Aeration when brewing with distilled water

[mjs483]

So recently (last 3 or 4 batches) I switched from using tap water to using distilled water. I'm brewing with extract and in Jamil's "Brewing Classic Styles" he says that you can "brew with confidence" using distilled water for extract based beers. The reason being that the extract already has all of the minerals and good stuff that good brewing water should have.

My results have been less than perfect. Most of the brews have turned out too sweet (even after substituting some corn sugar for a portion of the malt extract). I just couldn't figure out what was going wrong. I've been making yeast starters for all of my brews and using the "shake the hell out of the carboy" method for aeration.

Then finally last night it dawned on me. Distilled water probably has much less dissolved oxygen than tap water (maybe distilled has none). My guess is that using 100% distilled water probably drastically increased my need for a more sophisticated aeration method than shaking.

Does this theory sound correct to any of you guys?

I'm thinking maybe I should just go back to tap water or maybe do my extract boil with distilled and then top off the fermenter with tap water...

 

[CreeDakota]

I dont know the amount of O2 in distilled water. Why do your feel compelled to use it in the first place? Are you trying to make a Pilzen lager style with very low mineral water?

 

[cheezydemon3]

Shaking the hell out of the carboy will provide more than enough o2.

IMHO that is definitely NOT it.

Crystal provides sweetness, sugar provides cidery notes, pale DME does not provide any sweetness in my book.

Some yeasts yeild "drier" beers.

 

[ChshreCat]

Distilled water should aerate normally. I use bottled spring water for my top-up water and I pour half in, then cap the jug and shake the crap outta it before pouring the rest in. I get very short lag times and good healthy ferments.

It could be the extract you're using. Some brands have more unfermentables than others and can finish a little high and taste sweeter.

 

[mjs483]

CreeDakota: The reason I was using distilled was just because from what I read in Brewing Classic Styles, it seemed like the most correct thing to do since all of the minerals I need are already present and concentrated in the extract. I figured if it could help me brew better beer I'd give it a shot...

 

[Boondoggie]

You're boiling all the oxygen out of the water either way, aren't you?

 

[Gremlyn]

Definitely not the water. Where are you getting your recipes? How has your attenuation been?

 

[dstar26t]

The reason being that the extract already has all of the minerals and good stuff that good brewing water should have.

Did you check with the maltster to see what water they use?

 

[mjs483]

Grem: Lately I've been doing recipes from Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles. My attenuation seems to never quite hit the FG of the recipe. Always about 2 - 4 points above what it should be. I normally use Alexanders or Muntons light/pale extract from a local shop that has a pretty high turnover rate. Boil volume is usually about 3 gallons and I usually add half of my extract at the end of the boil.

A while back I did a dry stout using a mini mash and that one seemed to attenuate properly and finished nice and dry. I'm thinking I should do another mini mash recipe and see if I have better results again...

 

[fretsforlife]

+1 to boondoggie. The boiling process purges most all the O2 from the water anyway. I'd think you need to aerate the distilled just as much as the tap water in any case.

 

[Gremlyn]

Grem: Lately I've been doing recipes from Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles. My attenuation seems to never quite hit the FG of the recipe. Always about 2 - 4 points above what it should be. I normally use Alexanders or Muntons light/pale extract from a local shop that has a pretty high turnover rate. Boil volume is usually about 3 gallons and I usually add half of my extract at the end of the boil.

A while back I did a dry stout using a mini mash and that one seemed to attenuate properly and finished nice and dry. I'm thinking I should do another mini mash recipe and see if I have better results again...

Can you get different brand extract? Are you using liquid or dry right now? The couple of liquid kits I did had bad attenuation, I've had better luck with dry extract.

 

[mjs483]

I've been using liquid. But I think I'll try dry on my next brew. Did a little bit of research and it seems like Briess Golden Light (and potentially other Briess products) is one of the more highly fermentable DME's out there.

 

[mjs483]

I've been using liquid. But I think I'll try dry on my next brew. Did a little bit of research and it seems like Briess Golden Light (and potentially other Briess products) is one of the more highly fermentable DME's out there.

Also to those mentioning that boiling releases all of the dissolved oxygen in the water, I'm doing a partial boil so I was referring to the top off water, not the post boil wort. I understand that the post boil wort has no dissolved oxygen. My thought process was if I top off with distilled water (which is water that is boiled then condensed) I likely had top off water with 0% dissolved oxygen. Versus if I top off with tap water, I'd bet that tap water has some percentage of dissolved oxygen (certainly more than pure distilled). Again I'm talking about top off water that has not been boiled.

But, I've now been convinced that the water is not my issue since you all grain guys do a full volume boil and use the shake the crap outta the carboy method, so you're starting with 0% dissolved oxygen too...

 

[ajf]

I see you are using liquid yeasts and making a starter.
Do you aerate the starter really well? If not, the starter won't produce an adequate yeast cell count, you will be under-pitching, and your brew will probably under-attenuate.
In support of this, check out http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices and look at the first bar graph.

I have noticed that making a starter on a stir plate invariably results in better attenuation than if the starter was just shaken

-a.

P.S. I never use the "shake the crap outa the carboy method" because I'm careful not to put crap into the carboy in the first place. I do use O2 injection though an aeration stone

 

[mjs483]

Hey thanks for the link, good stuff. It's possible my starters have not been aerated enough. I usually give them a decent shake but I don't go crazy with it. The good news is that last week I built a stir plate so my next starter will be stirred.

You never put crap in your carboy in the first place? Maybe that's my problem

 

[Scimmia]

Grem: Lately I've been doing recipes from Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles. My attenuation seems to never quite hit the FG of the recipe. Always about 2 - 4 points above what it should be. I normally use Alexanders or Muntons light/pale extract from a local shop that has a pretty high turnover rate. Boil volume is usually about 3 gallons and I usually add half of my extract at the end of the boil.

A while back I did a dry stout using a mini mash and that one seemed to attenuate properly and finished nice and dry. I'm thinking I should do another mini mash recipe and see if I have better results again...

Brittish extracts will generally attenuate less than US extracts. This is one of the big advantages to doing your own mash, you can control how fermentable the wort is.

 

[SumnerH]

Brittish extracts will generally attenuate less than US extracts. This is one of the big advantages to doing your own mash, you can control how fermentable the wort is.

Munton's is highly fermentable, right up there with Breiss or anything else.

 

[SC_Ryan]

Did you have a high sulfate to chloride ratio in your previous brewing water?

 

[mjs483]

I'm not sure. I tried to read my water report a while back but got a little confused when I couldn't find exactly the parameters I was looking for. My water does tend to have a slight chlorine smell to it sometimes.

 

[Gremlyn]

I'm not sure. I tried to read my water report a while back but got a little confused when I couldn't find exactly the parameters I was looking for. My water does tend to have a slight chlorine smell to it sometimes.

If you post a link to the report, we can hel decipher it for you. If you get a chlorine smell from your water, I hope you use campden tablets!

 

[Bobby_M]

Your tap water may have been high in sulfates and when you switched to distilled, you may have noticed a dulling of the bitterness in the finished beer due to the lowered sulfates. You can also add your top up water to your sanitized fermenter before the wort and shake the crap out of that. With all the extra headspace, you'll get the water up to 8ppm of oxygen easily.

 

[mjs483]

I haven't been using campden tablets when I use tap water (although lately I've been using distilled or bottled water). Are campden tablets necessary for extract brewing? My water report can be found here:
http://www.fcwa.org/water/imar_files/2009/Griffith%20Treatment%20Plant%20Finished%20Water%202009.pdf