Aging in plastic - best worst option for aging Belgian Dark Strong Ale

SSBrew - 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
N

NoelMueller

Active Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
27
Reaction score
1
Location
Baltimore
Hey guys,

Total noob here, first post, etc. I'm currently brewing my 8th brew (extract), a Belgian Dark Strong, and trying to plot my next move with it.

I brewed this to try and switch things up and utilize the warmer temperatures in my apartment, after a few harsh IPAs plagued by runaway fermentation temps. Its about 74-78 degrees in my closet right now, with the A/C blasting in my apartment.

Here are the basic specs:

5 Gal batch
-----
6lbs Gold LME
3lbs Pilsen DME
1lb Light Candi Syrup
-----
1 lb Belgian - Cara 45L (steeping grains)
-----
1 oz. East Kent Goldings (60 min)
1 oz. Hersbrucker (30 min)
1 oz. Styrian Celeia (15 min)
-----
1.076 SG
-----
Yeast: WLP530 (Abbey Ale) w/small 1.040 starter made from 1/2 cup of Pilsen DME.

So, after 16 days in a 6.5 gal bucket, the beer is down to 1.015. The first 4 days were quite entertaining, and I ended up using a foam stopper instead of a blow-off tube due to the RIDICULOUS krausen size. The foam stopper shot out of the bucket like a bullet and startled the bejesus out of my girlfriend (who was in the closet at the time). During the first week, the aromas coming off the bucket were juicy fruit, bubble gum and slight banana. Now, the aromas are more cidery and vinous.

Anyway, I tasted the hydro sample and it was shockingly acidic, vinous and cidery.. somewhat worrisome, since I have no experience with Belgian beers. I then put the hydro sample in the refrigerator and tasted it again the next day. Tastes great! I can taste the pilsen malt, dark heavy notes of plum, cherry and raisins, and even a touch of noble hop flavor. Still somewhat vinous, but in a way that reminds me of a bottle of Westvleteren 12 I had a couple months ago.

The plan was to be able to start cracking open bottles of this in October at the earliest (3 months aging planned). My question is, am I better off aging it by:

- Leaving it on the yeast, in the 6.5 gal bucket and simply not messing with it for another month or two, then bottling.
- Racking it to my 5 gal vintage shop PET carboy for a couple months then bottling.
- Leaving it in the 6.5 gal bucket for 2 more weeks (total of 4) and let it age in bottles for 3 months?

I'm leaning towards the last one, because I don't trust plastic, and also would like to use my buckets and PET carboy to brew other beers in the meantime.

Basically, I want the beer to age until October, but i'm afraid of leaving it in a plastic bucket for that long.

Thanks!
-Noel
 
You can leave it in primary for months with no problem. It is also a perfectly acceptable option to leave it in primary for a few more weeks then age in bottles. You won't have any issue with the plastic.
 
Cool, I was leaning towards not messing with the secondary. So, if you had to characterize or quantify the difference between aging in primary (with an airlock) vs. aging in bottles (sealed) for a few months, for a Belgian beer like this, what would the differences be?
 
Plastic will be fine:

110558d1364226348-oxygen-permeability-5-pp-polypropylene-o2.jpg


More oxygen will bleed in through the rubber stopper!:eek:

'da Kid
 
I would go with option 3. I brewed a big triple and let it finish out its' ferment then bottled with the plan to let it age out while carbonating. One thing you need to consider is that bigger beers like these take longer to bottle condition. You can do this at the same time as it is aging if you bottle it.
 
2-3 months in your primary bucket would be fine, longer than that I would rack it off the yeast to prevent autolysis and funky off-flavors. You may also want to use the yeast for another batch.

The main issue with buckets is that the headspace CO2 flies off as soon as you open the lid, or even press on it, leaving your beer exposed to air and oxidation. Some oxidation makes some beers better, but for most it's an unwanted side effect.

