Advice on creating a hoppy IPA recipe

[Bokdem]

I would like to achieve a hoppy tasting and smelling IPA. To compare, I'd like to achieve what brewery 'De Molen' creates with their 'Vuur & Vlam' IPA. I don't assume you guys know this beer since it's a Dutch brewer, they do export most of their beers though. On the label they describe the used hops and malts. The malts are pils and caramel, as commonly used in IPA's. For bittering there's only Cascade in the boil. Dryhopping: Amarillo, Columbus, Chinook, Citra. Label can be seen here.
Ratebeer

I'm about to brew 4.5 gallon batch and got the following hops available: Cascade, Simcoe, Citra.

9.2lbs (82%) Pale Ale Malt, 1lb (9%) Caramunich T2, 1lb (9%) Oat-flakes. OG 1060

Bittering:
It'd be great if you guys could help me with the hop schedule. I'd like to achieve not too much bitterness, just decent amount in the background. Should I not do a 60min addition of Cascade and instead achieve the bitterness from late additions perhaps?

Hoppy taste/aroma:
10 minute boil additions, flameout, dryhop, every suggestion is welcome. As long as I will achieve this kind of hoppiness.

I'm open to any suggestions you guys provide me with. I hope it's kind of clear to you all what I'm trying to achieve.

thanks in advance!!

 

[xpops]

I would like to achieve a hoppy tasting and smelling IPA. To compare, I'd like to achieve what brewery 'De Molen' creates with their 'Vuur & Vlam' IPA. I don't assume you guys know this beer since it's a Dutch brewer, they do export most of their beers though. On the label they describe the used hops and malts. The malts are pils and caramel, as commonly used in IPA's. For bittering there's only Cascade in the boil. Dryhopping: Amarillo, Columbus, Chinook, Citra. Label can be seen here.
Ratebeer

I'm about to brew 4.5 gallon batch and got the following hops available: Cascade, Simcoe, Citra.

82% Pale Ale Malt, 9% Caramunich T2, 9% Oat-flakes.

Bittering:
It'd be great if you guys could help me with the hop schedule. I'd like to achieve not too much bitterness, just decent amount in the background. Should I not do a 60min addition of Cascade and instead achieve the bitterness from late additions perhaps?

Hoppy taste/aroma:
10 minute boil additions, flameout, dryhop, every suggestion is welcome. As long as I will achieve this kind of hoppiness.

I'm open to any suggestions you guys provide me with. I hope it's kind of clear to you all what I'm trying to achieve.

thanks in advance!!

for bittering, it's best to use a tool like beersmith or something similar online, to obtain an accurate IBU level based on the AAU% of your hops you have on hand. There are ways to calculate manually....but it's lengthy. For balanced IBU, we need to know qty of grains as well, as to know your OG. you probably want to have and BU:GU of approximately .80. Apparently first wort hopping rather than waiting until the 60min boil can smooth out the bitterness as well. I typically FWH rather than wait until 60min boil, but not 100% it really "smooths" it out...

For the "hoppiness" you're looking for, i assume you're looking for aroma since you dont want overly bitter? lots of flameout and dry hopping. Whirlpool additions around 165-170 degrees for 15 mins or so post boil, can also really help with that aroma hit!

cheers,

 

[Redlantern]

based on your hop availability -

My preference would be to lead with Simcoe. Don't do a 60 min charge, but start at 20. for 4.5 gallon, an ounce at 20 will give you a very nice start.

 

[mredge73]

The description sounds like a California West Coast IPA. Start by searching recipes in this category, you will find lots of recipe and opinions on west coast IPAs on this forum.
I would try to minimize the hoppy taste and maximize the hoppy aroma.
A 10-20 minute cascade addition adds a grapefruit taste that I personally don't like.
Lower the caramel additions, west coast IPAs use little caramel malts because they are so hop forward.

On the 60 minute boil, if you are doing a light session IPA aim for around 40ibu. For an average IPA I would go a little higher at 60ibu. DIPA you can go all out to 80+.
Use a recipe calculator to get the right amounts needed based off of your wort profile and hop AA%. Use the Simcoe that you have available as your bitter charge.

I would put all the rest of your 'C' hops at flame out and dry. I use about 2oz at flameout and 4-6oz for dry hopping. Cascade works great as a dry hop, I haven't used Citra much.

 

[Bokdem]

for bittering, it's best to use a tool like beersmith or something similar online, to obtain an accurate IBU level based on the AAU% of your hops you have on hand. There are ways to calculate manually....but it's lengthy. For balanced IBU, we need to know qty of grains as well, as to know your OG. you probably want to have and BU:GU of approximately .80. Apparently first wort hopping rather than waiting until the 60min boil can smooth out the bitterness as well. I typically FWH rather than wait until 60min boil, but not 100% it really "smooths" it out...

For the "hoppiness" you're looking for, i assume you're looking for aroma since you dont want overly bitter? lots of flameout and dry hopping. Whirlpool additions around 165-170 degrees for 15 mins or so post boil, can also really help with that aroma hit!

cheers,

I've updated the amounts of grain being used to reach the OG of 1060.

Since I'm still kind of new to brewing, I've still got a few questions.
1) To reach the BU:GU ratio of .80 I'd be aiming for a IBU of 48? (48/60=0.8)
2) Instead of adding the bittering hop @60min, add the hops at FWH? (Not 100%? 80%@FWH / 20%@60min?)

