt. With about 10mL of phosphoric acid hit my intended pH. I'll probably keep this up for the next few beers to eliminate any possibility of water being an issue. I pitched 3 re-hydrated dry packs of danstar belle saison based on brewersfriend calculator for a 1.075 OG wort. I aerated by first straining into my bottling bucket and then letting the wort fall out of the spigot and splash around in the fermentation bucket. It's taking off like a rocket. The blowoff hose is shooting out bubbles like its a machine gun.

I am going to try an ~1.050 ESB this wekeend with Wyeast 1968. I got a starter 2L starter going on Monday (no stir plate yet, just shaking) and put it in the fridge this morning. I plan to decant it off and feed the yeast another 2L of wort. I should have hopefully ruled out unhealthy yeast by pitching at least what the calculators say.

 

[TheHopfather]

Just read through all of these, you mentioned you use tap water, do you treat it for chlorine? Seems like chlorophenol might be your issue to me, its the only thing that really stands out in your process.

 

[Floydmeister]

Just read through all of these, you mentioned you use tap water, do you treat it for chlorine? Seems like chlorophenol might be your issue to me, its the only thing that really stands out in your process.

That's something I've been really wondering about too. It's summer now and they really up the chlorine levels because it gets hot and the bacteria thrive in the heat. I now have a charcoal filter and used it on a slow flow rate for my dunkelweizen and used all RO for the saison. Both are still fermenting so I'll have to report back but the taste sample in my dunkelweizen is so far promising.

 

[Floydmeister]

UPDATE:

Just an update. I switched to RO water and started using PET carboys. All of my beers so far with RO & PET carboys have turned out great and there is no more phenol off flavor.

However... Some of my beers in my HDPE buckets have developed phenols. In fact, I had a quad :'( develop this flavor after 2 weeks in the bottle. I didn't detect it at bottling. This leads me to believe that there is some kind of infection; maybe brettanomyces? I went ahead and got a new syphon and bottling bucket since I did not detect any problem until after bottling. Hopefully things clear up but from now on I'm going to start turning my buckets into grain storage containers and stick to PET carboys as they're A LOT easier to clean and sanitize.

 

[kh54s10]

UPDATE:

I'm going to start turning my buckets into grain storage containers and stick to PET carboys as they're A LOT easier to clean and sanitize.

At last... Someone who agrees with me that PET fermenters are easier to clean than even buckets. I rinse them out, soak with Oxyclean, drain and rinse, add a washcloth and a little water, swirl and rinse well. Except for filling with water and Oxyclean the rest takes at most 10 minutes.

Reaching to the bottom of a bucket and wiping all surfaces is more of a pain to me...

 

[Floydmeister]

At last... Someone who agrees with me that PET fermenters are easier to clean than even buckets. I rinse them out, soak with Oxyclean, drain and rinse, add a washcloth and a little water, swirl and rinse well. Except for filling with water and Oxyclean the rest takes at most 10 minutes.

Reaching to the bottom of a bucket and wiping all surfaces is more of a pain to me...

And when it comes time to sanitize for brew day just put a little bit in there and shake it around occasionally so it covers everything.

 

[kh54s10]

And when it comes time to sanitize for brew day just put a little bit in there and shake it around occasionally so it covers everything.

Try that with wet hands and a glass carboy.... Do you need a ride to the ER???

 

[djlang]

I agree with 55x11 - first do the basics right (or rather perfectly) then get into chemistry.