Alabama...**sigh**

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
This was an easy one for the ABC:

ALABAMA ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL BOARD ADMINISTRATIVE CODE
CHAPTER 20-X-6.01 Licensed Premises.

(1) Any ABC Board licensee and/or any person applying initially for an ABC Board license, by virtue of holding such license or making such application does agree, invite, consent, and authorize agents of the ABC Board, as well as other commissioned law enforcement officers having proper jurisdiction, at any time, to enter and search the premises, observe the operation, and otherwise enforce state laws, and rules and regulations of the ABC Board in or about said premises, without a warrant, including not only the licensed premises but any building owned or occupied by the licensee in connection therewith, adjoining, or adjacent thereto, whether or not connected or used by the licensee as a private dwelling.
 
This was an easy one for the ABC:

ALABAMA ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL BOARD ADMINISTRATIVE CODE
CHAPTER 20-X-6.01 Licensed Premises.

(1) Any ABC Board licensee and/or any person applying initially for an ABC Board license, by virtue of holding such license or making such application does agree, invite, consent, and authorize agents of the ABC Board, as well as other commissioned law enforcement officers having proper jurisdiction, at any time, to enter and search the premises, observe the operation, and otherwise enforce state laws, and rules and regulations of the ABC Board in or about said premises, without a warrant, including not only the licensed premises but any building owned or occupied by the licensee in connection therewith, adjoining, or adjacent thereto, whether or not connected or used by the licensee as a private dwelling.

Yep. The reason that this place got busted in that they applied for a liquor license and ABC came in and saw homebrewing gear. ABC has no authority over standard HBS shops.

Alabama, fix your crap.
 
Sometimes I REALLY hate this state. I wish Alabama Homebrewer's Association would let Free the Hops help them in their constitution amendment initiative. FTH has approached them several times offering to spear-head or assist in the endeavor, but the AHA wants to take the action on their own. FTH has been so successful and they have lobbyists, so I'm not sure why AHA isn't letting them in on it. I used to live next to a HPD officer and I asked him what his opinion was on the matter. He said it's an antiquated law, but he's obligated to enforce it....unless his back was turned. So from that day forward I was known to make very large batches of barley tea.
 
Wow, this is absurd. What a sad day for liberty.

This is not meant to be a political statement, but this is what Alabamans are up against: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVqnUf8NH6g

Wow, these ignorant people spewing propaganda are in charge. Yes Alabama the other states where homebrew is legal are on the verge of collapse and most likely will be the cause for the zombie apocalypse.
 
Sad. You can brew in the kitchen of the White House but not anywhere in the state of Alabama. AHA member here too and doing all I can to get those laws in your state fixed.
 
Wow, these ignorant people spewing propaganda are in charge. Yes Alabama the other states where homebrew is legal are on the verge of collapse and most likely will be the cause for the zombie apocalypse.

Well, if zombies can fill themselves up on stupid, they'll never have to leave Montgomery.
 
Again, the phrase "to be used" implies some sort of intent to me, so the large-potted homemaker would be just fine. But we all know how easy proving "intent to brew" is. So I agree with you, it is ambiguous and difficult to enforce.

Yeah, I can see how that might work for them. I think that if they sold stuff advertised, or labels as specifically for homebrewing, then they might be easy targets. Much different than simply stocking pots and tubing. If you come out and say "this item is to be used in homebrewing", then you are probably asking for it.

Oh well. Good luck to them.

Just realized I'm sitting here listening to Hayseed Dixie sing about drinking likker and smoking pot. How appropriate.

Work is done, see y'all later!
 
Sometimes I REALLY hate this state. I wish Alabama Homebrewer's Association would let Free the Hops help them in their constitution amendment initiative. FTH has approached them several times offering to spear-head or assist in the endeavor, but the AHA wants to take the action on their own. FTH has been so successful and they have lobbyists, so I'm not sure why AHA isn't letting them in on it.

