Activated liquid yeast and at room temp. Cant brew yet.

[brewfreaky]

I brought this yeast out to room temperature and activated ton Saturday night, and cannot brew yet. Will this go bad? Say I brew Friday or Saturday. What should I do? Put back into fridge?

Edit
Found my answer on their site. 2 days out of the fridge, now back in. How will I know if it's still go to use when ready to use?

 

[marc1]

If you are concerned, you could make a starter to ensure good viability.

 

[GoodTruble]

Yeah, just do a small yeast starter.

 

[brewfreaky]

Ok never got to it since I didn't want to brew in the cold. Started again with yeast pack. Same scenario. Activated it but haven't used for 2 weeks. Too long? But a new yeast pack?
Haven't made a starter before and completely new to please "beer" with me found this Make A Yeast Starter - Brew Your Own

I have liquid malt. So basically just the 3 ingredients, malt, wayer, and the yeast? With these ratios:

• 3.5 oz./100 g plain dried malt extract (DME) (approx. ½ cup). Tip: measuring into a plastic cup (as seen in step 2) makes transfer into the flask easier as you can crease the side of the cup (see step 3 below).
• ½ tsp. yeast nutrient
• 1 qt. (1 L) H2O

Sanitize and follow the rest of the instructions and use within 24-36hrs?

What do I look for to indicate good starter?

 

[marc1]

Make your starter. Shake it up whenever you walk by it. Then either:

1) While it is very bubbly and active, pitch the entire contents of the starter into your finished and cooled wort
or
2) Let it finish fermenting in the starter completely (several days) then put it in the fridge for a couple-few days to drop yeast out. Pour off most of the cleared starter beer down the drain, and mix up and add the rest to your finished and cooled wort.

 

[GoodTruble]

Looks good. After 12-24 hours, if you see foam on top or when you swirl it, you are probably good (you can also go by smell and/our pour a small sample to taste).

Remember the yeast starter will need to off gas. Some people just cover the top with foil, some use a bubble air lock or something similar (-just don't cap it air tight, gas needs a way to escape). Also, if you have a really strong fermentation in the starter, it will foam a lot (possibly over the top) when you swirl.

 

[jpitz31]

As long as you keep on feeding the yeast with wort and yeast nutrient, it will last until you brew. If it gets too long, feed the yeast, wait a day and then back into the frig.

 

[hottpeper13]

why not make the batch 1 qt larger and use that as a vitality starter on brew day?

 

[brewfreaky]

I'm still new to this. This is my first brew so I'm doing research as I get info from you all.

My kit has LME. I've read you can use that instead of DME, with the correct ratio. Now:
1. Am I suppose to use the LME from the kit to create the yeast starter?
2. Can I buy DME to make the yeast starter? If yes, do I need to subtract the amount of DME from the LME, before I use the LME, or is this something to not worry about?
3. Which DME do I buy for IPA?

I may find my answers from further research but these are the questions coming up as I learn

Edit

Ok found this to be helpful. Yeast starter with lme

Answered most questions

 

[marc1]

I'm still new to this. This is my first brew so I'm doing research as I get info from you all.

My kit has LME. I've read you can use that instead of DME, with the correct ratio. Now:
1. Am I suppose to use the LME from the kit to create the yeast starter?
2. Can I buy DME to make the yeast starter? If yes, do I need to subtract the amount of DME from the LME, before I use the LME, or is this something to not worry about?
3. Which DME do I buy for IPA?

I may find my answers from further research but these are the questions coming up as I learn

Edit

Ok found this to be helpful. Yeast starter with lme

Answered most questions

Kits contain the fermentables to make the beer itself, they do not contain extra for a starter. You would have to buy it separately.

 

[brewfreaky]

Gotcha, good to know. Guessing no real issue with using a DME to make the starter? At most, maybe a taste difference?

Edit

Found this, post saying makes no big difference. Some choose lighter colors

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=22680.0

 

[RM-MN]

Kits contain the fermentables to make the beer itself, they do not contain extra for a starter. You would have to buy it separately.

If you remove some of the extract from the kit to make a starter, then dump the entire starter into the wort, you have exactly the same amount of ferementables as before you started. The starter will not taste good but a small amount in a 5 gallon batch will not be noticeable.

 

[marc1]

If you remove some of the extract from the kit to make a starter, then dump the entire starter into the wort, you have exactly the same amount of ferementables as before you started. The starter will not taste good but a small amount in a 5 gallon batch will not be noticeable.

