All-Grain Costs?!?!?!

[McLovinBeast57]

What's up guys!
I'm brand new to brewing but I've learned just about everything a beginner could possibly know haha. I'm looking forward to starting all-grain soon.. There are a couple things that are so confusing to me though:

First off, I see that there are tons of different theories about how much your grainbill should be compared to the total yield of brew. I saw someone used 34 pounds of grain for just a 5 gallon batch of stout! That seems crazy high to me... I was thinking around a pound for every 1 - 1.25 quarts of water.

Secondly, I am so confused on how most homebrewers say they are spending less than $15 on an entire recipe.. When I go to any online store (midwest supplies, northern brewer, more beer, etc.) the grainbill alone comes out to like over $50! Even when buying 50lbs. of 2-row in bulk..

So my questions are:
1. How many pounds would a grainbill be for say a 5 gallon batch? Is a pound per 1 - 1.25 quarts of water about right? And how much total water should I mash with including sparging?

2. How do you make an entire 5 gallon recipe for under $15? Where do you order it from? LHBS or online? What are the quantities you order?

Cheers!

 

[Richlandbrewer]

I have the luxury of living near a homebrew supply store (Kalamazoo, MI - Bells Brewing). They sell malt (both bulk and pre-packaged) for, on average, about $1.30/pound. Most run-of-the-mill all grain recipes use about 10# of malt. Their hops sell for about $1.50/ounce, give or take. A package of dry yeast is another buck and a half, maybe 2 bucks.

So 10# of malt at $1.30 = $13.50
3 ounces of hops at $1.50 = $4.50
pack of yeast = $2.00

All in - $20.00

Most all grain brewers use 1.3 to 1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain so you need a mash tun that holds at least 7 gallons or so.

If you have to mail order then you have to add the shipping, but you shouldn't be paying more than the above for the products.

 

[jjw5015]

Washing yeast and buying hops in bulk are huge money savers. Might want to invest in a vacuum sealer.

 

[kenpotf]

I don't keep grains like a lot of the others on here. I may have left over hops from previous batches, so the grain is the only thing that I usually need to buy. I just bought 9.5 lbs of grain, hops, and liquid yeast for 28.00. The last beer that I made cost 13.00. I think it depends on the type of grain that you're buying, but I could be wrong. I have had a beer run me 50.00 before, but when you take into account how many true bottles I'm getting out of it, I'm still saving money.

 

[bajaedition]

So my questions are:
1. How many pounds would a grainbill be for say a 5 gallon batch? Is a pound per 1 - 1.25 quarts of water about right? And how much total water should I mash with including sparging?

2. How do you make an entire 5 gallon recipe for under $15? Where do you order it from? LHBS or online? What are the quantities you order?

Cheers!

1 your quarts to pounds are for the mash, not the sparge, your sparge should be so you get your boil amt. the amt of grains is for the gravity you want and the 1 to 1.5 qts to a pound is to mash in. the amt o sparge water will differ with the volume of the mash.

2. I could make a entire 5 gallon batch for 9 bucks, depends on teh recipe

3. you need to find someone to brew an all grain batch with so you can see the answers to these questions and not go out and waste your money.

 

[MarcusKillion]

Home brew store for my grains . Anywhere from 130 to 2.00+ a pound depending on what you are buying . I buy my hops online from several places . I usually search all the places like hops direct , hopshack , yakima valley whole hops etc. I do not order from the brew supply stores as the prices are too high with shipping . I can buy a pound of hops for 13 bucks or so with 7 buck or free shipping . I just try them all to see who has the best deal at the time .
My yeast at lhbs but it is pricey at about 3.50 a pack for dry . But since I do not use a huge quantity of it it is fine .
I usually spend 20 to 30 on a 6 gallon batch . some beers like simple blondes are real cheap.
bought my brew pot from overstock.com . got a really good deal.
them 35 pound 5 gallon batches are most likely very strong stouts .

you could make 5 gallons of cream of three crops for under 20 bucks i am sure .
5 Lb 3.5 oz two row
1 Lb 11.8 oz corn ( use corn meal . it is cheaper than flaked )
7 oz rice ( use generic minute rice )
.47 willamette @60
.47 crystal @

 

[McLovinBeast57]

Thanks guys, really helpful stuff! I guess what I'm asking for the last part of the first question is how much sparge water would you use for a 5 gallon batch?


