Alabama Homebrewer Arrested

[Homercidal]

Hell, a friend of mine had the cops show up once because his basement lights were on all the time. So they got a warrant to check if he was growing pot. He wasn't, but he did have many semi-exotic plants growing down there. So because of his hobby he got checked out. He was sure it was the neighbors who called the police.

 

[Hermit]

Hell, a friend of mine had the cops show up once because his basement lights were on all the time. So they got a warrant to check if he was growing pot. He wasn't, but he did have many semi-exotic plants growing down there. So because of his hobby he got checked out. He was sure it was the neighbors who called the police.

Exactly my point. Someone decides your lights are on 'too long' is grounds for a search warrant? Don't you have to have evidence, not suspicions, for a warrant? Are judges just handing out warrants for cops that are too lazy/overworked to do some legwork? But, we are digressing from the purpose of the thread here....

 

[viking73]

Kade (the homebrewer in question) still has not gone to trial. I've only got third-hand information, but it sounds like the cops thought they had a big moonshine bust and don't really care about the homebrewing side of it. There was a small amount of moonshine present with his equipment, but he claims he was given it by a friend. There was talk back in December that his lawyer was negotiating a misdemeanor (possibly possession?) charge or even the possibility of getting the whole thing thrown out. There is even a possibility that he gets his equipment back. Last I heard was that there was supposed to be a new hearing on Dec. 15, but we haven't gotten an update since then.

Thanks for the update!

 

[SumnerH]

I don't think there is a law against stills anyhow.

All stills must be registered with the BATF. If they saw one through the window and it wasn't on file as registered, that'd be probable cause.

See 26 USC 5101 - Sec. 5101. "Notice of manufacture of still; notice of set up of still".

 

[Hermit]

All stills must be registered with the BATF. If they saw one through the window and it wasn't on file as registered, that'd be probable cause.

See 26 USC 5101 - Sec. 5101. "Notice of manufacture of still; notice of set up of still".

(a) Requirements Every person having in his possession or custody, or under his control, any still or distilling apparatus set up, shall register such still or apparatus with the Secretary immediately on its being set up, by subscribing and filing with the Secretary a statement, in writing, setting forth the particular place where such still or distilling apparatus is set up, the kind of still and its capacity, the owner thereof, his place of residence, and the purpose for which said still or distilling apparatus has been or is intended to be used (except that stills or distilling apparatus not used or intended to be used for the distillation, redistillation, or recovery of distilled spirits are not required to be registered under this section). (b) Cross references (1) For penalty and forfeiture provisions relating to unregistered stills, see sections 5601(a)(1) and 5615(1). (2) For provisions requiring notification to set up a still, boiler, or other vessel for distilling, see section 5101(a)(2).

Read more: http://vlex.com/vid/sec-stills-19210812#ixzz1AYglh61N

Again my question would be don't they have to have some evidence that he used this 'still' for alcohol recovery? It could have been for water, in which case, he wasn't required to register it. Back to my computer example. It can be used for all sorts of illegal activity. Does that mean they can look in my window and get a warrant based on my having a computer? Seems a little too easy to get a warrant.
​

 

[Airborneguy]

Remember that this is Alabama, where homebrewing beer is illegal. That could have been the basis for any warrant. The level of evidence needed for a judge to issue a warrant varies wildly state-to-state. Trust me, in NY, there wouldn't have been a warrant issued in this case.

And furthermore, in any legal situation, where your info is coming from the media, there is always more to the story...

 

[passedpawn]

(a) Requirements Every person having in his possession or custody, or under his control, any still or distilling apparatus set up, shall register such still or apparatus with the Secretary immediately on its being set up, by subscribing and filing with the Secretary a statement, in writing, setting forth the particular place where such still or distilling apparatus is set up, the kind of still and its capacity, the owner thereof, his place of residence, and the purpose for which said still or distilling apparatus has been or is intended to be used (except that stills or distilling apparatus not used or intended to be used for the distillation, redistillation, or recovery of distilled spirits are not required to be registered under this section). (b) Cross references (1) For penalty and forfeiture provisions relating to unregistered stills, see sections 5601(a)(1) and 5615(1). (2) For provisions requiring notification to set up a still, boiler, or other vessel for distilling, see section 5101(a)(2).

Read more: http://vlex.com/vid/sec-stills-19210812#ixzz1AYglh61N

Again my question would be don't they have to have some evidence that he used this 'still' for alcohol recovery? It could have been for water, in which case, he wasn't required to register it. Back to my computer example. It can be used for all sorts of illegal activity. Does that mean they can look in my window and get a warrant based on my having a computer? Seems a little too easy to get a warrant.
​

You keep replacing "probably cause" with "evidence". ??

I'd say they had probably cause.

 

[Hermit]

You keep replacing "probably cause" with "evidence". ??

I'd say they had probably cause.

Well, replace 'probable cause' with 'fact' then. Suspicion is far from probable cause. They suspected that contraption they saw looking into his window was a still and that he used it for illegal purposes? ( If you distill water and someone look in your window and sees that you won't mind the cops showing up at your door with a warrant?) Yet there was no other evidence of a crime? Someone said above that this wouldn't have gotten a warrant in New York.