Thanks for this input!!

 

[Bokdem]

The description sounds like a California West Coast IPA. Start by searching recipes in this category, you will find lots of recipe and opinions on west coast IPAs on this forum.
I would try to minimize the hoppy taste and maximize the hoppy aroma.
A 10-20 minute cascade addition adds a grapefruit taste that I personally don't like.
Lower the caramel additions, west coast IPAs use little caramel malts because they are so hop forward.

On the 60 minute boil, if you are doing a light session IPA aim for around 40ibu. For an average IPA I would go a little higher at 60ibu. DIPA you can go all out to 80+.
Use a recipe calculator to get the right amounts needed based off of your wort profile and hop AA%. Use the Simcoe that you have available as your bitter charge.

I would put all the rest of your 'C' hops at flame out and dry. I use about 2oz at flameout and 4-6oz for dry hopping. Cascade works great as a dry hop, I haven't used Citra much.

To what percent would you recommend me to bring the caramel malts to?
I'm not aiming to brew a session/double, just an average. When I bring the IBU up to 60 in this beer, the BU:GU ratio will be 1.0 instead of the 0.8 recommended. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I will use the Simcoe as the 'lead' hop, this was also mentioned before so I trust on that. I think I will do 1oz Cascade, 1oz Citra at flameout. 2-3oz Cascade, 2-3oz Citra dry hop. Anyone reccomends met to add the dry hop at the peak of krausen or 4 days before bottling?

 

[xpops]

I've updated the amounts of grain being used to reach the OG of 1060.

Since I'm still kind of new to brewing, I've still got a few questions.
1) To reach the BU:GU ratio of .80 I'd be aiming for a IBU of 48? (48/60=0.8)
2) Instead of adding the bittering hop @60min, add the hops at FWH? (Not 100%? 80%@FWH / 20%@60min?)

Thanks for this input!!

with that BU:GU ratio you'd be on high end of session and low end of "traditional" IPA. id say that's a good place to be, with a little less crystal (maybe 8oz instead of 1lb).

i dont split up my initial bittering charge between FWH and 60min boil. hops oil only "works" at certain temps, so the IBU charge you get wont vary much, it's just supposed to "round out" the bitterness to become a "smoother" bitter...i just put my initial amount in hopsack and toss into kettle as i drain MLT.

hope that helps!

 

[xpops]

To what percent would you recommend me to bring the caramel malts to?
I'm not aiming to brew a session/double, just an average. When I bring the IBU up to 60 in this beer, the BU:GU ratio will be 1.0 instead of the 0.8 recommended. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I will use the Simcoe as the 'lead' hop, this was also mentioned before so I trust on that. I think I will do 1oz Cascade, 1oz Citra at flameout. 2-3oz Cascade, 2-3oz Citra dry hop. Anyone reccomends met to add the dry hop at the peak of krausen or 4 days before bottling?

Peak of krausen is your typical NEIPA, and they still typically call for a second dryhop post fermentation. I would just wait until fermentation is done, toss them in for 5-7 days, then package!

not sure how it makes sense...but i tend to get better aroma if i put in my dryhops and DONT take the airlock out every day to smell the delicious hops, lol....set them and forget them, until packaging day!

cheers,

 

[Bokdem]

Peak of krausen is your typical NEIPA, and they still typically call for a second dryhop post fermentation. I would just wait until fermentation is done, toss them in for 5-7 days, then package!

not sure how it makes sense...but i tend to get better aroma if i put in my dryhops and DONT take the airlock out every day to smell the delicious hops, lol....set them and forget them, until packaging day!

cheers,

I will toss in the dryhop 5 days before packaging. I will only open the fermentation bucket to add in the dryhop, not more to prevent oxidation.

The misunderstanding of splitting the the FWH and 60min addition came from what you said: ' I typically FWH rather than wait until 60min boil, but not 100% it really "smooths" it out...' I'm not sure what you meant with this.

Thanks for this great info, learned a lot about creating a recipe today. Now I can't wait to brew this saturday!!! :rockin:

 

[xpops]

sorry! i meant "i'm not 100% sure it actually smooths out the bitterness..."! i must have been typing faster than i was thinking

good luck, sounds like you have a decent beer on the horizon - keep us posted!

cheers,

 

[Bokdem]

sorry! i meant "i'm not 100% sure it actually smooths out the bitterness..."! i must have been typing faster than i was thinking

good luck, sounds like you have a decent beer on the horizon - keep us posted!

cheers,

Hahaha!!
Thanks again and I will update

 

[mmahu]

Hahaha!!
Thanks again and I will update

DeMolen are quite possibly one of my favourites. Their beers are awesome and never boring.

Vuur&Vlam is one of my favourite. Take note that it is a variety of IPA. It is not an American ( dry ) IPA by any means. The colour is around 20-22 EBC, plenty of mouthfeel, good retention, a tad hazy, but highly drinkable at the same time.

I believe I can sense Amarillo in this particular one, more than the other hops.

 

[mredge73]

Sounds like it has a little wheat in it, wheat is likely responsible for the haze. Wheat will give it a bit more mouth feel while the oats will give it creamyness.
You still need to drop down the crystal some, cut it in half or leave it out.