All Grain? Hah! No problem

[JMD87]

Yes it's another one of those "First All-Grain" posts.

Last night I brewed BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde. The entire operation went flawlessly. I pretty much nailed everything, except my evaporation rate because I was gun-shy about boiling over. However with the extra .25gal in my kettle I still exceeded the estimated FG by 2 points.

I guess I can't post without ONE question though. Do the majority of you siphon the chilled wort to the primary? I tried funneling and that was a bit messy.

Also, when chilling my wort I stir pretty well to cool faster, doing this gets a good amount of froth on top... wouldn't this be a good enough aeration method? Between that, pouring into a funnel with a screen & shaking the carboy violently, I'm confident I introduced enough oxygen into my sweet, sweet wort.

Anyway, my thanks goes out to everyone on this board. I suggest anyone thinking about switching to AG just do it. It's really not that hard.

Now... about that HERMS setup...

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

Congrats and welcome to the All Grain Club. I usually siphon my cooled wort into the primary. I use a SS fine strainer and a funnel to get the wort into the carboy. I have never had any problems and there is a good amount of foam formed on top of the wort.

 

[SporkD2]

Congrats!

I would highly recommend looking at some of the kettle designs on the board and making a nice valve for yourself. You can even get a weldless one from northernbrewer.com.

There are a few reasons for this. It makes it easier on yourself not having to hold that siphon. Secondly if you kettle is high enough from your bucket the action of letting it drop into the bucket can give you some good aeration.

 

[Saccharomyces]

Yes it's another one of those "First All-Grain" posts.

Last night I brewed BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde. The entire operation went flawlessly. I pretty much nailed everything, except my evaporation rate because I was gun-shy about boiling over. However with the extra .25gal in my kettle I still exceeded the estimated FG by 2 points.

Sweet.

I guess I can't post without ONE question though. Do the majority of you siphon the chilled wort to the primary? I tried funneling and that was a bit messy.

I wait for the temp to drop below 80, aerate well with the stir spoon, siphon, and aerate again with an aquarium pump before pitching. Don't aerate too warm or you may get HSA.

Between that, pouring into a funnel with a screen & shaking the carboy violently, I'm confident I introduced enough oxygen into my sweet, sweet wort.

Sure. The funnel method does have the advantage of aeration. Since I siphon I use the pump for extra oomph.

Congrats

- Eric

 

[jason.mundy]

Good job!

I just completed my first all grain about a month ago. It was a good feeling after the day was over and I had it in the fermenter.

I probably should wait, but I've been cracking a few beers open at three weeks. Pretty good!

 

[JMD87]

So the Centennial is happily bubbling away in the fermenter. This was not only my first AG, but the first time I used some type of fermentation temperature control (made possible by this forum).


Instead of starting a new thread, I'm hoping someone with experience can help me out here.

I'm using the Storage container/water/ice method for controling fermentation temp. I am using one of the stick-on acquarium thermometers on the Carboy, and I'm also using my SS Probe thermometer for the cold water. The Cold water is reading around 65*, and the carboy is out of range <64*. Usually it's the other way around (Carboy is warmer then chilled water). What gives? Which one should I trust?

I just used the SS thermometer for my mash, and got decent efficiency, also it started to boil right at 212*. I can't imagine the thermometer with a range of 64-70 could be inaccurate or fish would die.

Opinions?

 

[Saccharomyces]

I ferment using exactly your method. I just measure the water temp in the tub and try to keep it between 65 and 70 until bubbling has slowed and then I just let it warm to room temp. I wouldn't stress about it, 65 is awesome.

- Eric

 

[BierMuncher]

My guess is your stick on thermometer is picking up the temperature of the carboy wall...which is translating the cold water temp.

The center of your carboy is where you'd want a reading.

That said...I never worry about anything more than the ambient room temp. If my room temp is below 71 degrees, my beers are happy.

Also, you mentioned:

Also, when chilling my wort I stir pretty well to cool faster

You don't want to stir/aerate until that wort is below 100 degrees.

Congrats on a first AG.

 

[Sherpa FE]

My guess is your stick on thermometer is picking up the temperature of the carboy wall...which is translating the cold water temp.

The center of your carboy is where you'd want a reading.

That said...I never worry about anything more than the ambient room temp. If my room temp is below 71 degrees, my beers are happy.

Also, you mentioned:

You don't want to stir/aerate until that wort is below 100 degrees.

Congrats on a first AG.

Just curious....Why? I am guilty of this myself....

 

[findthefish]

Just curious....Why? I am guilty of this myself....

The mythical and mysterious HSA (hot side aeration). Seems more of a concern for commercial breweries than home brewers. I have never heard of this really being an issue, but why push it? Here's Mr. Wizard with more on the subject.

 

[BierMuncher]

Just curious....Why? I am guilty of this myself....

Hot side aeration (wet cardboard).

Let the debate begin.

