Advice For Drier Cider

[DJP00829]

So SWMBO loves a nice dry, crisp cider. For my first batch I made some of Edwort's Apfelwine using Mott's apple juice. It fermented down to 1.002 using EC1118 and I bottled with dextrose to carbinate. Everything went well, but the SWMBO thinks it's too sweet! (and I'm inclined to agree)

Looking back, I'm wondering if the sweetness is from too much bottling sugar/tired yeast. I got busy and let the cider sit in the primary for a few months before bottling, so maybe the yeast tuckered out and couldnt convert the bottling sugars? At the same time, could 3.5g of dextrose really add a noticeable sweetness to a 5 gal batch?

So for my next batch I wanted to use some fresh pressed cider from the local cider mill. I know I'll need to use campden tabs on the cider, and to pasteurize the bottles after they've carbed up. And I will definitely bottle it sooner than the first batch to make sure the yeast are still working, but is there anything else I can do differently to try for a drier cider?

Thanks in advance!

 

[bernardsmith]

Not sure why your cider stopped fermenting at 1.002. What was the starting gravity? My ciders ferment dry - I bottle at .996.
Your post suggests that you are concerned that the yeast may have given up the ghost and failed to carbonate the bottles after you primed them.. That is interesting. If in fact the fermentation stopped at 1.002 that may be true but if cider was sparkling then presumably at least some of the sugar (residual or priming or both) was converted to CO2 and alcohol. If the cider was flat then the fermentation must have stalled.
I guess I don't understand why AFTER you prime the cider you NEED to pasteurize it. If you took care of sanitation and the cider was sufficiently acidic and alcoholic then spoilage should not be a big issue ... and if you were concerned you could simply add a small dose of K-meta to add free SO2 to inhibit oxidation. If , however, you wanted to pasteurize the cider to kill the yeast unless you were priming with excessive amounts of sugar (more than about 20 gms /gallon) then there would be no sugar for any yeast to eat and they would stop fermenting the sugars when they had fermented all the sugars in the bottle... Pasteurization would be a waste of time and effort. Is there another reason for pasteurizing the cider?

 

[DJP00829]

Not sure why your cider stopped fermenting at 1.002. What was the starting gravity? My ciders ferment dry - I bottle at .996.

Started at 1.060

Your post suggests that you are concerned that the yeast may have given up the ghost and failed to carbonate the bottles after you primed them.. That is interesting. If in fact the fermentation stopped at 1.002 that may be true but if cider was sparkling then presumably at least some of the sugar (residual or priming or both) was converted to CO2 and alcohol. If the cider was flat then the fermentation must have stalled.

There was definitely some carbonation, so I'm figuring at least SOME yeast were alive and kicking, I just dont know if there were enough.

I guess I don't understand why AFTER you prime the cider you NEED to pasteurize it. If you took care of sanitation and the cider was sufficiently acidic and alcoholic then spoilage should not be a big issue ... and if you were concerned you could simply add a small dose of K-meta to add free SO2 to inhibit oxidation. If , however, you wanted to pasteurize the cider to kill the yeast unless you were priming with excessive amounts of sugar (more than about 20 gms /gallon) then there would be no sugar for any yeast to eat and they would stop fermenting the sugars when they had fermented all the sugars in the bottle... Pasteurization would be a waste of time and effort. Is there another reason for pasteurizing the cider?

Valid points. I had be reading today about back-sweetening with more cider/juice, so that's probably why I was thinking pasteurization was necessary. But you're right, as long as I don't overload it with priming sugar I shouldn't need to pasteurize.

 

[Ravenshead]

I don't know if you can really taste the difference between 1.002 and 0.996 as far a sweetness goes. Both are plenty dry and I'm quite sure your priming sugar was used up as well. Are you sure it's not the apple flavor that you a picking up as sweet? If so, you might want to mix some white grape juice into the mix.

 

[Yooper]

It's unusual that simple sugars and EC1118 would stop at above 1.000. Mine usually go to .990, which is bone dry. A bone dry cider is weirdly tart, but an off-dry cider (1.001-1.006ish) is very nice. I would be surprised if it came across as "sweet", though. I used ale yeast in a cider last fall, and it finished at 1.004. It's not sweet at all, but instead quite tart. Maybe the fruity flavor is being picked up as sweet in your case? I do wonder why the cider would halt above 1.000, though. I've never seen that happen with wine yeast, and certainly never with EC-1118. I wonder if a lack of nutrients halted it?

 

[DJP00829]

Are you sure it's not the apple flavor that you a picking up as sweet? If so, you might want to mix some white grape juice into the mix.

Very possible. How much white grape juice would you recommend for a 5 gallon batch? Would you remove that same volume of apple cider, or just add the grape juice to the 5 gallons of cider?

Maybe the fruity flavor is being picked up as sweet in your case? I do wonder why the cider would halt above 1.000, though. I've never seen that happen with wine yeast, and certainly never with EC-1118. I wonder if a lack of nutrients halted it?

Easily a possibility. I never added any nutrients to the batch.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

I never added any nutrients to the batch.

Bingo. Next time use nutrients & DAP (diammonium phosphate), the 1118 will take it bone dry & will still be good to carb up after priming.
Regards, GF.

 

[madscientist451]

Lower levels of tannin and acidity can create a perception of sweetness.
Store bought apple juice or cider has very little tannin, although the acid component might be fine.
The Motts apple juice was probably more sweet than tart which would indicate a lower level of the naturally occurring Malic acid.
People that keep track of such things state that store bought apple juice contains 3-6g of malic acid per 100g of juice.
You can get Malic acid and tannin additives from a wine making store.
So in addition to getting below 1.000 on the hydrometer , you might want to experiment with your acid and tannin levels.

 

[Yooper]

Lower levels of tannin and acidity can create a perception of sweetness.
Store bought apple juice or cider has very little tannin, although the acid component might be fine.
The Motts apple juice was probably more sweet than tart which would indicate a lower level of the naturally occurring Malic acid.
People that keep track of such things state that store bought apple juice contains 3-6g of malic acid per 100g of juice.
You can get Malic acid and tannin additives from a wine making store.
So in addition to getting below 1.000 on the hydrometer , you might want to experiment with your acid and tannin levels.

That's a great point!

Even just taking a glass and squirting some lemon juice into it (a replacement for citric acid) may be a good experiment. Acid blend is cheap, and so is powdered tannin and you can experiment with tiny bits of it in the glass to see what improves it for making the next batch.

 

[Ravenshead]

How much grape juice is really hard to say. I was just suggesting it as a way to reduce the apple flavor by replacing some of it with a less flavorful option. After reading Mandscientist451 and Yooper's replies, I agree. Go play with the acid and tannin levels and see how things go. A little acid goes a long way though so be careful.

 

[MindenMan]

If I missed it, forgive me. How long after priming did you drink your cider? What temperature did you bottle condition at?

 

[DJP00829]

Even just taking a glass and squirting some lemon juice into it (a replacement for citric acid) may be a good experiment.

I'll give that a try tonight!

If I missed it, forgive me. How long after priming did you drink your cider? What temperature did you bottle condition at?

Been drinking the batch sparingly over the last year and a half. The sweetness had gotten a bit better, but still noticeable. I've moved since bottling the batch, so the bottles have been conditioning at anywhere between 55-70 degrees F.

 

[Cyclman]

I add about 20% more sugar to my apfelwein, and it comes out dry as a bone. My wife loves it dry, but for some of her friends, we have to put some honey in the glass when serving it to sweeten it up. I have to guess it's the lactose...