Advice on Fixing Sour/Acidic Cider

[NateBodnar]

I just took a 5 gallon batch off primary and it is extremely sour. Batch is completely fermented out dry 0.998 with S04 yeast. Has a very yellow color compared to my previous batches. See picture attached.

I have done some research on reasoning, and found that it was probably the juice had a high acidity. I did try a new farms juice for this batch. I am ordering a ph test kit tonight so it doesn’t happen again.

Questions:

1: Any suggestions to fix the acidity after fermentation? I was thinking about adding back more basic juice and fermenting out the new juice, essentially diluting the acidity. Would this work? Any other suggestions? I read that one person added baking soda but this kind of seems absurd to me.

2: Is there any chance that this is an infection of some sort instead of just bad juice? Don’t want to start a new batch with out sourcing the infection problem if it is. Everything is washed, soaked in PBW and then Star San like normal.

Thanks for the help!View attachment 595285

 

[RPh_Guy]

it was probably the juice had a high acidity. I did try a new farms juice for this batch. I am ordering a ph test kit tonight so it doesn’t happen again.

Yes, the juice had a high acidity. Acidity is best determined not by pH, but rather by titratable acidity (TA).
I'm not sure what a "pH test kit" is, so make sure you understand what you're measuring

It is not an infection. Lactic Acid Bacteria (LAB) do not make cider sour.

You have options for reducing the acidity:
1. Sweetening the cider. This simply balances the acidic taste. Any method of sweetening will help.
2. Malolactic fermentation (MLF). LAB transform the malic acid into lactic acid, which results in a decreased sour taste. The process can take some time.
3. Use of potassium carbonate/bicarbonate can precipitate some of the acid. Cold crashing recommended.
4. Blending with low acid juice/cider will help.
5 (Experimental). Some calcium chloride might help reduce the perceived acidity.

I do not think baking soda would help.

Cheers

 

[NateBodnar]

Yes, the juice had a high acidity. Acidity is best determined not by pH, but rather by titratable acidity (TA).
I'm not sure what a "pH test kit" is, so make sure you understand what you're measuring

Good to know! I didn’t get a chance to look up exactly what I needed to measure before posting this. I will start reading more in TA. Thanks for the confirmation that the acid is the issue!

 

[ten80]

I do not think baking soda would help.

AGREED! Any of those options except the baking soda! The sodium will impart.... a very sodium-y flavor. Try dissolving some baking soda in some lightly acidified water and see how it tastes... blegh!

Buffering the acid with potassium carbonate or potassium bicarbonate can be done, but do a bench-test with a small amount of juice and precisely measured amounts of K2CO3 or KHCO3. The potassium can impart a mineral-y flavor at high concentrations. Potassium bicarbonate has a higher buffering capacity and would result in less contribution of potassium.

It is not an infection. Lactic Acid Bacteria (LAB) do not make cider sour.

To clarify, LAB ferment carbohydrates into lactic acid and could theoretically ferment the sugars in the juice into lactic acid if yeast were absent or sluggish. In the presence of yeast, the LAB will not dominate and may just ferment malic acid to lactic.

Acetobacter, however, will ferment alcohol into acetic acid in the presence of oxygen and that will certainly turn a cider harshly acidic.

 

[NateBodnar]

Acetobacter, however, will ferment alcohol into acetic acid in the presence of oxygen and that will certainly turn a cider harshly acidic.

Was able to taste the cider again yesterday. Mellowed our a bit after sitting in the fridge for an extra few days, still sour but better. I would assume that if it was this that acidic taste wouldn’t have mellowed. Any thoughts?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Were you tasting it right after a quick fermentation?
Acetaldehyde is a byproduct of fermentation and lends a harsh sour taste until the yeast "clean it up".

 

[Corey Fish]

Yeah, I agree with Rph Guy. Ciders are like wine-- not going to taste great right after fermentation. Leave it sit in secondary for a month and I'll bet you a dollar it tastes better than it does now.

 

[Justwingnit]

RPH_Guy and Corey Fish nailed it NateBodnar let it sit in secondary. Every time I have had somthing that tasted good right of primary has turned out excellent after a month or six of just sitting around. If after a month or two you will know what your looking at, may have to back flavor it with unfermentables like cristal light. You have a lot of options in a month or six.

 

[NateBodnar]

Were you tasting it right after a quick fermentation?
Acetaldehyde is a byproduct of fermentation and lends a harsh sour taste until the yeast "clean it up".

It was a two week fermentation which was my first time using S04. In my limited number of batches before this, nothing tasted sour like this around the same length of fermentation. Maybe it’s the yeast type?

 

[NateBodnar]

RPH_Guy and Corey Fish nailed it NateBodnar let it sit in secondary. Every time I have had somthing that tasted good right of primary has turned out excellent after a month or six of just sitting around. If after a month or two you will know what your looking at, may have to back flavor it with unfermentables like cristal light. You have a lot of options in a month or six.

Sounds good! Figured it would get better with some age, I’ll let you guys know in a month or two!

 

[ten80]

It was a two week fermentation which was my first time using S04. In my limited number of batches before this, nothing tasted sour like this around the same length of fermentation. Maybe it’s the yeast type?

I've done two ciders with S-04 and both turned out very "sharp" in flavor despite ending around 1.003-4. I'm not sure the "sharpness" was due to high acidity or maybe a lack of esters and fermentation byproducts that would lend some character and perceived sweetness.