Whattawort: That's actually incorrect. Several years back, the homebrewers approached FTH about pushing the homebrew bill (not a constitutional amendment, just a change to the code of Alabama). At the time, FTH made it clear that they would support any endeavor, but it wouldn't be their highest priority until the ABV, bottle size, and brewpub bills were passed. So it was mutually decided that Right To Brew would push the bill themselves. At the end of the most recent legislative session, FTH made a friendly offer to take over the process. This meant finding a new sponsor, rewriting the bill, and essentially starting from scratch. After some discussion, the RTB people decided that it didn't make sense to start from scratch and could likely set the entire process back by 2-3 years.

To clarify, FTH is 100% supportive of the RTB effort. They've thrown what resources they can behind the bill, and they've used their mailing lists to call on members to email the legislators. The support FTH has provided in the past will continue. The only thing RTB said no to was to completely give up the process, the relationships RTB members had established with their legislators and bill sponsors, and the progress that had already been made to start the process over. FTH stated that they agreed with the decision from RTB, and some of the FTH leaders noted that their success has been with bills with direct commercial interests, and there's no certainty that they would have made any more progress pushing the homebrew bill than RTB has.

Also, the bill was on the verge of passage last year. It made it through the house, and it had the votes in the senate. The problem was that it ran out of time before the session ended. The governor is good friends with the bill sponsor (and in Alabama it takes a simple majority vote in both houses to override a veto). The exact same bill is being submitted this year, and there is a very good chance it will finally pass. FTH may take up an effort in future years to improve the bill after we can ensure that homebrewers can't be convicted of a felony in this state.
 
Whattawort: That's actually incorrect. Several years back, the homebrewers approached FTH about pushing the homebrew bill (not a constitutional amendment, just a change to the code of Alabama). At the time, FTH made it clear that they would support any endeavor, but it wouldn't be their highest priority until the ABV, bottle size, and brewpub bills were passed. So it was mutually decided that Right To Brew would push the bill themselves. At the end of the most recent legislative session, FTH made a friendly offer to take over the process. This meant finding a new sponsor, rewriting the bill, and essentially starting from scratch. After some discussion, the RTB people decided that it didn't make sense to start from scratch and could likely set the entire process back by 2-3 years.

To clarify, FTH is 100% supportive of the RTB effort. They've thrown what resources they can behind the bill, and they've used their mailing lists to call on members to email the legislators. The support FTH has provided in the past will continue. The only thing RTB said no to was to completely give up the process, the relationships RTB members had established with their legislators and bill sponsors, and the progress that had already been made to start the process over. FTH stated that they agreed with the decision from RTB, and some of the FTH leaders noted that their success has been with bills with direct commercial interests, and there's no certainty that they would have made any more progress pushing the homebrew bill than RTB has.

Also, the bill was on the verge of passage last year. It made it through the house, and it had the votes in the senate. The problem was that it ran out of time before the session ended. The governor is good friends with the bill sponsor (and it Alabama it takes a simple majority vote in both houses to override a veto). The exact same bill is being submitted this year, and there is a very good chance it will finally pass. FTH may take up an effort in future years to improve the bill after we can ensure that homebrewers can't be convicted of a felony in this state.

AHH. Thanks for the correction/info. I'm looking forward to all of this coming to fruition.
 
"We were compliant prior to their entering the store," Torres said.
"We're completely at the mercy of the ABC board at this point," Torres said.


Attempts to reach ABC Board representatives by e-mail and phone were not returned Thursday evening.

^Most important 2 lines in the story. Nothing, is better than government! :rockin:
 
Was in Alabrew this afternoon, and Kim echoed the point about ABC jurisdiction. His wife was bummed out about commenters on the AL.com story about the raid who kept asking questions like "so why is Alabrew OK?" Thanks for the extra visibility, guys.

Can't wait for the laws to change, and I really hope this year's resubmit of the bill does it. What an unmitigated PITA. I moved here from Richmond, VA in 2003, and evidently even the possession of all my up-til-then-legal brew equipment and books was illegal. Ugh!

