advice on sweetness of brew

[jkirky]

Hi all...

I am quite new to brewing... I have put down a few which have turned out great but not real sure on my last mix...

My recipe was;

1.7kg coopers tradtional draught
1.5 kg light wheat malt (coopers)
500gm dextrose
15gm cascade hops (20 min boil)
15gm cascade hops (10 min boil)
15gm amarillo hops (dry on 5th day fermenting in primary)
safale us-05 dry pitched yeast
fermenting temp approx 18-20 degrees
Batch size 21 litres
OG - 1058
FG-????

This brew has been fermenting for 12 days at constant temp. The current gravity is 1016 (still slowly bubbling). I am not sure what to expect for final gravity... but on tasting the mix whilst doing hydrometer reading the beer tastes REALLY sweet. I realise their may still be unfermented sugers which will sweeten it, but i think the brew is pretty close to final gravity.

The flavour is good but way to sweet to really make this drinkable.

Should i just wait, bottle once FG is reached and see what its like after conditioning, or are there methods to increase bitterness late in the fermentation phase.. perhaps i should increase the batch size to 23 litres?

I guess you guys get heaps of noob questions like this but i would greatly appreciate any feedback...

Cheers!

 

[Yooper]

It probably is very near FG, so I don't imagine the sweetness will go away.

One of the things that is a key to a good beer is balance. Too many bittering hops, and the beer will be too bitter. Not enough hops, and the beer will be sweet. Malt is sweet, of course, and the hops are there to counteract that sweetness.

In your recipe, you've got some "late" hops, which give flavor and aroma to the beer, and I assume that your cooper's is prehopped so that you've got the bittering hops in there. With the wheat malt added, though, without any additional bittering hops, you're definitely lacking the bitter hops. Does the Coopers can say how many IBUs it provides?

I've never used prehopped extract, so I don't know how much bittering they have. I recommend not using prehopped extract, and adding your own hops so you know exactly how many IBUs (International Bittering Units) you have so you can acheive a better balance.

 

[voegeli51]

You could try leaving in for another week and dry hopping it. Might help to balance out the sweetness.

 

[brian_g]

First, I'd say let it finish before making a judgment. I think simpler, fermentable sugars tend to clash more with the hops, then the unfermentable sugars. Ever tasted a homebrew just after the priming sugar is added or very early in the bottle conditioning process? I think there's a definite difference between that kind of sweetness and a very malty beer with a lot of unfermentables. I'm not sure what your tasting, but this has been my observation.

To answer you question, you could try boiling hops water with a little malt extract and add it to the fermentor. You'll have to wait until it finishes fermenting. Honestly, I'd recommend leaving it alone. I really have found that it's better not to try to fix a batch. I've tried "fixing" problems with some of my earlier batches. I think most of the time it would have come out better if I just left it alone. The problem with trying to "fix" things in the middle, is that you can end up "fixing" something that wasn't really a problem to begin with and making it worse. The other problem is that suppose you make a bunch of changes in the middle of the process and as luck has it, it's the best beer ever. How are you going to make it again?

 

[brian_g]

One more thing. If your new to brewing, and even with some experience, it's very difficult to taste the beer at this stage of the process and decide how good it's going to be. Beer never tastes right in the fermentor. It's warm, flat, young, and has a lot of yeast floating in it.

 

[rsmith179]

Yoop is spot on. I only see 20 minute, 10 minute, and dry hopping additions to this beer. It's going to be sweet because the bittering of the hops is not present as hops were not included in the full 60 minute boil. As she said, it's all about balance. The hop additions you have would have really only added flavor and aroma of the hops, not bitterness.

In the future, make sure to include some bittering hops for the full 60 minute boil to ensure a balance between the sweetness of the malt and the bitterness of the hops.

 

[beerkrump]

+1 on leaving it alone
Your beer probably needs to sit in the fermenter another two weeks and then bottle condition for another 3 before its even ready to drink. A lot can happen to flavors between now and then.

+1 on tasting beer throughout the process
By tasting now and remembering what the flavors are, you can use that info when compared to the end product and other batches.

-1 on dry hopping
That'll add more aroma, hops need to be boiled to isomerize the alpha acids to add bitterness.

Another thing about the hops you added, they have very floral aromas and that may add to the perception of sweetness.

 

[brian_g]

Yoop is spot on. I only see 20 minute, 10 minute, and dry hopping additions to this beer. It's going to be sweet because the bittering of the hops is not present as hops were not included in the full 60 minute boil. As she said, it's all about balance. The hop additions you have would have really only added flavor and aroma of the hops, not bitterness.

In the future, make sure to include some bittering hops for the full 60 minute boil to ensure a balance between the sweetness of the malt and the bitterness of the hops.

I don't know if you saw this, but he used a can of Cooper's pre-hopped malt. Cooper's pre-hopped kits have enough hops for a full batch, but you have to add additional fermentables which is why he added the wheat malt and the dextrose.

I've never tried the Draught, but I'm guessing it's not meant to be a very hoppy beer. I'd say if your going to boil hops for 60 min, to skip the pre-hopped can altogether. Find a recipe, either online or in a book and follow it.

 

[bikeboy389]

In my experience, a flat beer always tastes much sweeter than the same one once it's carbed. So go ahead and bottle (or keg) and see how it comes out.

 

[zacster]

I bottled a lager that was too sweet to my taste at bottling time. I figured it would still be good enough. I was really disappointed as I wanted this one to be crisp as a lager should be, and not sweet. I had followed most of the advice about doing a lager too, cold pitched a large starter, kept temps down to around 50 during primary, lagered at 35 or so...

