Advice on choosing a PID for MASH

[enrico]

I currently have a rex c-100 (rex-c100FK02) which i'm using with a k type temperature sensor and SSR-40DA.

I have noticed the temperature readings are off a few degrees and I believe its not suitable due to it's low accuracy.

Therefore I have decided to purchase another pid to be used with a rtd pt100 sensor.

Could you advice me which of these would be easy to setup and provide accurate readings -

ITC-100RH INKBIRD http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AC-220V-Dual-PID-ITC-100RH-INKBIRD-Digital-Temperature-Control-Controller-/331366813763?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item4d27005043
ITC-100VH INKBIRD http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AC-220V-Dual-PID-ITC-100RH-INKBIRD-Digital-Temperature-Control-Controller-/331366813763?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item4d27005043
Mypin TD4-SNR http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-PID-Temperature-Controller-Thermocouple-TD4-SNR-Solid-state-relay-SSR-25-DA/110880595387?rt=nc&_soffid=5010781100&_soffType=OrderSubTotalOffer&_trksid=p5731.m3795

 

[WScottCross]

I've used the TD4 with good results. The TD4 has manual mode so you can set the duty cycle for boil control if needed. If you're only using it for mash temp control, you can use the TA4, which may be slightly cheaper.

 

[paul_111]

I'm using auberins.com's SYL-2352 in my eBIAB system. So far, so good. They have several models to suit different set-ups.

 

[augiedoggy]

3 td4s in my setup here but I used a ta series without manual mode in the past and besides that (which you would never use for your application) its the same...
mypin pids can be found for as little as $25 with free shipping...

The auber will cost you over $50 with shipping.. Unless you buy this auberins clone which is identical in function but only $25 with free shipping. http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...ature-Controller-XMT612/209587_598878204.html Again you wont get auberins support to answer your questions if you cant figure out the instructions.

If you buy the mypin you can come here for questions and support ,
If you buy the auber you can go to auberins but most seem to come here for answers anyway so...

I would steer clear from the inkbird in this case unless you deal in Celsius only.. Then I'm sure they are fine.

 

[d3track]

I ordered the ta4 and will be using it for a herms-seemed to be the best balance of quality/price for my needs

 

[golfindia]

I have cheap Inkbird PIDs and Auber models. Other than being Celsius only, the Inkbird ones work fine. I think you'll see your biggest improvement swapping the K probe for the RTD. The K thermocouples I've used have all been horribly innacurate.

 

[PeteNMA]

Have you tried calibrating your PID and probe using a known good thermometer? My TA4 read about four degrees high out of the box with an Auber RTD. Punched in a calibration factor and all is well with the world

 

[d3track]

Have you tried calibrating your PID and probe using a known good thermometer? My TA4 read about four degrees high out of the box with an Auber RTD. Punched in a calibration factor and all is well with the world

Interesting-I'll have to keep that in mind as my build gets under way

 

[stevehaun]

K type thermocouples get a bad rap. Yes, RTDs are slightly more accurate but we are brewing beer not putting a man on the moon. Do you really think your beer will suffer if you are off by +/- 1F?

If you are off by more than +/- 1F when compared against a good quality thermometer, then you have a different problem than the type of temperature probe.

 

[augiedoggy]

K type thermocouples get a bad rap. Yes, RTDs are slightly more accurate but we are brewing beer not putting a man on the moon. Do you really think your beer will suffer if you are off by +/- 1F?

If you are off by more than +/- 1F when compared against a good quality thermometer, then you have a different problem than the type of temperature probe.

Its my understanding that while they can be dead on at one temp they could be a few degrees off at another...

it all adds up... if you are comparing two different sensors and they are both off then you could be off even more and yeah when mashing a couple degrees matters... why sacrifice that when an rtd costs about the same $$? just my 2 cents.

 

[augiedoggy]

Have you tried calibrating your PID and probe using a known good thermometer? My TA4 read about four degrees high out of the box with an Auber RTD. Punched in a calibration factor and all is well with the world

4 degrees is a lot! I have 4 different mypins and the biggest variance Ive seen is 1 degree when taking the same sensor and trying it on each pid... I do have some sensors that have been off and read a few degrees out from the rest.

The auberins sensor is likely the issue.. They are actually generic sensor also found on aliexpress.

I just bought a cheap pt100 one ebay to find it was off 21 degrees!

 

[PeteNMA]

It's an effect of the cable which adds resistance. It's academic anyway as once it's calibrated it's accurate

 

[paulegli]

The K thermocouples I've used have all been horribly innacurate.

I second that. I had a K-type probe connected to an Auber 2352 in my RIMS controller and was constantly autotuning and adjusting the temperature offset to get a stable, accurate reading throughout the mash. Since I swapped out the K-type for a platinum RTD, I haven't had to mess with any of those settings. The only issue I had with the RTD is that the temperature readings change very quickly so I worried about my heating element going on and off all the time. I bumped the filter setting on the PID up to smooth out the readings and have been happy as a clam ever since.

 

[stevehaun]

In my system I use Omega PIDs that will use a thermocouple or a 2 wire RTD. I started electric brewing before Kal and Auber instruments showed up. I bought 25 feet of k type thermocouple wire off ebay for a song. I cut a length and twisted the ends - a thermocouple. I have been using the same thermocouple for about 9 years. Water boils at 211F and it is dead on at 150F.

