All Grain...I'm Afraid..

[william_shakes_beer]

Add city and state to your profile, perhaps someone will offer to come by and hold your hand for your first session. I know I would. Or, look up a local home brew club.

 

[thekraken]

I was in your position a few months ago. I'm borrowing a family members extract equipment while they can't use it for a year, I decided why not go all the way and do all grain? So I put together a cooler MLT, went to my HBS and bought some grain and got funny looks, went home and semi-successfully brewed 5 gallons all grain for my first ever batch. I say semi-successfully because I missed my gravity be 0.02, but I have learned from the experience (plus I did get drinkable beer from it). I have since brewed a kit from NB and hit all my gravities and volumes exactly! I say just jump in and do it, take notes, learn from your mistakes/experience, it's not hard.

Regarding MLT size, I went with this 15 gallon cooler design: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/60qt-ice-cube-mash-tun-build-cheap-simple-144475/index19.html
It was cheaper and larger than the popular 10 gallon water cooler options. Its ratio of height to base area is also much more optimal than most higher capacity MLT coolers I've seen, theoretically making it more versatile for smaller grain bills as well as larger grain bills.

Edit: Also, the beersmith software has been great http://beersmith.com/

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

A 5 gal cooler will be just fine. I can easily fit 10-12 lbs of grain, and up to 13 lbs if I need to, for my BIAB setup.
A bigger cooler might be handy if you want to brew bigger batches at some point (and less likely to splash hot liquid), but a 5 gal cooler will do the job just fine if you plan your batches out appropriately. Be careful with some of the all-grain kits, as they might have more grain than your cooler can handle if you go with a 5 gal cooler.

More important, I think, is getting a bigger kettle, unless you plan on topping off with water afterwards to make up your final volume going into the fermenter. It will be quite difficult if (and very messy) attempting to boil a 5 gal batch in a 6 gal kettle, considering for a 5 gal batch you need to start with >5 gal to boil. I'd highly recommend upgrading your kettle, and you will still find your 6 gal pot very useful for heating water. I picked up a 10.5 gal aluminum bayou classic pot, with a strainer bucket included, on Amazon pretty cheaply. There's a couple other brands in a similar price rangefinder you look around. Makes a much easier brew day and keeps boil-overs to a minimum.


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Yea I just top off with water. One item at a time Just bought a house, budget is still a bit tight.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

Add city and state to your profile, perhaps someone will offer to come by and hold your hand for your first session. I know I would. Or, look up a local home brew club.

You made me lose it at hold my hand haha.

 

[CrypticIntent]

I'd like to point out one minor thing. It was stated you aren't ready for all grain.
Dirty little secret, you will NEVER be ready for all grain until you just go and do it. Information and videos rock and are a great boon, gives plenty of ideas that keep you from having complete failure on your first go. However until you get to it, you won't be ready. In fact sometimes there is an over-saturation of knowledge that can come. AG brewing is not a big mystery to be solved, it is an adventure you seem to know enough knowledge to have fun with it and I can't wait to hear how good or bad brew day goes.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

MCHA - No worries, bud - you've got this. The kit will come with instructions that are easy and step-by-step; The website for the supplier of the kit might even have a selection of videos to check on, or you can search YouTube for a video demonstration of the same kit that you bought. Even if there's no video, just run down the instructions step-by-step a few times, line up all of your ingredients and equipment beforehand, and you will be just fine.

I'm not very experienced in brewing, but I do a lot of trying new things in cooking, charcuterie, barbecue and other culinary endeavours; one thing I've learned is that it's way too possible to over-think it before the fact, and make it way too complicated. I've also learned that a lot of times, asking the "experts" when you are starting out can be intimidating because they (inadvertantly) talk above your knowledge and experience level; this won't happen all the time, but there is a chance of it happening any time.