-Rich
 
I think this is one of those circumstances where the as-yet unused non-harm principle of lawmaking should apply.
 
Actually a 40 is illegal in the state.

It wasn't too long ago that you couldn't buy a high gravity beer in Alabama and up until last August you couldn't get a bomber in the state. Free the Hops pushed through legislation to change both those laws (bottles can be 22.5 oz now, anything larger is illegal)

They were able to change those laws because the could sell the economic impact of passing the new laws.

Home brewing is a different story. It is hard to sell on an economic basis and many of the people, and in turn their elected representatives, are against any alcohol based on their religious beliefs. That is why it is not a wise move politically to back this bill

Please don't turn this into a political/religious debate. Whether it is right or wrong in our eyes doesn't really matter. It is just the way it is here(right now).

The homebrew bill was close to passing last year until it ran out of time(was stalled) in the Senate. They are going to submit the same bill in the House and the Senate this year at the same time. Hopefully it will get through.
 
Again, the phrase "to be used" implies some sort of intent to me, so the large-potted homemaker would be just fine. But we all know how easy proving "intent to brew" is. So I agree with you, it is ambiguous and difficult to enforce.

I believe this is why the books were also confiscated, so that the ABC can attempt to prove the intended use of the equipment.

Although confiscating books sounds quite fascist.
 
I don't understand?!? Brewing equipment does NOT make beer/alcohol...yeast does. Brewing equipment just makes sweet, sexy, glorious wort. This should be an open and shut case.
 
Waiting for the big court case...Alabama v. Saccharomyces cerevisiae

Don't laugh, far stranger things have been brought to court.
 
I don't understand?!? Brewing equipment does NOT make beer/alcohol...yeast does. Brewing equipment just makes sweet, sexy, glorious wort. This should be an open and shut case.
See: Constructive law
 
I don't see ABC raiding the local Publix for their bread yeast, pots, pans, strainers, grain, or turkey basters.

any teen would easily be able to go buy some juice, bread yeast, and sugar and make some hooch, and if i had to guess most cashiers wouldnt be smart enough to know what those ingredients were for. Its a stupid law, that really doesnt protect anyone.
 
Any updates? What happened when the gestapo violent abc 'authorities returned?

Although confiscating books sounds quite fascist.

Confiscating books is ALWAYS fascist. Ideas are dangerous to someone no matter if their intent is good or bad. The most dangerous idea of all is an idea that opposes the right of the individual to decide for him/her-self what is right or wrong.
 
One update. The company Hop City removed all extra homebrew gear voluntarily and announced yesterday they received their license to sell liquor. Their tweet seemed like they were happy.

Kraig Torres (@HopCity)
9/24/12, 3:29 PM
Proud to say we're now "legal" in AL- ABC Board just gave us our beer/wine license. We're finally set to open this week...on Thurs!
 
One update. The company Hop City removed all extra homebrew gear voluntarily and announced yesterday they received their license to sell liquor. Their tweet seemed like they were happy.

Kraig Torres (@HopCity)
9/24/12, 3:29 PM
Proud to say we're now "legal" in AL- ABC Board just gave us our beer/wine license. We're finally set to open this week...on Thurs!

Maybe the homebrew legalization bill will pass this year and they can put their homebrew merchandise back out.
 
Thanks for the update guys! Good luck to HopCity and all 'oppressed' homebrewers (I know it's a bit of a heavy word, but the jail time one faces for operating outside asinine laws is oppressive).
 
Whattawort: That's actually incorrect. Several years back, the homebrewers approached FTH about pushing the homebrew bill (not a constitutional amendment, just a change to the code of Alabama). At the time, FTH made it clear that they would support any endeavor, but it wouldn't be their highest priority until the ABV, bottle size, and brewpub bills were passed. So it was mutually decided that Right To Brew would push the bill themselves. At the end of the most recent legislative session, FTH made a friendly offer to take over the process. This meant finding a new sponsor, rewriting the bill, and essentially starting from scratch. After some discussion, the RTB people decided that it didn't make sense to start from scratch and could likely set the entire process back by 2-3 years.