This turned out to be my best beer ever. Everyone that's tried it has wanted a few sample bottles to take home. There isn't the least bit of sweetness in it. When it gets cold again I'm making another batch, maybe even 2.

 

[malkore]

I don't know if you saw this, but he used a can of Cooper's pre-hopped malt. Cooper's pre-hopped kits have enough hops for a full batch, but you have to add additional fermentables which is why he added the wheat malt and the dextrose.

I've never tried the Draught, but I'm guessing it's not meant to be a very hoppy beer. I'd say if your going to boil hops for 60 min, to skip the pre-hopped can altogether. Find a recipe, either online or in a book and follow it.

Yes, but he added quite a bit of wheat malt, which is going to add sweetness back, and that's what unbalanced the pre-hopped extract.

 

[Yooper]

Yes, but he added quite a bit of wheat malt, which is going to add sweetness back, and that's what unbalanced the pre-hopped extract.

Yes. When you add more malt, you need to add more hops, generally speaking, to keep it in balance. Especially since that canned kit is low in IBUs anyway, some bittering hops should have been added to balance the sweetness of the malt.

Prehopped kits can be convenient, but are actually more difficult to use when you formulate your own recipe. You just don't know what's already in there.

 

[jkirky]

Thanks everyone for the advice provided.

I was given this recipe by my local home brew shop, however in discussion with him we modified very slightly. My deviation from the recipe was the reduction of batch size to 21 litres (rather than 23l) and a DRY hop of amarillo. The amarillo was purely to provide more aroma and perhaps a hint more flavour.

I took another hydrometer reading today and the beer is developing some hints of bitterness which i am pleased about. I got my wife to taste it and she believed the brew was more on the bitter side than sweet. She actually started complaining about the bitter aftertaste. I think my own taste perceptions are being thrown by the floral characteristics of the hops + i have a fairly high tolerence for high bitter beers, and i guess their are still some sugers to be fermented (The air-lock is still bubbling away every 30 seconds or so, and current gravity is 1016). What would you guys expect the FINAL gravity to be? I was thinking 1014?

I dont nessesarily want this beer to be a hophead/bitter brew, but rather an enjoyable drop that most average beer drinkers would appreciate.

I am thinking of just leaving it some time in the primary and bottling it as is.

I guess if the beer isnt quite to my liking in the finish, at least i will have some direction of where and how to improve my future brews. Anyways, i cant think of anytime or any beer which i simply WONT drink. Im just not that fussy in the end.

 

[jkirky]

Yes, but he added quite a bit of wheat malt, which is going to add sweetness back, and that's what unbalanced the pre-hopped extract.

I see where your coming from, but with this particular kit, it recommends the addition of 1.5kg malt extract on the can. I would imagine that they would have pre-hopped accordingly to match their recomendations (at least this is what i thought...)

I have found the following form their website...

"Thomas Cooper's Premium Selection Traditional Draught - An outstanding beer using a hop/malt combination set to delight the most discerning draught lovers, palate cleansing freshness to the last glass.

Intended to be mixed with 1.5kg Thomas Coopers Light Malt Extract and made up to 23 litres.

Weight - 1.7kg, Colour - 130EBC, Bitterness - 420IBU"

What are your thoughts on my reduction to 21 litres?

 

[passedpawn]

1) the beer, after carbonation, will not be so sweet.

2) boil 1 qt. of water with 1oz of hops. Boil for 1 hour. Add to fermenter.

 

[Yooper]

I see where your coming from, but with this particular kit, it recommends the addition of 1.5kg malt extract on the can. I would imagine that they would have pre-hopped accordingly to match their recomendations (at least this is what i thought...)

I have found the following form their website...

"Thomas Cooper's Premium Selection Traditional Draught - An outstanding beer using a hop/malt combination set to delight the most discerning draught lovers, palate cleansing freshness to the last glass.

Intended to be mixed with 1.5kg Thomas Coopers Light Malt Extract and made up to 23 litres.

Weight - 1.7kg, Colour - 130EBC, Bitterness - 420IBU"

What are your thoughts on my reduction to 21 litres?

Well, 42 IBUs is probably plenty for that batch. If that's what it means.

Corn sugar doesn't add much in the way of body, or flavor, so it's just a way to cheaply boost fermentables. Adding more extract, though, adds body and some malt flavor that can be perceived as sweetness.

For the next time, I'd go with unhopped extract and add my own hops, to get the right balance.

 

[brian_g]

I've made a number of these kits. A can of pre-hopped extract and a can of unhoped extract is pretty standard. The bitterness is going to be balanced for the beer style. You don't really need to be adding hops to the kits. I think the kits are pretty well balanced. If you don't like the beer style, you can try other recipes. But I don't think you did anything out of whack that would make it too sweet. I usually make mine as 5 gallon batches instead of 6.

How many batches have you brewed? I'm guessing that based on your questions, you may not have the experience to know what a beer normally taste like out of the fermentor. The airlock is still bubbling, the yeasts are still eating some of the sugars. I personally think that simple sugars stand out like a sore thumb in beer. Having a beer that is malty isn't the same as having a beer that's sugary. The sugary sweet should go away, but the malty sweet will stay. (I don't know if that makes sence).


If, as you said, your not too picky about your beer, then leave it alone, and learn from your experience. The learning doesn't really end until the beer has sat in the bottles for a few months (if there's any left at that point).