Have your ingredients and equipment ready, as per the kit. Follow the steps. Do it according to the directions the first time, taking no short-cuts and resisting the temptation to deviate from teh written instructions. You will learn fundamentals and WHY you are doing what you're doing. Once you've done it, and seen how easy it is, you can then start looking for ways to be more efficient, pick up any equipment that will make it easier next time etc. - but the first time, it's just a matter of familiarising yourself with the process and the equipment/ingredients. Your confidence will grow with your experience, and above all, you will be actually DOING it, instead of being in a constant, never-ending state of "getting ready to do it."

All will be cool, just do it.

Just two cents from a guy in Montana who brewed his first beer last week and learned more by actually doing it than by all the reading and discussion in the previous 7 months before he actually got off his ass and did it.

 

[j1n]

I watched a few more videos, both from John Palmer and BIAB vids. To me, the first video I posted..just talking purely on the process, made the most sense to me. I felt like it was very relatable, like I could easily set that system up in my kitchen with very little difficulty or intimidation. I think my issue with the BIAB is it looks like it could be a hot, heavy, sticky mess really quickly (not to mention the usage of the bag was very inconsistent among videos, I'm using a 6 gal kettle and I'm confident the bag would fit, maybe I'm not looking at the right vids). If you can believe it, I think I actually found the techniques for BIAB to be 'more' complicated.

I can't say I'm excited to spend more money on brewing at this point but I'd rather invest in good equipment that's going to last and is going to serve me well than get something that was built half assed and may fail on me. I'm also not much of a DIY kind of guy. I do have a learning disability that involves reading comprehension (hense why I learn best buy watching + listening and then doing) and I don't read those step by step DIY instructions very well. It creates a lot of room for me to fudge something up. I'll browse around the DIY sticky section and see if I find something that makes sense but worse case scenario, I drop $80 on something that's guaranteed to support the process correctly. Besides, I'm already saving money by purchasing AG ingredient kits.

Also, the AG ingredient kits from MWS's ARE pre crushed which is good for me. And my first AG batch will be a pumpkin ale. Nothing too fancy so it would give me some good practice for the next batch which is going to a mint chocolate stout I'm prepping for Xmas time.

If anyone else has any more suggestions or links to possibly more informative videos on BIAB, I'm def open to watching them. Maybe you'll change my mind!

I agree. When people say BIAB is the easiest way to get into AG then i see people with pulley systems to lift the bag out cause its heavy as F**K, that to me takes the simplicity completely out of it and not worth it.

 

[doug293cz]

I agree. When people say BIAB is the easiest way to get into AG then i see people with pulley systems to lift the bag out cause its heavy as F**K, that to me takes the simplicity completely out of it and not worth it.

A pulley is complicated, really? I just hang my pulley from a step ladder over the BK. Simple.

Neither a pulley, nor a mash tun (at least for batch sparging) is complicated. Designing & building a proper drain manifold (to avoid channeling) for fly sparging does add more complexity to a mash tun, but it's still not rocket science, and can be accomplished by anyone with minimal plumbing skills.

Brew on

 

[rockdemon]

I agree. When people say BIAB is the easiest way to get into AG then i see people with pulley systems to lift the bag out cause its heavy as F**K, that to me takes the simplicity completely out of it and not worth it.

Ive never done extractbrews, i started with biab right away, allthough i dont make big batches i really dont understand how the bag can be heavy as f**k? I only do big beers and have like 5 kg of malt in the bag. that plus the water makes it like 10 kg to pull and let it rinse. I hold the bad with one hand and squeeze it with the other, the only problem is that my kitchenfloor becomes a guey mess. Im thinking of creating something similar to what you have on your turkeyburners, so i can put the grainbag on it and let it rinse itself instead. But i wouldnt call "lifting the grainbag" a problem.

 

[Beer is good]

Hi buddy I just did my first AG batch last weekend - no big deal! You just soak your grains in hot water for an hour, then rinse them, and boil like usual.

 

[j1n]

A pulley is complicated, really? I just hang my pulley from a step ladder over the BK. Simple.

Neither a pulley, nor a mash tun (at least for batch sparging) is complicated. Designing & building a proper drain manifold (to avoid channeling) for fly sparging does add more complexity to a mash tun, but it's still not rocket science, and can be accomplished by anyone with minimal plumbing skills.