Good point. I like making a nice big starter and then decanting off the starter beer before pitching, but it can be done your way.

 

[brewfreaky]

Ah makes sense. Unless I run into the starter not being viable, then I will have less than the kit. Is the amount lost in the starter a big taste changer? Just wondering. I bought some DME to use in case the activated yeast is bad, since I smacked the packed/activated it over 2 weeks ago

 

[RM-MN]

Unless you boiled your starter after adding the yeast it will be viable. Heat kills yeast as does freezing (without proper preparation), refrigeration does not.

Just how big of a starter did you do? Most of the time the starter is such a small part of a 5 gallon batch that it volume and flavor additions can be ignored.

 

[brewfreaky]

I have not done anything yet. The wyeast liquid yeast has been activated for over 2 weeks. I just bought my 2l beaker and DME to make the starter. Just don't know if that yeast pack is still good or not? Stamp date also passed 1-2 months ago.

This kit is to make 5 gallons. I'm planning to follow the yeast starter instructions I linked to.

Mostly just worried about the activated yeast pack

 

[MikeScott]

I have not done anything yet. The wyeast liquid yeast has been activated for over 2 weeks. I just bought my 2l beaker and DME to make the starter. Just don't know if that yeast pack is still good or not? Stamp date also passed 1-2 months ago.

This kit is to make 5 gallons. I'm planning to follow the yeast starter instructions I linked to.

Mostly just worried about the activated yeast pack

You're on the right path. The yeast may take a day or so to get active. When it's nice and bubbly and eating sugars up, you can pitch it directly, or you can wait until it mostly done and pitch it.
As another option, when it's done, you can pop the flask into the fridge (covered) and let the yeast settle out. Then decant the fermented wort off, leaving just a little to swirl the yeast into suspension, let it warm up to room temp, swirl it all up and pitch that.

I always use DME to make starters, 3oz by weight and 1Q of water gets you to the right gravity. I even usually throw in some yeast nutrient.

 

[brewfreaky]

Thanks everyone.

I am using the calculator for the starter: Yeast Pitch Rate and Starter Calculator - Brewer's Friend
It is asking for pitch rate and gives me options .35, .50 1.0, 1.25. What would I be choosing for IPA? finishing gravity calls for 1.019. I have the wyeast 1187 ringwood ale yeasy pack. Where to I find the target pitch rate, or is that sort of a users preference. Is the also know as the desired final gravity?

This is the kit i have:
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Hom...ing-Kits/India-Pale-Ale-Home-Brewing-Beer-Kit

 

[IslandLizard]

I am using the calculator for the starter: Yeast Pitch Rate and Starter Calculator - Brewer's Friend [...] Where to I find the target pitch rate

Yeast pitch rate for regular ales is 0.75 million cells/ml.

Although I love Brewer's Friend, when it comes to a yeast pitch calculator I always use Brew United's:
Homebrew Dad's Online Yeast Starter Calculator
I just prefer their interface. Calculations should be similar to BF's.

Are you using a flask to make the starter?
If so, don't boil the starter wort in the flask!
Instead, use a clean kitchen pot. After the starter wort has boiled for 1-3 minutes, put a well fitting lid on it while chilling it in the sink or a tub with cold water, so nothing will drop into it. When cool (room temps) pour into your flask,* add the yeast and let the starter do its thing.

==> When working with yeast, keep things well sanitized, you don't want to grow bugs.

* Since you're using a smack pack, take it out of the fridge a couple hours before making the starter. Let come to room temps. Then smack/break the nutrient bubble inside, and shake it up well. Don't open it!
Let stand for an hour or 2, it should swell. Shake again before pouring it into your flask with cooled starter wort.

 

[brewfreaky]

Thanks for the other link, checking it out.

Yup, I am using a flask. Is there any issues with boiling in the flask? I read that keeping it all in one container minimizes the potential for contamination.

 

[IslandLizard]

Is there any issues with boiling in the flask?

They're glass, fragile, can crack when heated, making a tremendous mess.

Keep your sanitation in check for everything that touches your yeast, and starters, you'll be fine. Using a clean (perhaps dedicated?) plastic funnel for pouring the wort into the narrow neck of the flask is recommended.

I've been doing it that way for 12 years, without any issues.

The other benefit of making yeast starters is saving out some of it (say 100-150 ml) in a canning or jelly jar for a next batch. You'd make a starter with that, again, etc. You can easily get 5-10 brews out of that one single pack that way. Yeast gives on giving...
Look up yeast ranching.