Mr. Wizard replies: Hot-side aeration is a loose term referring to oxygen pickup in the “hot side” operations of brewing. These include mashing, lautering, wort boiling and hop separation at temperatures ranging from about 120–212° F. Over about the last 15 years, researchers have presented evidence that hot-side aeration — especially prior to wort boiling — decreases the shelf-life of beer by increasing the concentration of oxidized fatty acids. These compounds are carried forward into the beer and impart classic stale flavors such as the infamous “wet cardboard” type of oxidation.

 

[paul_h]

Yes it's another one of those "First All-Grain" posts.

Last night I brewed BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde. The entire operation went flawlessly. I pretty much nailed everything, except my evaporation rate because I was gun-shy about boiling over. However with the extra .25gal in my kettle I still exceeded the estimated FG by 2 points.

Congrats, I hope to join you in the next month or so. Learning how to do AG is the main reason why I went searching around for new HB forums etc.
Everything is so much more expensive in australia, ($130 for a cooler, $60 for a false bottom, $50 for a burner, $80 for an aluminium 40L pot, $40 for a regulator) so it's going to take me a while.

edit: Thats converted to $US and from the cheapest suppliers I've found after looking for a month. I should have the gear in a month or so I guess.

 

[cheezydemon]

Stirring with a spoon to cool invites (IMHO) hot side aeration, and possible infection.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Stirring with a spoon to cool invites (IMHO) hot side aeration, and possible infection.

HSA as discussed yes but not infection if it's the spoons he was using in his boil, or sprayed it with some sanitizer

 

[bradsul]

Stirring with a spoon to cool invites (IMHO) hot side aeration, and possible infection.

I do a hot-side whirlpool with a spoon before running through my CFC. I've not had either problem. The infection is unlikely since the wort is at boiling when you start stirring (provided you keep the spoon sanitized of course) and HSA seems to be a bit of a bogeyman in homebrewing.

 

[wildwest450]

I do a hot-side whirlpool with a spoon before running through my CFC. I've not had either problem. The infection is unlikely since the wort is at boiling when you start stirring (provided you keep the spoon sanitized of course) and HSA seems to be a bit of a bogeyman in homebrewing.

What exactly is the wort doing the whole time it is boiling? If you have a good rolling boil, it is aerating the piss put of itself. +1 on the bogeyman.

 

[findthefish]

What exactly is the wort doing the whole time it is boiling? If you have a good rolling boil, it is aerating the piss put of itself. +1 on the bogeyman.

While it's boiling it is impossible to dissolve any oxygen into it, since it is driving off all the oxygen (the reason you must oxygenate before pitching). The fear lies somewhere between 100 or 120F, and boiling. Adding oxygen to hot, but not boiling, wort is supposed to be when hot side aeration occurs.

This is a problem in a large scale commercial brewery because the amount of splashing and aeration is so much greater than anything you can do with a spoon and 5 gallons of wort.

 

[JMD87]

I guess I'll just do the ol' RDWHAHB thing and take a chill pill. My concern was that if my water was at 65*, the inside of the Carboy would be pushing 70+

However, I feel that's only the case with Fermentation Control refridgerators (because air is surrounding the Carboy, not water).

What a difference in fermentation though, every other beer I've made in the past fermented out in 2 days max.


Whether it's a myth or not, I'll just wait until I'm <100* to vigorously stir the cooling wort. I mean, how much time will it save me anyway?

 

[BierMuncher]

What exactly is the wort doing the whole time it is boiling? If you have a good rolling boil, it is aerating the piss put of itself. +1 on the bogeyman.

Actually just the opposite. Boiling pulls the O2 out of the beer.

That's why we have to re-aerate after it's cooled down.

From BYO Mr. Wizard:

After it's boiled, the wort is totally devoid of oxygen. In this type of medium, yeast must depend on its existing supply of glycogen (stored carbohydrates) for energy required for growth. How would you like to be asked to reproduce several times over without so much as a snack in between? The yeast might be able to do it once, but after that, it's through.

 

[JMD87]

My guess is your stick on thermometer is picking up the temperature of the carboy wall...which is translating the cold water temp.

The center of your carboy is where you'd want a reading.

QUOTE]

I just re-read this... and this is the point I'm trying to make I guess. The Carboy wall is reading below 64*(Out of range), and my ice water bath is reading around 65*. I'm measuring the wall with the Stick-on thermometer and the water bath with the probe thermometer.

It's my assumption that the Wort will be at about the same temperature of the icewater bath because water is surrounding the Carboy, not air. 5 Years of engineering school taught me... uh... water has a greater thermo-conductivity thingamabob?

It's fermenting really nicely though, very steady, tons of movement. Smells very hoppy. I'm curious to hear opinions of the Centennial Blonde from people with less of a pallet for good beer's. I consider myself pretty inexperienced when it comes pulling out flavors of beer.

 

[FireBrewer]

This is a problem in a large scale commercial brewery because the amount of splashing and aeration is so much greater than anything you can do with a spoon and 5 gallons of wort.

+1

HSA can occur.