Brew on

I started brewing on AG and fly sparging so i know how easy it is. So instead of a MLT and HLT i need a pulley and a ladder. i thought the benefit of BIAB was using less equipment....

Ive never done extractbrews, i started with biab right away, allthough i dont make big batches i really dont understand how the bag can be heavy as f**k? I only do big beers and have like 5 kg of malt in the bag. that plus the water makes it like 10 kg to pull and let it rinse. I hold the bad with one hand and squeeze it with the other, the only problem is that my kitchenfloor becomes a guey mess. Im thinking of creating something similar to what you have on your turkeyburners, so i can put the grainbag on it and let it rinse itself instead. But i wouldnt call "lifting the grainbag" a problem.

I've never done extract either. I'm more comparing traditional AG with batch or fly sparging vs BIAB. Id much rather use MLT and HLT vs a bag with a pulley. Maybe its the 10 gallon folks that BIAB that use a pulley to lift the grains. I'm just saying BIAB doesn't seem that much easier vs regular AG and has its own challenges. Seems like anyone that wants to go AG, everyone is saying go BIAB.


I can see how my post makes it seem like im advocating extract brews. My point was to go all the way with AG brewing.

 

[Kee]

So after watching a few vids on BIAB, I think I'm going to wait till my AG kits from MWS comes in and read the directions. If it sounds like they're on the more traditional method (based on the first vid I watched) I probably (to make things easier and less translation/conversion of technique) just invest in a mash tun or I'll find a DYI way of making one.

Oh, and to the guy above who said "not to be harsh but you're correct you're not ready" you do realize that ALL you're doing is lighting a fire under my ass to prove that statement wrong..right?

I don't know about this specific recipe but the only all grain kit I ever ordered had no detailed instructions, just recommended mash time and temp, and boil additions and times.

 

[Malty_Dog]

A lot of good discussion here. To the OP - I recommend going with a partial mash the first time you try mashing. This is the thread that led me down the road to all grain. Mash in a pot, using a $3 paint strainer bag from Home Depot: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/

Add extract to make up for unmashed quantity of base malt. Generally 3 lbs DME = 5 lbs grain, and 3.3 lbs LME = 4.5 lbs grain.

Partial mash is like sticking your toe in the water before leaping in. Wait that didn't come out quite right...

 

[BrewinBromanite]

^^ Ageeed. Partial mash (PM) is a great way to get familiar with AG on a smaller scale. If your mash efficiency is low, you can easily add a little more extract. If your volume is a little off (ex: if boil off-rate was higher than expected), just top off with more water in the fermenter. I did only 2 PM batches side by side (same brew day) when I transitioned from extract w/ steeping grain to AG. The nice part was my 6 gal pot was fine, because I was topping off and not doing a full volume boil. They ended up being my best batches up till that time. I could've happily stayed at PM, but it was so easy to go another step to AG I made the final switch on my next batch (but also had to purchase a little more equipment, like a bigger kettle than my 6 gal pot). It really is a good way to get the mash process down and other variables, but with a little room for error to adjust for mistakes.

Also, I spent A LOT of time reading about PM and AG before I switched, and was pretty well prepared. But I quickly learned that questions came up that I didn't read about and that I would never have known to ask except for things coming up when you actually try it. You learn something new every batch. The good news is, if you end up having some unanticipated question, chances are others have experienced it and you can search this forum and find the answers!


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[johngaltsmotor]

Granted, AG takes more time than Extract, but I wouldn't say it's more complicated. Soaking grain is not rocket science. The temperature ranges you need to stay in are quite forgiving. And sparging (rinsing) the grain isn't difficult. And everything else is just like extract brewing. Can you make it technical? Yes. Does it HAVE to be technical? No.

If you keep reminding yourself that "this is cool!!" then you'd be surprised at how easy it is. Sure you'll make a mess the first time. That's about the worst that can happen. If your gravity ends up low, you can do the math to adjust it or just say "SO WHAT?" and ferment a session beer.