To clarify, FTH is 100% supportive of the RTB effort. They've thrown what resources they can behind the bill, and they've used their mailing lists to call on members to email the legislators. The support FTH has provided in the past will continue. The only thing RTB said no to was to completely give up the process, the relationships RTB members had established with their legislators and bill sponsors, and the progress that had already been made to start the process over. FTH stated that they agreed with the decision from RTB, and some of the FTH leaders noted that their success has been with bills with direct commercial interests, and there's no certainty that they would have made any more progress pushing the homebrew bill than RTB has.

Also, the bill was on the verge of passage last year. It made it through the house, and it had the votes in the senate. The problem was that it ran out of time before the session ended. The governor is good friends with the bill sponsor (and in Alabama it takes a simple majority vote in both houses to override a veto). The exact same bill is being submitted this year, and there is a very good chance it will finally pass. FTH may take up an effort in future years to improve the bill after we can ensure that homebrewers can't be convicted of a felony in this state.


Needs to be said again, IMO. I think we're going to get this done this year. The HC raid is also probably going to help in that regard, although this sin't over yet.
 
OUR VIEW: Repeal ban on home-brewing in wet counties
Published: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 7:05 AM
By Mike Hollis, The Huntsville Times
Follow

6


Share
Email
Print
Fifty years ago and before, it made sense for the state to have a law banning the

sale and possession of the equipment and ingredients to make beer and wine to drink at home.
At the time, the sale and possession of any sort of intoxicating drink or beverage was illegal in most Alabama counties, and sheriffs spent a lot of time and made a big to do when they busted up moonshine stills deep in the piney woods.
Times and attitudes change, and that's why the Legislature should repeal the law that bans the sale and possession of home beer brewing equipment and ingredients in cities and counties where alcohol isn't banned.
The subject comes up because of a raid agents of the Alabama Alcoholic Beverage Control Board staged last week at a beer and wine store in Birmingham, Hop City Craft Beer and Wine. Three agents seized immersion chillers, carboys and other supplies, including literature on home brewing. (The ABC insists this was not a "raid" but an inspection, and that Hop City had been warned that home brewing equipment had to go.)
ABC agents really have no choice but to make a seizure in a case like this because that's what the law requires. Here's what it says: "It shall be unlawful for any person, firm or corporation in this state to manufacture, sell, give away or have in possession any still, apparatus, appliance or any device or substitute therefore to be used for the purpose of manufacturing any prohibited liquors or beverages."
Many of the items used in home brewing, including buckets, grain and yeast, can be found in grocery and home improvement stores, although not all of it in one place. That's apparently why Hop City made headlines.
David Peacock, an attorney for the ABC Board, explained it this way to The Birmingham News' Madison Underwood: "You can have sugar, you can have malt, you can have hops, you can have tubing, copper and everything else, but if you put it all together in a store and market it like it's going to be home brewing stuff and have a book about how to do it, it's a problem."
If you know anything about Alabama, you won't be surprised to hear that it's is one of only two states where home brewing is illegal. Of course, Mississippi is the other one. There was a time when residents of every small Alabama town with an Episcopal congregation chuckled about the little old woman who made muscadine wine, only for communion, you understand. The sheriffs in these places never dared mess with the free exercise of religion.
Alabama's law on this point for communities where alcoholic beverages are legal is an artifact of the prohibition era. This is the Age of the Internet (and UPS). For a trifling sum, you can have delivered (inconspicuously) to your front door every piece of equipment and ingredient you need to brew up all types of beers to drink at home.
For some, home brewing is a hobby as satisfying and rewarding as any other, maybe more so. And so long as beer and wine can be bought legally in a community, there's little reason to outlaw the local sale of the stuff to make them.
By Mike Hollis, for the editorial board. Email: [email protected].
Inappropriate post? Alert us.
Related topics: editorial
 