Again, if probable cause is simply some peeping Tom looking into your window and seeing something that COULD be used for a crime we are all going to have to build our houses without windows because we have NO constitutional protection from search then.

 

[Bottenbrew]

You already don't unless your house is a long ways off a public roadway.

 

[kingjam]

What about the local Home brew shop ALABREW. How come they don't get shut down for selling homebrew supplies? They are located in Birmingham Al.

 

[passedpawn]

All the authorities need to get a warrant and enter your house is probable cause. They can approach your house, and look in the windows, without a warrant.

Homebrewing in AL is illegal, not just distilling.

So, this guy was just not being careful. Neighbor calls and says he is doing something wrong, police look in windows and see apparatus that appears to be (and was) used for making alcohol. Seems cut and dry to me.

 

[weirdboy]

It sure would suck to have a nice conical like that confiscated by the police.

 

[bovineblitz]

What about the local Home brew shop ALABREW. How come they don't get shut down for selling homebrew supplies? They are located in Birmingham Al.

Probably the same way headshops aren't illegal in most places. The paraphernalia is only illegal if used for illegal purposes. The items themselves are not illegal.

 

[chemist308]

Wow this is sad. That guy even appeared to have better equipment than many of us. Debating if it's right is pointless since it's not even a question--of course it's unconstitutional law. Remember it when you vote, especially if you're from that state.

Realistically we should probably have something that tracks politicians, at the very least. It would have even more clout if it could be aligned with another political issue that most of us could agree on, but we need to cover the basic need of tracking politicians first. That's how to keep our rights safe.

 

[Hermit]

Probably the same way headshops aren't illegal in most places. The paraphernalia is only illegal if used for illegal purposes. The items themselves are not illegal.

All the authorities need to get a warrant and enter your house is probable cause. They can approach your house, and look in the windows, without a warrant.

Homebrewing in AL is illegal, not just distilling.

So, this guy was just not being careful. Neighbor calls and says he is doing something wrong, police look in windows and see apparatus that appears to be (and was) used for making alcohol. Seems cut and dry to me.

Here is the problem. They don't list the neighbor on the warrant. You have the right to face your accuser. As stated above, owning the equipment is NOT illegal. You need BOTH for probable cause. The neighbor saying he saw you use the equipment in an illegal manner and the police verifying you have the equipment the neighbor's allegations are based on. This is probably why they are discussing dropping charges and returning the equipment. The warrant may well have been defective. Every bit of his equipment has other legal uses. Nowhere is it indicated they saw fermenters. Those were probably kept out of site just because of light damage to beer.

 

[kingjam]

Well I live in Birmingham AL and I am going to brew beer till they haul me off to jail.

 

[chemist308]

Alright, clearly on Alabama laws they probably got him. But...

Is there a legal defense fund for this? If this guy gets the right attorneys and has some financial backing, it may be possible to take this outside of the Alabama court system and set a very good precedent for home brewers everywhere. A similar thing was done with the right to keep and bear arms v/s DC. And basically, we'd need to focus the fight on the right to brew. The right to distill going to be a harder fight, and not one we could win concurrently with this.

 

[passedpawn]

Alright, clearly on Alabama laws they probably got him. But...

Is there a legal defense fund for this? If this guy gets the right attorneys and has some financial backing, it may be possible to take this outside of the Alabama court system and set a very good precedent for home brewers everywhere. A similar thing was done with the right to keep and bear arms v/s DC. And basically, we'd need to focus the fight on the right to brew. The right to distill going to be a harder fight, and not one we could win concurrently with this.

Yes, the fund is the AHA. Do a search, subscribe to Zymurgy magazine, and you are doing the most you can to help (ahdn get a pretty cool magazine, too).

 

[DocBrown]

I think I posted more details earlier in this thread, but the story is that there is some bad blood between Kade (or his family, not sure which) and one of the neighbors. Said neighbor called the cops and claimed Kade was making meth. The cops investigated (while Kade was not home) and saw the brewing equipment through the window. I'm not clear on whether the warrant was based on suspicion of possession of meth manufacturing equipment or on possession of an illegal moonshine still. From the bits that I've heard, I suspect it's the former and they just came up with the moonshining charge after the fact to justify everything, though again, I'm getting all my information 3rd or 4th hand.

 

[Atl_Brew]

What are Alabama's laws regarding the possession of home brew? I live in GA where brewing is legal, but go on hunting trips a few times a year in Alabama. I plan on bringing a stock of home brew on my next trip, could I get my friends at the camp in trouble?

 

[itsme6582]

Are there any updates on Kade's trial?

Also, would it be illegal to own a distiller? Technically, it would be a still. You can buy them from Amazon.

 

[klyph]

It's not illegal to own a distiller, but it is illegal to distill alcohol without a Federal license. I believe it's also illegal to own a still if they can prove it's only purpose was the illegal distillation of alcohol, but you'd have to ask a lawyer for the finer points.