You're no more likely to make something lethal by brewing all grain than you are with extract so I ask you: what's the worst that can happen?
If you're enjoying the process then nothing else matters. In the end you'll have made beer from nothing but water and grain and hops and yeast, and to you it will taste like darn good beer because it's yours.

If you're concerned, just make sure the kids aren't around to tattle to SWMBO when you swear ;-)

Enjoy

 

[doug293cz]

I started brewing on AG and fly sparging so i know how easy it is. ... My point was to go all the way with AG brewing.

BIAB is all grain brewing. You can do AG with one, two, or three vessels. It's all a matter of personal preference, budget, available space, scrounging skills, and/or DIY skills.

I started brewing on AG and fly sparging so i know how easy it is. So instead of a MLT and HLT i need a pulley and a ladder. i thought the benefit of BIAB was using less equipment....

Pulley's are cheaper than MLT's, and many people already have ladders (or structures over their brew space to attach an eye bolt.) If you don't have a ladder or overhead structure, then yeah, it's extra equipment. Different people have different situations. For small enough batches you don't need a bag suspension method.

Seems like anyone that wants to go AG, everyone is saying go BIAB.

The point is, if you already have the equipment to do extract, the only thing additional needed for all grain is a suitable bag. If you want to add more equipment, have the budget, space, etc., just like to tinker, whatever, then there is nothing wrong with starting AG with three vessel.

Brew on

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

I'll watch a few more vids later on BIAB but so far it def makes more sense to me to follow the technique that made the most sense to me. Honestly, based on that first video I watched the hardest part looks to be constructing the mash tun. Unless of course that guy made the process look easy.

And yea, about the pulley system haha, the moment the word "pulley" was mentioned I immediately thought "now it just got more complicated haha". I actually don't have a ladder! But I do have extra pots for heating water and an extra hose for draining.


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_____________________________
I once dated a girl who told me I will not drink beer in front of our children. I dumped her the next day.

 

[Beernik]

The only recommend I have on building a MLT is to really think about what you want it to be because you are going to be using it for the next 5 years.

I was very excited building mine and tried to do it on a budget. Looking back on it, I didnt plan it out well. My manifold took me too long to put together every brew day. I didn't do a good job drilling, so I was always chasing down leaks and wrapping stuff in Teflon tape. My thermometer could have been in a better spot. I should have bought a better valve. I should have bought a better thermometer.

This time around I'm building my system slowly and trying to do it in a way that won't have me saying in two years, "I wish I hadn't done that."

 

[doug293cz]

The only recommend I have on building a MLT is to really think about what you want it to be because you are going to be using it for the next 5 years.

I was very excited building mine and tried to do it on a budget. Looking back on it, I didnt plan it out well. My manifold took me too long to put together every brew day. I didn't do a good job drilling, so I was always chasing down leaks and wrapping stuff in Teflon tape. My thermometer could have been in a better spot. I should have bought a better valve. I should have bought a better thermometer.

This time around I'm building my system slowly and trying to do it in a way that won't have me saying in two years, "I wish I hadn't done that."

[SNARK] Yeah, hanging a pulley is way more complicated than this! [/SNARK] Sorry, I couldn't resist

The advice on planning is spot on. Do it well or do it over.

Brew on

 

[TheHungryArchitect]

Hey there!

I breezed over most of the responses and you are in very good hands here!

I hit the ground running when I started brewing (on my 6th batch now) and I started with an AG 5gal mash-tun system that I built myself. Took a few trips to Home Depot to get the right stuff, but I figured it out. I also built a counter-flow wort-chiller that works like a charm!

My first brew was drinkable, nothing special, but since then I've hit the mark every time and I'm continuing to refine the process. Do your research and just go for it, you'll be great!

My advice: valves and filters are your friends! Good luck mate!

 

[j1n]

BIAB is all grain brewing. You can do AG with one, two, or three vessels. It's all a matter of personal preference, budget, available space, scrounging skills, and/or DIY skills.



Pulley's are cheaper than MLT's, and many people already have ladders (or structures over their brew space to attach an eye bolt.) If you don't have a ladder or overhead structure, then yeah, it's extra equipment. Different people have different situations. For small enough batches you don't need a bag suspension method.