Granted, RTDs are more accurate and more linear. With brewing, you want accuracy between 130F and 170F. I do not think the linearity of a k type thermocouple will be an issue in that temperature range, as their useful temperature temperature range is over -200F to 2000F.

If you can get them for a reasonable cost and your PID will accept them, then an a 3 wire RTD makes sense. My point is simply that the advantages of RTDs vs K type thermocouples in electric brewing is overstated and the opening poster could likely make his existing system work.

 

[enrico]

Firstly I want to thank all of you for your help.
After my considerations I found the best deals to be for an INKBIRD controller.

Unfortunately the MYPINs are quiet expensive to be shipped here in Australia which is where I am located now.

Also i wish to advise you about the experience I have got with BERME REX C-100 (made in china) + k type was simply bad. In this controller the temperature reading is affected by the desired temperature you set. Once you set the temperature the controller will always tell the temp you have set (just to make you happy) while the real temperature actually fluctuated with a range of 4-5 °C degree. I realized this after a double check made with a reliable mercury thermometer. I also found a post about the same problem with a guy explaining how to set the REX C-100 avoiding the " forced happy-ending mode". Sadly my REX-100 does not have that setting option. Moreover this controller doesn't work with RTDs.

So right now I am motivated to purchase a INKBIRD ITC-100 which looks very cheap (maybe too cheap?) and even because °C degrees are perfectly fine for me.
I can see there are two different types one is ITC-100VH (voltage pulses output) an the other one is ITC-100RH (relay contact output). Do you know which one is the one that suits my needs? (I have a 40 SSR relay)
Here following the links of both the products:
ITC-100RH INKBIRD http://www.ebay.com/itm/331366813763?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
ITC-100VH INKBIRD http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/220V-AC-INKBIRD-ITC-100VH-Dual-PID-Digital-Temperatur-e-Control-Controller-NEW-/231380602320?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item35df5bcdd0

Another concern I've got is about the setting of these INKBIRDs. Do you guys know if they are simple to set?
Any opinion or experience you could have about these controllers will be deeply appreciated.

 

[doug293cz]

Firstly I want to thank all of you for your help.
After my considerations I found the best deals to be for an INKBIRD controller.

Unfortunately the MYPINs are quiet expensive to be shipped here in Australia which is where I am located now.

Also i wish to advise you about the experience I have got with BERME REX C-100 (made in china) + k type was simply bad. In this controller the temperature reading is affected by the desired temperature you set. Once you set the temperature the controller will always tell the temp you have set (just to make you happy) while the real temperature actually fluctuated with a range of 4-5 °C degree. I realized this after a double check made with a reliable mercury thermometer. I also found a post about the same problem with a guy explaining how to set the REX C-100 avoiding the " forced happy-ending mode". Sadly my REX-100 does not have that setting option. Moreover this controller doesn't work with RTDs.

So right now I am motivated to purchase a INKBIRD ITC-100 which looks very cheap (maybe too cheap?) and even because °C degrees are perfectly fine for me.
I can see there are two different types one is ITC-100VH (voltage pulses output) an the other one is ITC-100RH (relay contact output). Do you know which one is the one that suits my needs? (I have a 40 SSR relay)
Here following the links of both the products:
ITC-100RH INKBIRD http://www.ebay.com/itm/331366813763?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
ITC-100VH INKBIRD http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/220V-AC-INKBIRD-ITC-100VH-Dual-PID-Digital-Temperatur-e-Control-Controller-NEW-/231380602320?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item35df5bcdd0

Another concern I've got is about the setting of these INKBIRDs. Do you guys know if they are simple to set?
Any opinion or experience you could have about these controllers will be deeply appreciated.

To drive an SSR, you want the voltage pulse output model.

Brew on

 

[enrico]

To drive an SSR, you want the voltage pulse output model.

Brew on

Thank you mate!

 

[PeteNMA]

The REX models do have that Boss Mode setting which updates the PV display to the SV display after you set it, but it can be turned off. I think that it's called digital filtering on the instructions?

 

[enrico]

After your considerations I finally decided to purchase the INKBIRD ITC-100VH (voltage pulses output).

Do you guys have any particular recommandation about a good RTD probe?
Does the probe need to have any particular feature to be accurate and effective?

(I saw that the price for it can sensivly vary from 5$ to 30$ and this leaves me in doubt.)

 

[PeteNMA]

After a few attempts buying RTD probes from Amazon I lost my patience and ordered one from Auber. The Amazon ones were either DOA or died rapidly. The Auber one is still going strong

 

[enrico]

The ptc 100 (rtd probe) presumably has a 100 ohms resistance. This in fact does not seem to take into consideration the resistance of the wire.

Could someone please tell me whether I can adjust the inkbird itc-100 in proportion to the resistance of the whole probe (including the 1 mter copper wire which connect the sensor to the controller)?

 

[augiedoggy]

I use a few of these and they work great... The teflon cables are much better and stronger than the ones I have with the auber style stainless jacket that kinks and catches on everything.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RTD-PT100-T...381544?hash=item3abc20fc68:g:S8AAAOSwKtlWpJ4D

Being that you in australia If you really want the exact ones auber resells I would just buy them direct from aliexpress for much less rather than pay for shipping and markup from china to the states back over to OZ..