If I want to keep the beer in the primary for extended time, I keep the lid on and don't press on it. I sneak a thin vinyl hose down the airlock grommet and suck some beer out to test gravity and taste, then airlock it again and let it be until ready to keg. I also often blow CO2 inside, from my tank, which I gather you don't have (yet).

Racking to a secondary usually exposes your beer to air and oxidation, as does any large headspace. So if you rack it, do it carefully not to suck air and let it bubble or splash into your destination vessel. The headspace in the secondary should be really small, maybe 2-3 inches down from the the rim of the neck.

So if you really want to age it for 2-3 months, rack it as long as you know it will fill your secondary up pretty much all the way, otherwise there's little point, and you may as well leave it in the bucket.

I've found that pressing the lid is a bad thing (I switched to primary buckets recently) as it pushes out the CO2 and sucks in air along the rim. That air may contain "bugs." I keep that rim area as clean as can be with Starsan-ned cling wrap for that reason.
 
So what differences could one expect between aging before bottling vs. aging in the bottle? (in the case of bigger Belgian beers, to be specific)
 
IMHO I would leave it in primary for 3 to 4 weeks and then bottle it. I moved away from using plastic buckets when I realized that the seals weren't very good and let in oxygen. The 5gal carboy would probably be fine but there isn't really a point in doing that IMHO. Just bottle is and let it age. It'll take a bit of time to carb up in the bottles anyways and probably will be really ready to drink at about 2 to 3 months. You could age it for much longer too.

As far as bulk aging before bottling well you would theoretically have more consistency since the beer is all aging together. You also would have more clarity since the more times you rack something the more sediment drops out. However, transferring increases oxygen exposure and potential for infection which is why most people don't secondary anymore.

As a side note on your fermentation. Your apt temps are still a bit high even for a Belgian strain Usually it's a good idea to start on the lower end of the spectrum and let it ramp up (generally a good rule of thumb for most ale fermentations). I believe that yeast is about 66-72F recommended temps. After a few days it's ok to let it get higher. You might consider investing in a circular tub, therm sticker, and a few ice packs to keep temps down. This would probably only run you about 20 bucks but can greatly increase the quality of your brew.
 
According to Brew LIke a Monk, all of the Trappist breweries ferment for 4-14 days, cold crash for 3-14 days, and then bottle. That's what I would do...
 
If you need your buckets and carboys for other beers, go ahead and bottle a short while after it's done. Give it a week or two past when it completes, to let as much drop out as it can, then bottle. Unless you're talking real long term, you likely won't notice too many differences between conditioning in a bottle versus in bulk.

I know many people state you can age practically forever in a primary, I would advise against it in a big beer. More alcohol means faster yeast death rate, which means higher risk for autolysis and problems carbonating in the bottle. There's no compelling reason to do it, so you may as well bottle.
 
I would do 1-2 more weeks in primary, go to the Better bottle for a month or two, then bottle. Sometimes Belgians take awhile to crunch through those last sugars. It could happen in secondary this way, instead of your bottle where it has a potential to become overcarbed.

Agree its probably not a Belgian Dark Strong, maybe a Dubbel colored Tripel. Not that its an issue at all, I bet it will be tasty. Try some D90 or D180 syrup next time in a Belgian Dark, 2-3 lbs total. Tasty!
 
cheezydemon3 said:
What is gonna make it "dark"???

The cara45 will add a little brown.
Click to expand...

Yeah.. again, super n00b here. Drafted up this recipe with almost zero outside input and BDSA seemed the closest style comparison based on the BrewersFriend calculator. The calculator had it coming out around 15 SRM, and the real thing looks like it could be 16 SRM.

Serious question: what would you call this beer? (BDSA was the only one that gave me solid style check marks in every category.. not that it means anything)
Here's the recipe: http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/140914/monk-jizz-8

Yes, I called it Monk Jizz.
 
Offhand, it looks like maybe a Dubbel to me. That category is BROAD.

Dark Candi sugar (which I like in my dubbels as well, but it isn't a requirement) would have gotten you where you wanted to be.
 