The point is, if you already have the equipment to do extract, the only thing additional needed for all grain is a suitable bag. If you want to add more equipment, have the budget, space, etc., just like to tinker, whatever, then there is nothing wrong with starting AG with three vessel.

Brew on

Of course its all grain. you know what i meant.

i dont own a pulley or ladder and id bet most people dont own one.

The benefit i see is just that, less equipment. The process imo isnt any easier. it seems like it has its own challenges and i think biab is the best route not for ease but for cost.

 

[doug293cz]

If you decide you want to go the MLT route, you might consider the following as a way to get where you want to be without having to do it all at once.

1. Decide what size mash tun you need for the largest batch you think you might want to brew in the next few years (until you have enough money to buy replacement equipment.)
2. Pick out a cooler that will meet your needs, and make sure it has a bottom drain.
3. Get a bag that fits your new cooler.
4. Make beer by mashing in your cooler using the bag. You can try both full volume and batch sparging. You don't need to lift the bag until it is time to clean out the MLT.
5. Enjoy your home brewed beer while you pursue the next step.
6. Research and design your ultimate (until the next one) MLT + sparge system that will fit in the cooler you already bought.
7. If while doing the previous step you decide you like the system the way it is, then skip the next two steps.
8. Build your ultimate (until the next one) MLT + sparge system.
9. Brew beer using your new traditional mash tun.

Brew on

 

[te-wa]

go all grain.. i will nevah evah go back to extract. AG is so much more hands on.. like the model rockets kids used to build. you had to glue on the balsa fins, shape the nose cone, butt the holding pin on the fuselage, etc.. nowadays they come fully complete and you shoot it up. where's the fun in that?!

AG has many things i love about it, you'll also want to get a stir plate and flask to make yeast starters. i have a 10 gal igloo, false SS bottom, 15 gal SS boil pot, and i do fly sparging with a pasta colander and my vorlauf pitcher. a cooler with ice water and a re-circulation system of wort chilling is a must, as well as temp control w/ a freezer and temp controller combo. my next move is stepping up to a 12 gallon conical fermenter, to make recycling yeast easy, and do double batches. no respectable chef uses canned tomatoes, they will take the time to boil and peel the skins, remove the seeds and make sauce from scratch. it is arguably much better and only takes a short time to do it better. be that chef!

it takes about 5 hours from time i start to heat strike water to pitching yeast.

 

[Beernik]

[SNARK] Yeah, hanging a pulley is way more complicated than this! [/SNARK] Sorry, I couldn't resist

The advice on planning is spot on. Do it well or do it over.

Brew on

I don't have a pully. I have a basketball hoop. It's been in my driveway for at least 12 years. This is the first thing I've used it for.

My current build is a 3 vessel HERMS. BIAB is just a rest stop in the process of building it.

 

[doug293cz]

go all grain.. i will nevah evah go back to extract. AG is so much more hands on.. like the model rockets kids used to build. you had to glue on the balsa fins, shape the nose cone, butt the holding pin on the fuselage, etc.. nowadays they come fully complete and you shoot it up. where's the fun in that?!

AG has many things i love about it, you'll also want to get a stir plate and flask to make yeast starters. i have a 10 gal igloo, false SS bottom, 15 gal SS boil pot, and i do fly sparging with a pasta colander and my vorlauf pitcher. a cooler with ice water and a re-circulation system of wort chilling is a must, as well as temp control w/ a freezer and temp controller combo. my next move is stepping up to a 12 gallon conical fermenter, to make recycling yeast easy, and do double batches. no respectable chef uses canned tomatoes, they will take the time to boil and peel the skins, remove the seeds and make sauce from scratch. it is arguably much better and only takes a short time to do it better. be that chef!

it takes about 5 hours from time i start to heat strike water to pitching yeast.

Whoa dude(tte), if his SWMBO sees this she might shut the whole operation down. Got to ease into things gradually to avoid roadblocks being thrown up. Then again, maybe SWMBO likes good beer, and fully backs him. They are not a myth, they do exist.