You can also save out some (about 1/5 to 1/4) of your yeast cake from your fermenter, and pitch that into the next batch. Good solid sanitation is important.

 

[MikeScott]

The other benefit of making yeast starters is saving out some of it (say 100-150 ml) in a canning or jelly jar for a next batch. You'd make a starter with that, again, etc. You can easily get 5-10 brews out of that one single pack that way. Yeast gives on giving...
Look up yeast ranching.

I personally prefer this method for keeping the yeast going, no rinsing, no washing, just nice yeast, happy and healthy. Today I brewed a Scottish Export, and I'm going to use my WLP-028 Edinburgh. I believe this will be it's 20th, and last, batch of fermented beverage.

Sorry if it's a shameless plug, but we have this guy in the club who makes some truly outstanding beers, regularly taking heavy medal in competitions, and we interviewed him and talked about his yeast starter techniques. He also uses the flask to do a fast ferment test, which is pretty simple to do, and it'll let you know what FG to expect, or if you have a stuck fermentation vs a un-fermentable beer.

 

[brewfreaky]

Yea, I do agree with the glass issue. Better safe than sorry.

Made the starter. Boiled 500ml of water with 50g of DME. Cooled it and poured into sanitized flask added the yeast pack, sanitized foil and covered flask. Now swirl every so often. Just realize Star San should be diluted! I poured a little into the flash and swirled it around then let it drip out. hope that doesnt affect anything! Got some of it on the bottom/side of the pot, and holy cow, that stuff clean the copper and steel to brand new bright finish

 

[marc1]

Be careful with undiluted StarSan! It can etch all kinds of things. Don't get it on your skin. Once diluted it isn't a problem. Also, don't store the bottle laying down, a leak could ruin all kinds of stuff.

StarSan is great stuff, but I don't keep/use my bottle of concentrate near any counters/tables that would be unacceptable to stain.

How much undiluted StarSan was in the flask when you added the wort? ~6mL/gallon is the use rate, so you realistically could have had a more concentrated than use rate mixture with wort in there if you coated the entire inside with concentrate.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/star-san-warning.59605/

 

[IslandLizard]

Just realize Star San should be diluted!

Doh! Don't you read labels, instructions...

Dilution: 6 ml per US gallon, or 1.56 ml per liter.

I poured a little into the flash and swirled it around then let it drip out. hope that doesnt affect anything!

Well, looking at the low amount of beer you've got in the flask, it may very well affect the yeast. Starsan is 50% Phosphoric Acid, that pH may be very low.
If 1.5 ml of the syrupy concentrate clinged to the inside of the flask, you made a double strength Starsan working solution (0.5 liter) from which you made a starter. pH will be well under 3.0

Speaking of the amount of wort/beer in the flask:

Boiled 500ml of water with 50g of DME.

DME : water at 1 : 10 (by weight), that's the correct ratio, yes.

But please, check your starter volume in the flask. It looks kinda low.
It's hard to tell from the photo's vantage point, but if I had to guess you only have around 300ml in that flask. Add some clean water to it to bring it to 500ml.
IIRC, there's a probably a line on the flask at 800 ml, so the 500ml level should be about half way up to that, considering the taper.

But 500 ml is quite a bit short, you'd need at least 1 liter starter for this beer. Especially knowing your yeast is over 7 months old (Dec 17, 2021), viability being low, 20-30% at best.
I'd prepare another 500 ml of starter wort and add it to the flask. It will also dilute that Starsan to half its strength.

Are you using a stir plate? Or manual swirling?
If the latter, it should be swirled well, and often, once an hour at the least. More often is better.

 

[brewfreaky]

Ah, yea, I usually read label. Don't know what happened here. I measured 500ml with the regular pyrex liquid measuring cup. It's sitting now overnight. I will make another 500ml in the afternoon, cool, and add.

I bought alkaline water and used that. I usually buy reverse osmosis but wanted to try alkaline. Going to go back to RO on next fill. Cost significantly less and I eat enough fruits/vegetables to make up for the minerals.

No stir plate yet. Swirling right now. Pic is of the star san after flask sat and star san settled to bottom. I got most of it out. Will be careful with undiluted star san!

 

[IslandLizard]

I bought alkaline water and used that.

Using that water for your starter, your beer to be made, or both?

What's in that "alkaline" water? And why buy it? You can add your own minerals to RO water, if needed.