CGVT said:
OUR VIEW: Repeal ban on home-brewing in wet counties
Published: Tuesday, September 25, 2012, 7:05 AM
By Mike Hollis, The Huntsville Times
Follow

6

Share
Email
Print
Fifty years ago and before, it made sense for the state to have a law banning the

sale and possession of the equipment and ingredients to make beer and wine to drink at home.
At the time, the sale and possession of any sort of intoxicating drink or beverage was illegal in most Alabama counties, and sheriffs spent a lot of time and made a big to do when they busted up moonshine stills deep in the piney woods.
Times and attitudes change, and that's why the Legislature should repeal the law that bans the sale and possession of home beer brewing equipment and ingredients in cities and counties where alcohol isn't banned.
The subject comes up because of a raid agents of the Alabama Alcoholic Beverage Control Board staged last week at a beer and wine store in Birmingham, Hop City Craft Beer and Wine. Three agents seized immersion chillers, carboys and other supplies, including literature on home brewing. (The ABC insists this was not a "raid" but an inspection, and that Hop City had been warned that home brewing equipment had to go.)
ABC agents really have no choice but to make a seizure in a case like this because that's what the law requires. Here's what it says: "It shall be unlawful for any person, firm or corporation in this state to manufacture, sell, give away or have in possession any still, apparatus, appliance or any device or substitute therefore to be used for the purpose of manufacturing any prohibited liquors or beverages."
Many of the items used in home brewing, including buckets, grain and yeast, can be found in grocery and home improvement stores, although not all of it in one place. That's apparently why Hop City made headlines.
David Peacock, an attorney for the ABC Board, explained it this way to The Birmingham News' Madison Underwood: "You can have sugar, you can have malt, you can have hops, you can have tubing, copper and everything else, but if you put it all together in a store and market it like it's going to be home brewing stuff and have a book about how to do it, it's a problem."
If you know anything about Alabama, you won't be surprised to hear that it's is one of only two states where home brewing is illegal. Of course, Mississippi is the other one. There was a time when residents of every small Alabama town with an Episcopal congregation chuckled about the little old woman who made muscadine wine, only for communion, you understand. The sheriffs in these places never dared mess with the free exercise of religion.
Alabama's law on this point for communities where alcoholic beverages are legal is an artifact of the prohibition era. This is the Age of the Internet (and UPS). For a trifling sum, you can have delivered (inconspicuously) to your front door every piece of equipment and ingredient you need to brew up all types of beers to drink at home.
For some, home brewing is a hobby as satisfying and rewarding as any other, maybe more so. And so long as beer and wine can be bought legally in a community, there's little reason to outlaw the local sale of the stuff to make them.
By Mike Hollis, for the editorial board. Email: [email protected].
Inappropriate post? Alert us.
Related topics: editorial

Exactly. This is just another case of trying to govern morals.
 
Dang... Better start confiscating lights used to grow plants indoors, and clay pots, and aluminum foil, and soil, and thoughts.

I really love Michigan the older I get.
 
Dang... Better start confiscating lights used to grow plants indoors, and clay pots, and aluminum foil, and soil, and thoughts.

I really love Michigan the older I get.

Naw, man, that stuff is legal, man! Like I hear ads on the radio all the time, man! I heard you can get a license to grow your own at home and everything! All you gotta do is go to your doctor and make up some fake illness, man! Like your back hurts, or you get migraines or stuff like that.

What was I talking about just now? Man, I can't remember.

Oh yeah, like you got any ding dongs, man? I could really dig some ding dongs.
 
Apologies. I thought this subject was about the law. No offense intended about the state.
 
Wow... I had no idea. It's like growing your own for a lot of states nowadays. An archaic law that has no real use today.

So what's worse in Alabama... Growing weed or brewing beer. ;)
 
Back
Top