Brew on

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

Whoa dude(tte), if his SWMBO sees this she might shut the whole operation down. Got to ease into things gradually to avoid roadblocks being thrown up. Then again, maybe SWMBO likes good beer, and fully backs him. They are not a myth, they do exist.

Brew on

SWMBO took a google search but I figured it out haha. She goes to tastings with me but she's more of a wine drinker. She doesn't care what I do so long as I stay within budget as we just bought a house. Money is tight but it's not ramen noodle every night tight either. I figured I'd make the switch because honestly, I'm not tired of being forced to drink PBR all week because I can't afford the premium stuff every day. I'm basically paying $20 for 50 some premium brews. Or $40 for a hundred.

Still looking at some DIY mash tun instructions. The issue I'm running into is I haven't found a list that has given SKU numbers. I want to be able to go in to Home Depot give the list to the guy lol and be like "here's the SKU numbers, don't come back empty handed, have fun". (I'm partially kidding)

SWMBO is spending 'our' money on paint (for which I'm of course being put to work with). I should be able to spend some of my money on equipment that will save 'us' money on brew.

When I make the switch to 10 gallon brews, it will be after I've hit 90% consistency with my beer. Also, I'll make the equipment investment in one shot. [BOLD]Speaking of equipment,[/BOLD] does any one know where to get that thermometer and probe like that guy in the video had? Could could be helpful too.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

Probably the best video I've seen on how do built it and this list (which isn't associated with the video) seems to match up well with the parts he's using. http://mainlinebrewers.com/projects/mlt/

 

[BrewinBromanite]

Looks like you are definitely leaning towards making your own MLT. That's awesome - you've found something that interests you and will be fun to make - then even more fun to use!!

I just want to chime in on the BIAB/pulley discussions. I do BIAB, and I don't use a pulley.

I made the switch from extract to Pm then to BIAB-AG, so I've got the old smaller 5-6 gal kettles I initially had, plus a couple newer 10.5 gal kettles with strainer buckets. On my first AG batch moving up from PM, I didn't take into account that 12 lbs of grain wouldn't fit well in the large colander to drain (hell, it was very tight with 7 lbs from my PM recipe), and I didn't have a pulley.

So, when the mash was done, I got creative, and grabbed 3 extra large cans of tomato sauce or beans or whatever they were from the pantry. Did a quick soak and scrub to get the labels and adhesive off. I placed the 3 cans down inside the kettle. Placed the strainer bucket on top of that (this obviously requires having a kettle with a strainer bucket), giving it pretty good clearance from the bottom. Then it was just a matter of lifting the bag for a few seconds from the cooler over to the bucket. Then press down like crazy with either thick rubber gloves, or a spare smaller pot-lid. I poured the liquid in the cooler into the kettle combining with the drained-liquid, then moved the bag back to the cooler, added more hot sparge water for 10 mins, moved back to the strainer bucket sitting in the kettle on top of large cans, and squeezed again. Done.

The only thing I had to do was move the "first runnings" into a spare old pot, or a bucket, for the 2nd draining, because the liquid was approaching the height of the cans after the first draining when combined with the liquid from the cooler.

Easy, and no pulley. Not saying it's the best method, but it worked beautifully, and with minimal lifting for only a few seconds at a time when moving from cooler to bucket and back a couple times. Not difficult, not high tech, but easy and effective.

I've seen others modify fermenting buckets with holes drilled to do a similar thing (bucket within a bucket), and it actually seems way easier to squeeze the grains (more like pushing down on them) from the ground rather than while hanging from a pulley.

Bottom-line, find what sounds interesting and fun to you, get creative, and make some great beer!


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[ncbrewer]

Still looking at some DIY mash tun instructions.

This website has the simplest mash tun instructions I've seen: http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

I used a drilled stopper instead of the minikeg bung - works the same. Simplified it by not using a valve - I just wrapped a cppper wire around the end, forming a hook. to stop the flow, I hang the hook on the cooler handle.