 

[IslandLizard]

Pic is of the star san after flask sat and star san settled to bottom. I got most of it out.

That looks like 1-2 ml in that little puddle. Did the flask contain any leftover water from cleaning and rinsing? If so, that little puddle may be diluted Starsan, which would reduce the amount of carryover acid.
If you got most of that out, there's some good hope your starter isn't at a pH of 3, as that would not be good for your yeast.

Your alkaline water, depending on how much alkalinity it contains, may help to compensate for the excess acidity, but chances are it's only very little.

After you swirl it, do you see foam forming? That would be a positive sign the yeast is healthy, fermenting, and hopefully growing.
Swirl as often as you can, to incorporate air (oxygen) into the starter. It helps the yeast to spend its resources on growing new cells (it needs oxygen for that).

You can build your own stir plate from an old computer fan and a strong magnet. Or just buy one. You also need a (magnetic) stir bar.

 

[IslandLizard]

I measured 500ml with the regular pyrex liquid measuring cup.

Before boiling or after chilling?

Will be careful with undiluted star san!

Yeah, no kidding with that stuff.
I accidentally got a little Starsan concentrate on my fingers when overfilling a smaller bottle from the 1 gallon jug. It had already started to dissolve my skin by the time I washed it off with cold water. I brew in the kitchen, the faucet is very near, so it was on there for 20-30 seconds tops, but my hands were damp, making the skin super penetrable, like a damp sponge!

 

[brewfreaky]

The machine I buy water at has 3 options for water: RO, alkaline, and distilled. Alkaline showed the PH on the machine. I think I saw around 8. I use for drinking. Got hooked onto buying it after living in city with iffy tap water. Will most likely use tap water for brewing for now. May be try using RO in the future. What are your takes on it? Tap is all good?

500ml measurement was before boiling.

I didn't see much bubbling after I added the yeast . After cleaning glass, it sat upside down for a couple minutes to let water drain. No too much water

Yup, plan to build one with some spare parts I have

Will the added wort make a difference? Deciding if I should add it now.

If I swirl, I get what's in the pic. Note the color on the bubbles. I think that's star san making the color?

 

[IslandLizard]

500ml measurement was before boiling.

Yeah, that's what I reckoned. You want 500ml going into the flask, after boiling/chilling. If the water you use for your starters is clean, drinking quality, you can top up without boiling first.
If you want 500 ml in the end, you need to estimate your evaporation amount. Once the the DME (or LME) is dissolved, starter wort doesn't need to boil for more than 2-3 minutes, but you may evaporate 1-3 ounces easily in a large pot by the time it's chilled.

I didn't see much bubbling after I added the yeast

You're not going to see bubbling in a starter, but you may see tiny bubbles rising when swirling, creating a thin foam layer on top. That's a good sign, she's alive and doing her job!

I also see the tin foil cap being affected by the star san I put on.

Replace it. You don't want holes in it.
It should be loosely crimped around the flask's neck, being able to turn it. I cover the aluminum "tent" with a small piece of sanitized plastic wrap, just to cover any pinholes that may form in the aluminum foil. I have evidence of that happening.

Make sure to sanitize everything that touches the top or gets inside of the flask.

Will the added wort make a difference? Deciding if I should add it now.

Yes it will, making a bigger starter makes more yeast. That yeast you have is over 7 months old, and was shipped. None of those help with the yeast's viability or vitality. Starters will.

I normally would wait with adding more starter wort until the first step is done, but since we have the accidental Starsan acidity issue, I would add it now, bringing it up to 1 liter, which will help dilute the acid and surfactant.

 

[brewfreaky]

I double checked the foil and edited my post. What looked like eating through was some bubbling, but I will dilute star san and add to spray bottle.
Kk will add the clean drinking water to the current starter and create another 500ml to cool and add.

I also edited previous post and added pic. I do see bubbles when I swirl

 

[IslandLizard]

I made a snapshot of BrewUnited's Yeast Calculator to show you your yeast situation at hand. Some key cells are highlighted.

Really, BrewUnited's is the only yeast calculator I'd urge you to use. Forget Brewer's Friend's one, it's not as clear and concise. But they're good for about everything else, brew-wise.
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

Now you're not using a stir plate, only manually swirling, which is not as effective. So keep swirling as often as you possibly can, until the starter is done. You can tell when it's getting there, when it's becoming thick and opaque, with a layer of yeast settling on the bottom between swirling.

