Adding Enzymes Naturally During Fermentation

[fromhereon]

OK, this is a little experiment I was thinking about trying after reading some articles online. After doing some research I've come under the impression that you can get a lower gravity drier beer by adding enzymes.

I was wondering what would happen if I tried to go a more natural route than adding concentrated enzymes. For example if during the primary fermentation, I did a mini mash to extract a very small amount of wort but did not boil it. Hence not destroying the enzymes. Then add this to the fermenting beer.

This leaves me with a few questions. First how risky is this from a contamination aspect. I know its not ideal but if I had a strong fermentation an some alcohol already in the beer wouldn't that be enough to fight of any bacteria such as Lactobacillus? Especially seeing has how the added unboiled wort would only be something like 20 -30oz.

Secondly, I thought these enzymes only worked within mashing temperatures. But what I read seems to indicate the enzymes will work at fermentation temperatures.

Thanks in advance guys,
Dan

 

[Clementine]

Grain has a lot of wild yeast and microbes living on it, brewing TV did and episode where a guy was capturing wild yeast and he used barley as a source of yeast, I would say there is a really really high chance of infection.

Also did you do a mashout on your mini mash, if the temp reaches 170 then the enzymes are dead.

I think the fermentation temps are also way too low for enzyme activity of any appreciable scale, if at all (what is your source of info there?). There might be some small amount of activity but nothing that will happen quick enough for any noticeable effect.

I think dryer beer can be achieved better through big starters of the correctly selected yeast with an accurate temp profile, (low then increasing through fermentation) + doing all grain with a really low mash temp to produce a really fermentable wort or with ingredient selection and used of adjuncts. I'm guessing your an extract brewer, I only just started all grain and one of the reasons I switched was to have more control over the profile of the beer (also in Hawaii it is easier to store grain than LME).

However if you want to experiment you can by just Alpha and Beta enzymes in a bottle and try your experiment that way. I would think you best use this in the kettle when at mashing temps try to hold it at 148 before you boil? The you don't have to worry about infection and everything else.

Clem

 

[seabass07]

The enzymes would still work at fermentation temps, just a lot slower. But there's definitely a high risk of contamination.

Any reason why you would want to do this during fermentation vs doing a lower temp longer mash?

 

[fromhereon]

Thanks Clem. You make some good points. I gotta say I'm still a little interested though. I've been doing all grain for a couple years now and haven't had any problems. *Knock on wood. Maybe I'll regret this one. I understand being able to dry out the beer through other techniques but this was something a little more experimental. For example if I wanted to get the flavor profile of a certain yeast that had a lower attenuation than I'd like.

 

[fromhereon]

That's very true. I was more focused on the fact that people add concentrated enzymes to during fermentation to increase attenuation. Because of course I'm going to have some unfermentable sugars after the mash. And I understand this is necessary but the enzymes are supposed to convert many of these unfermentable sugars into fermentables.

 

[seabass07]

You can get some crazy attenuation with a low temp mash. Try mashing at 144-146 for 90 minutes. You'll get a very dry beer. The downside is the loss of unfermentable sugars that contribute to flavor.

 

[fromhereon]

Is it really useful to do a 90 min mash? I've been doing a 60 min mash but I've heard most of the starch conversion is done within 20 or 30 minutes.

 

[seabass07]

I haven't measured for conversion, but Ive read in several places that when you do a lower temp mash, you need to give it more time. You are slowing down the alpha amylase enzyme which works faster but can only convert a smaller amount of the starches. Beta amylase is a lot slower, but will give you more fermentable sugars. Beta amylase is more active below 150F.

The 90 minute mash might be over compensating for that, but since I only do that if I want a dry beer, I don't think it would hurt anything.

 

[Clementine]

I started a hell of a "discussion" on the AG page when I asked how do I tell if the mash is converted, the two sides of the argument were iodine test v's increasing gravity reading. I think if your playing with getting the most fermentable wort possible (either with super charged) enzymes or not a longer mash to absolutely make sure your getting conversion would be best. Remember it is a chemical reaction / biological process and the colder it is the slower it will go (typically), just like fermentation.

You could even do an overnight mash, as long as you can keep temps at 130 or greater for the period of the mash, could be a challenge given the lower starting temps.

Clem

 

[dcp27]

Is it really useful to do a 90 min mash? I've been doing a 60 min mash but I've heard most of the starch conversion is done within 20 or 30 minutes.

conversion may be complete, but the enzymes still can further break down the chains.

I would certainly avoid your idea of adding mashed grain to your already fermenting wort, the risk of contamination is way too high. however, you will achieve better attenuation from the lacto and so forth. i'd just mash lower & longer

theres some other parameters you can adjust as well. read this for more details: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.ph...ity_and_efficiency_in_single_infusion_mashing

 

[Brek81]

i have added the carlson amalyse enzyme to the fermentor, the beer turned out pretty good, fg was below 1.

 

[seabass07]

conversion may be complete, but the enzymes still can further break down the chains.

I would certainly avoid your idea of adding mashed grain to your already fermenting wort, the risk of contamination is way too high. however, you will achieve better attenuation from the lacto and so forth. i'd just mash lower & longer

theres some other parameters you can adjust as well. read this for more details: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.ph...ity_and_efficiency_in_single_infusion_mashing

Thanks for that link! Very good info.