Per Principles of Brewing Science (p.130), the late Dr. George Fix:

Hot-side aeration is fundamentally different [from cold-side aeration] because of the spread of redox reactions that occur at elevated temperatures. For example, introducing 1 mL of oxygen per liter of wort at 70°C [158°F] will start reactions that consume the free oxygen in seconds. The oxidized wort constituents will ultimately cause flavor problems in packaged beer via...long-chain staling aldehydes like trans-2-nonenal.
​

Oxygen that is bound to trans-2-nonenal does not get driven off by the boil as free oxygen does.

BUT...at the homebrewing level? Not likely. Moreso, you'd have to be able to differentiate between staling in packaged beer because of HSA and staling through other mechanisms.

The solution? Don't pour hot wort from your roof to your fermenter and DRINK THE BEER WHEN IT'S FINISHED.

To the OP, congrats on the success! Don't worry about the HSA stuff, there's far more important things to concern yourself with...like what you're going to brew next.

 

[wildwest450]

Actually just the opposite. Boiling pulls the O2 out of the beer.

That's why we have to re-aerate after it's cooled down.

From BYO Mr. Wizard:

Thank you for being the SECOND person to point out im an idiot. Way to crush my n00b all-grain ego.

 

[Yooper]

Thank you for being the SECOND person to point out im an idiot. Way to crush my n00b all-grain ego.

Awwww, don't worry about it. It's been pointed out to me WAY more than twice when I've been wrong! That means you are not regarded as a noob!

I'll use my husband's favorite line, "I'm not wrong. I'm just not as correct as I could have been".

 

[Sherpa FE]

I am trying to picture this....kinda made me laugh.
It that a one or two story roof? would a one story roof be ok? :cross:

 

[Sigafoos]

I had been pouring from my spigot into the bucket, but I think I may start siphoning from now on. Even with irish moss my red is cloudy as all get out, which I think is because I let too much of the trub go into the fermenter. I'm sure it can be any number of things, but I'll try mixing up my routine and see how it goes.

 

[Choguy03]

I had been pouring from my spigot into the bucket, but I think I may start siphoning from now on. Even with irish moss my red is cloudy as all get out, which I think is because I let too much of the trub go into the fermenter. I'm sure it can be any number of things, but I'll try mixing up my routine and see how it goes.

Try the good ol' whirpool. Stir to get a good circular motion in the pot and then let all the crap settle in the middle of the pot and then rack from the edge.

 

[bradsul]

Gotta love the whirlpool!

 

[FireBrewer]

I am trying to picture this....kinda made me laugh.
It that a one or two story roof? would a one story roof be ok? :cross:

(that's all I got, and here's my 10 characters )

 

[Saccharomyces]

Gotta love the whirlpool!

Woah, that's pretty high tech. Funny I never have heard of doing that before. Since I rack to the fermenter I'll give it a try.

- Eric

 

[bradsul]

Woah, that's pretty high tech. Funny I never have heard of doing that before. Since I rack to the fermenter I'll give it a try.

- Eric

The copper tube is just a syphon since I drain through a CFC. I whirlpool with a spoon - not too high tech really.

There's an article on the wiki with some more detail but there's not much to it really.

 

[BierMuncher]

I had been pouring from my spigot into the bucket, but I think I may start siphoning from now on. Even with irish moss my red is cloudy as all get out, which I think is because I let too much of the trub go into the fermenter. I'm sure it can be any number of things, but I'll try mixing up my routine and see how it goes.

I used to fight the trub.

But now this:



Gives me wort into my fermenter that looks like this:


And my beer looks like this:

 

[JMD87]

Just racked my Centennial Blonde to secondary and for anyone interested:

My hydrometer sample from primary vessel is probably 100x better than any extract I've ever made. Of course I do not put all the credit to All-Grain, because I also did my first full boil & Controlled fermentation temp's. But my beer finally tastes like *Gasp* BEER! No twang, no off flavors, just go ol' delicious beer.

I can't wait to pop my first bottle when it's aged properly. Thanks for the great recipe BierMuncher

 

[BierMuncher]

Just racked my Centennial Blonde to secondary and for anyone interested:

My hydrometer sample from primary vessel is probably 100x better than any extract I've ever made. Of course I do not put all the credit to All-Grain, because I also did my first full boil & Controlled fermentation temp's. But my beer finally tastes like *Gasp* BEER! No twang, no off flavors, just go ol' delicious beer.

I can't wait to pop my first bottle when it's aged properly. Thanks for the great recipe BierMuncher

You have just experienced the paradigm shift that is....all grain brewing. :rockin:

 

[FireBrewer]

Words to live by.

 

[Chriso]

LOL FireBrewer. I almost peed myself laughing!

BM, you don't know it, but you just helped me solve how to use my Hop Strainer with my keggle. Thanks for the solution.

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

Words to live by.

Firebrewer, Consider that stolen. Thanks.

 

[FireBrewer]

Firebrewer, Consider that stolen. Thanks.

My pleasure.