 

[IslandLizard]

will add the clean drinking water to the current starter and create another 500ml to cool and add.

Is that the mineralized (alkaline) drinking water you bought? That's should be fine yes. But... that water is only as clean as the container it's in, or the tap it was poured from. Could there be germs hiding under the lid...

What's the reason you don't drink your municipal tap water?

 

[brewfreaky]

I added a little extra water to the starter since I had a few extra grams of dme poured out. Didn't have to add and water to the flask. It's looking pretty good now!

In the past the, the water didn't taste that great so I started buying. Was also an very old building. Cast iron tub/sink, and bathroom sink had 2 spouts, one for hot and one for cold. I just kept buying after I moved. Tap water here not is bad.

Yea, I agree. I wonder about my containers sometimes. I do check and sometimes clean out.

 

[IslandLizard]

Looking very good! ^

Keep swirling. Use both hands, one around the neck and the other under the bottom. Be careful not to bump the flask against something. Keep a soft, 2x folded-over towel underneath.

When were you planning to brew?

 

[brewfreaky]

Planning tomorrow around 2-4. If not then definitely Tuesday. If I wait till Tuesday, do I put it back into fridge? Or is waiting till tuesday not as good? If it's okay, do i keep out of the fridge until then?

 

[IslandLizard]

Planning tomorrow around 2-4. If not then definitely Tuesday. If I wait till Tuesday, do I put it back into fridge? Or is waiting till tuesday not as good? If it's okay, do i keep out of the fridge until then?

It may take 2 days to grow completely...

But when it's done, yup, you should store it in the fridge, unless you're brewing that day.*

While the starter is still propagating, I advise to keep an eye on it during the night, as that's when blow-overs tend to happen, due to the lack of swirling/degassing.
Maybe check every 3 hours and give it a good 30-60 second swirl to degas it. It also aerates it, promoting growth over sheer fermentation.

Reason for checking every few hours is that before I had a stir plate, too many times I lost half of my starter overnight, oozing over the countertop. Not a pleasant surprise at 5 or 6 am.
Maybe place the flask inside a large bowl or on a couple rags to catch any spewing. Any yeast coming out of the flask is infected, and lost, of course. When that happens, just clean the flask's neck with sanitizer, and replace the foil. Damn! Better to prevent it...
I gathered it happened after about 2-4 hours. But depends highly on the yeast's vigor at the moment.

* After a few days in the fridge all yeast matter will have precipitated (settled out) leaving almost clear beer on top.

On brew day, (slowly!) pour most of that clear beer ("supernatant") off the top, into the sink or compost bucket. Or into a glass if you like to taste some. This is similar to pouring out a bottle-conditioned beer, leaving the trub behind. Except here, we spill out the beer, and save the yeast, which is what we're after.

Let the decanted starter come to room temps, swirl all of it up into a pourable slurry, and add to your chilled and well aerated batch of wort in the fermenter.
You can leave some slurry behind (a couple tablespoons) and make a new starter from it. Or save out in a small 4 or 8 oz canning or jelly jar. 12 oz jelly jars work fine too, but take up more space in the fridge.

 

[brewfreaky]

I put the flask in a pot secretly hoping for some action but I was safe. Today I do see more particles sticking to the side of the flask when swirling.

I definitely going to try and propagate the yeast

No brew today. Here is pic update. Few bigger bubbles happening after pic!

 

[IslandLizard]

The starter is getting more opaque, a sign that the yeast is growing. ^
Tomorrow you may even see some yeast precipitating.

I put the flask in a pot secretly hoping for some action but I was safe.

Good thinking!

You don't have much action, yet, because the number of viable yeast cells is fairly low (per our yeast calculator), and they're not very vital after their 7 months hibernation. And who knows what they went through during the various transports?

That's why you should always make a starter when using wet (liquid) yeast, raising the population and bringing them to optimal vitality, readying them for the big event: Fermenting your upcoming batch of beer!
Your beer, and your taste buds, will thank you for it, in return.

Give it at least another day and you may see more foam, especially when swirling, or even a foam-over when not watching closely.
Keep it inside that pot overnight, for all security, and set your alarm!

When I plan a brew, it all begins with the yeast, making starters, a few days to a week ahead of brewing.
At this very moment I'm preparing 3-5 starters for upcoming brews. Now these are recently saved slurries from previous rounds of starters. So I just ramp up their cell count, while revitalizing them, readying them for pitching in a few days.
Mind, some of those yeasts I bought in 2015.