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[jmljr]

Buying hops in bulk will save you tons of money. Just brewed a 5 gal batch Zombie Dust inspired APA with half a pound of Citra...about 14# of grain.

12.50 for hops (would cost twice that if not buying by the #)
18 or so for grain (extract would be $30+ to get to same OG)
3.50 for yeast

 

[chickypad]

Thanks guys, really helpful stuff! I guess what I'm asking for the last part of the first question is how much sparge water would you use for a 5 gallon batch?

You might want to read through How to Brew or another source that walks you through the whole process. But basically you need figure out your target pre-boil volume, which will be the volume you want into the fermenter less boil off and any kettle trub losses. Sparge volume will be whatever your pre-boil volume is minus the first runnings from your mash. First runnings from your mash will be total mash water less absorption from grain and any tun deadspace (if you're using a tun).

How much grain you need for your grain bill will depend on the OG of the recipe and your efficiency - which can vary greatly system to system and brewer to brewer. Typical ranges for me would be 9-15 lbs per 5 gallon. The amount of mash water is then determined by your grainbill and how thick you want to mash.

Buying grain in bulk usually only saves significant money if you don't have to deal with shipping or can do a group buy to save on that part. I live close enough to the LHBS that I can get a 50lb sack of 2 row for 36$. At 72 cents per lb you can see how a grainbill could be pretty inexpensive. You'll definitely save on ingredients over extract, but if you're like me as you get more into brewing you will probably end up spending all the savings and then some on other toys.

 

[Moose_MI]

Just did my first all grain....7.5lbs of grain..mostly 2 row...reused yeast...$14 5gal batch....they won't all be this cheap but feeling good about what I did brew on

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[Transamguy77]

Thanks guys, really helpful stuff! I guess what I'm asking for the last part of the first question is how much sparge water would you use for a 5 gallon batch?


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The amount changes for every brew, just as the amount of grain does.

You had mentioned 34 lbs for a stout, that was probably for a imperial stout that had a gravity of prob like 1.090 or more, your grain bill is determined by how much you want for an original gravity to be for example if you are making a pale ale that you want in the 6% range you will want your OG to be like 1.056 so you need enough grain to extract enough sugars to get that OG, prob 11-12lbs of base malt (or at least on my system).

As far as price buying in bulk will help, I usually get in on a grain buy and get 2 row for .80 cents a pound, hops in bulk 10-14 a pound and wash my yeast so I can get 8-10 brews out of 1 pack of yeast.

There is free brew software out there I think hopville is one, the best way to understand it is to get some brew software and then you can change up the numbers and see the changes for yourself.


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[Zepth]

The all grain savings really require the bulk discount effect. My local store sells grains at $2/lb, or ~$40 (avg) for a 55lb sack. 73 cents /lb. About 1/3 the cost. Now that means you have to buy more equipment the most obvious being a quality mill. I figured that after equipment cost I break even after my first 2 bags of grain are used up as compared to various extract batches. After that is when I actually start saving.

I have yet to wash my yeast, or the alternative of getting a liquid and pitching 3/4 starter and re-starting. Still experimenting with what yeast I like in what beer, and at $2 for a pack it isn't breaking the bank.

My most recent:
4kg 2 row $6.40
2oz hops $4.50
yeast on sale $1
$11.90 for the batch. Cheapest can kit $19 + BYO sugar. And you're better off with LME instead of sugar for another $7 (using local prices) = $26.

 

[chfrey3]

This is article explains the mash/sparge calculation pretty well

http://www.brew365.com/technique_calculating_mash_water_volume.php


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[C-Rider]

You guys on the continent (N.A.) are lucky. Here in Hawai`i 2-row is $1.70/lb and everything else is $2.50/lb.

 

[masskrug]

My target is about $25 per batch for ingredients. typically I will use 10-15 pounds of grain and about 6 ounces of hops.
Buy grains in bulk, store them in 5 gallon buckets.
Buy hops by the pound.
Priming sugar by the pound.
Wash and reuse yeast.