 

[ImperialLover]

Alabama passed a law last year stating that homebrewing is not illegal unless you brew more than 220 gallons/year. Being in possession of "shine" in bama is just as illegal as producing it. so if anything in his A.O. was shine then he would be arrested. Gay yes, but that's how they are.

Making it illegal to distill or homebrew in the US is gay as aids. But to go even further, if you distill fermented grain in the US then the government can take any property associated with it. I.e. your house/land. Some believe that distillation is illegal in the US because it's dangerous if not done properly; however, the reality is that it's competition and untaxable. F*** the laws that limit people's ability to prosper! :rockin:

 

[ImperialLover]

It's not illegal to own a distillery. you can distill water all you want. it's when you pass fermented liquid through it that it's illegal.

 

[Jbloader]

Making it illegal to distill or homebrew in the US is gay as aids. But to go even further, if you distill fermented grain in the US then the government can take any property associated with it. I.e. your house/land. Some believe that distillation is illegal in the US because it's dangerous if not done properly; however, the reality is that it's competition and untaxable. F*** the laws that limit people's ability to prosper! :rockin:

Preach on brotha'!!!! :fro:

 

[blizzard]

is gay as aids.

really?

 

[rockfish42]

really?

That's some nice intolerance there, it'd be a shame if anything happened to it

 

[Hoodweisen]

what really burns me is the riflescopes in the bottom of the picture any time someone get busted with anything illegal if they have any weapons than you graduate to violent criminal its ridiculous a guy i know got busted selling pot and he had guns his guns made the front page of the paper like he was somesort of cartel member

 

[bh10]

That's some nice intolerance there, it'd be a shame if anything happened to it

Coming from the guy from San Fransico:fro:...just kidding.

 

[chucke]

Alabama passed a law last year stating that homebrewing is not illegal unless you brew more than 220 gallons/year. Being in possession of "shine" in bama is just as illegal as producing it. so if anything in his A.O. was shine then he would be arrested. Gay yes, but that's how they are.

There were efforts, but nothing passed.

Homebrewing is still verboten in AL.

There is hope for this year.

 

[ImperialLover]

Chucke, check out https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/alabama-homebrew-legalization-161066/index2.html

SB 153 was passed which allows home brewing up to *200* gallons per two person household, or 100 gallons per single person household per year.

They're still fighting the craft beer limitation that doesn't allow high gravity beer. They're stuck on 10% if I remember correctly.

Go to www.freethehops.org if you wanna get involved in that fight!

 

[ImperialLover]

I may be wrong.. and illegal.. LMAO. It says it passed the senate. I'll do more research in the morning.

 

[ImperialLover]

really?

Yeah, i'm not politically correct. I think "aggressive political correctness" is one of the biggest things wrong with our country.

@Rockfish,

I'm so tired of listening to the gay rights fights these days you could call me intolerant.

 

[chucke]

Chucke, check out https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/alabama-homebrew-legalization-161066/index2.html

SB 153 was passed which allows home brewing up to *200* gallons per two person household, or 100 gallons per single person household per year.

They're still fighting the craft beer limitation that doesn't allow high gravity beer. They're stuck on 10% if I remember correctly.

Go to www.freethehops.org if you wanna get involved in that fight!

It didn't pass the House and it didn't go to the Gov.

I wish it did...

 

[cricky101]

Yeah, i'm not politically correct. I think "aggressive political correctness" is one of the biggest things wrong with our country.

@Rockfish,

I'm so tired of listening to the gay rights fights these days you could call me intolerant.

Aggressive ignorance doesn't help, either.

 

[Airborneguy]

I'm not one for political correctness either, but intolerance is a different matter.

 

[rockfish42]

Yeah, i'm not politically correct. I think "aggressive political correctness" is one of the biggest things wrong with our country.

@Rockfish,

I'm so tired of listening to the gay rights fights these days you could call me intolerant.

F*** the laws that limit people's ability to prosper! :rockin:

I don't want to degenerate this into a flame war. I'd just like to point out that being offended at language that's essentially dehumanizing, isn't aggressive political correctness.
You have every right to speak your mind, just don't expect other people to stay silent.

 

[electric_beer]

Aggressive ignorance doesn't help, either.

+1

Dude, what the heck does gay and aids have to do with brewing?? I'm kinda surprised the mods didn't get to that comment. I feel like it was an unnecessary jab. Something you'd like to tell us?

 

[chucke]

Go to www.freethehops.org if you wanna get involved in that fight!

Free the Hops isn't involved in the home brewing fight.

They've worked on ABV issues and container sizes but nix for homebrewing.

 

[GuldTuborg]

+1

Dude, what the heck does gay and aids have to do with brewing?? I'm kinda surprised the mods didn't get to that comment. I feel like it was an unnecessary jab. Something you'd like to tell us?

I hate to take this in an off topic spiral, but I think the few of us here that have posted are speaking for and with with the majority when we say we don't really want racism, sexism, homophobia, and other such BS all over this forum. This is a great forum about beer (and other related drinks), and I think we'd all like to keep it family fun for all ages.