Is color the only area where i'm off style? If so, whats up with BrewersFriend's guidelines of 12-22 SRM for a BDSA?

I tried classifying it as a Dubble, but the gravity too high.. and I can't help the psychological effect of seeing all those little green check marks. Also, I totally had 1lb of dark belgian candi sugar that I decided not to include in this recipe.. d'oh.

So, a little too strong for a Dubble, and a little too light and weak for a BDSA?
 
HA!!! Caught me in the wrong too!!! Lol.

I didn't calculate your ABV......not used to looking at LME recipes......hmmmmm

OK. Belgian Trippel?
 
NoelMueller said:
Also, I totally had 1lb of dark belgian candi sugar that I decided not to include in this recipe.. d'oh.
Click to expand...

Boil up that lb of dark candi sugar in a tad of filtered water, cool, and add into your primary tonight. It will fire back up again and ferment those sugars. W'alla!
 
Edit:

Adding the dark belgian candi sugar post-primary fermentation sounds like a cool idea for future batches, but I would rather not push the ABV much above 8%, where it currently is.
 
OK, so a couple more questions about bottling this.

- How much do I need to fret about bottling this in standard 12 oz. bottles vs. champagne bottles? - Also, I have some healthy yeast in the fridge (WLP530 scraped off the top during the insane 6" high krausen period) - should I add that yeast during bottling with the priming sugar? or save it for another batch?
- What do you think about using the Dark Belgian Candi sugar I have left-over for priming instead of corn sugar?
 
Lol, Belgian Trippel it is ;)

Good for you not pushing the envelope! You are wiser than I was. I had to make a 12.5% ABV stout before I realized seldom you want to drink such a thing!
 
Any thoughts on those bottling related questions?

I'm interested in the whole 12 oz. bottle vs. Champagne bottle thing, and whether or not to re-up on the yeast. (although I have no doubt that the yeast in suspension is still very viable and would have no trouble carbonating the beer with no extra help)
 
There's no issue using regular longneck bottles, as long as you prime to 3 volumes or less.

Feel free to use candi sugar to prime, but be sure to calculate the gravity addition pretty accurately, so you know what kind of carbonation you're getting.
 
I know i'm verging on 'mind reader' territory, but with the amount of LME used, and the temps being consistently over 70, do you think I can consider it done at 1.012? I know this yeast is known for taking a long time to finish, as well as finishing very dry.. having said that, its already at 82% attenuation at 1.015.

Just trying to figure out how much to worry about bottle bombs if I bottle it at 1.012 or so, at 2 volumes.
 
IMHO opinion, it is not woth carbing with dark candi sugar. The fermentability can vary a little, and the amount used will not effect the flavor much.
 
Well...it is fine to use it in any beer, but it will make that beer a little belgian! ;)

Why not? Make a belgian IPA.
 
What sugar product, specifically, are we talking about here? I can see some of them working in place of treacle (very traditional English brewing adjunct), and some of them being very different in such a recipe. I'd imagine they're all good though.

The new thing seems to be using dark candi syrup in american stouts. I haven't tried it, but it's getting almost popular, and some people rave about the results.
 
Use corn sugar as candi sugar is a bit less predictable. Long necks would be fine as others have said as long as you don't carb above 3 volumes. 1.012 is probably where the beer will stand but wait a few days and see if it changes.
 

Similar threads

F
best option to age a stout
Replies
14
Views
1K
hottpeper13
H
BugAC
2023 Homebrew Geuze Project
Replies
0
Views
472
BugAC
BugAC
L
Unique "shaken baby" mead issue
Replies
5
Views
426
MightyMosin
MightyMosin
M
9.2% BGSA bottle conditioning inconsistency 3 months after fermentation began, 2 months after bottling
Replies
1
Views
90
JohnSand
JohnSand
DromJohn
Drom John Alvinne The Oak Melchior
Replies
2
Views
524
DromJohn
DromJohn
SSBrew 300

Latest posts

Back
Top