 

[jjw5015]

I already wash yeast and buy hops in bulk. Buying sacks of grain is my next one after I get a mill. I use mostly 12# of 2-row to make ipas. My LHBS charges $1.75/lb so that comes out to $21 per batch. They sell 55 lb sacks for $42 which comes to $0.76/lb or $9 per batch. The extra equipment will pay for itself in no time.

 

[jjw5015]

My target is about $25 per batch for ingredients. typically I will use 10-15 pounds of grain and about6 ounces of hops.
Buy grains in bulk, store them in 5 gallon buckets.
Buy hops by the pound.
Priming sugar by the pound.
Wash and reuse yeast.

+1 to the priming sugar as well. That usually runs $1 for a 4-5 oz bag. But I can get a 4 lb bag for $5-6. I break them down into 4 oz bags and vacuum seal. That gets me through 16 batches.

 

[chickypad]

You guys on the continent (N.A.) are lucky. Here in Hawai`i 2-row is $1.70/lb and everything else is $2.50/lb.

I knew there was a reason to be glad I don't have to live in Hawaii!

 

[Brewmex41]

One thing I do is get a liquid yeast, and make a starter that is way too big. Then ill pitch what I need and save the rest for a future brew and ill make a future starter. One way to save money.

 

[Teromous]

So my questions are:
1. How many pounds would a grainbill be for say a 5 gallon batch? Is a pound per 1 - 1.25 quarts of water about right? And how much total water should I mash with including sparging?

2. How do you make an entire 5 gallon recipe for under $15? Where do you order it from? LHBS or online? What are the quantities you order?

1) You can't just calculate backwards from water to pounds. It depends on the gravity of wort you can achieve from the mash and your efficiency. If my grain has a bad crush, I could lose 3% efficiency. I may lose or gain efficiency based on the volume of grain in my mash tun as well. It can also change from batch to batch. There is no way to tell every single person that they will need XX lbs of grain. A person with less efficiency will obviously need more grain to compensate. It also depends on the gravity you hope to achieve. I can make a low ABV beer that uses far less grain than a batch with a higher ABV.

2) There are plenty of ways to do this. As mentioned in step 1, you can cut down on grain costs by making a low ABV beer. You can also reduce the quantity of specialty grains and "boutique" base malts (floor malted barley, more expensive brands).

Buying bulk grains and milling them yourself is another way to both save money and ensure a desired crush. There are rumors that homebrew stores use a wider crush to reduce your efficiency that forces you to buy more grain. The rumor is that they won't reduce the mill gap because they say it causes a stuck sparge. (I hope my last comment doesn't start a huge debate)

Another way to reduce costs is to make beers with fewer hops, or cheaper hops. Buy them in bulk when you can, and be on the lookout for old-stock hop sales and "non-popular variety" sales. The most expensive element for me is yeast. By rinsing yeast and reusing it you will save a lot of money. Even dry yeast costs $3.99 at my LHBS! Just be careful when doing this. You may save yourself $3.99 but spoil the whole batch with an infected pitch.

 

[Bordy]

I knew there was a reason to be glad I don't have to live in Hawaii!

The extra $0.30-$0.75 per pound of grain is a small price to pay for living in paradise. It use to be cheaper to buy grain online, but with shipping prices going through the roof, that has changed.


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[mrduna01]

42 a lb is a good price my lhbs is around 65 so ill usually buy on northern brewer which comes out to 50 after shipping. Will they not let you mill your base grains at the shop if you go ahead and buy a sack?

So many beers... so little time.

 

[wilserbrewer]

You guys on the continent (N.A.) are lucky. Here in Hawai`i 2-row is $1.70/lb and everything else is $2.50/lb.

C'mon man you live on one of the most desirable islands on the planet, lately with the single digit temps in the morning, and clearing the snow out if the driveway weekly, an extra $0.75 a pound is not unreasonable.
Cheers!

 

[Flboy]

All grain cost.. I was just about to ask the same question, I am doing partial grain at the moment and am trying to justify the leap to all grain. Yes, am cheap, so major factor, work load? Nope! Cheap! My standards for beer are growing,,,,but right now? A-no immediate vomiting, B- a buz, C-no diaria,,, everything after that is nirvana!