acid test red wine?

[Bubbles2]

Thanks for looking in,

I was looking at getting one of those test kits, some are pre conditioned strips others are vials and droppers. I read reviews on the "A" and there is complaints when using with Red wine, color match off, things like that.
Is there another kit? Is there an old way to do it without a kit? Like Iodine and Grist tests?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Do you have a pH meter?

 

[Bubbles2]

Do you have a pH meter?

Durkha Durkha.... whats next buying Pickling Salt... Goof grief why did I not think of that

 

[Bubbles2]

So PH is different than acid for those making fruit wine. If a kit prob spot on and the PH meter will assure the tart is from acid and not PH.
To handle red wine because of the strips from paper and matching is indeed difficult. Use this kit if PH is good and you want to check the tart and do not trust your tongue...
https://www.amazon.com/Midwest-Home...d=1568838211&sprefix=acid+test,aps,185&sr=8-4

 

[jonereb]

I use the acid testing kit linked above. For red wines they suggest adding a little water to give the wine a rose appearance. I've never tested white wines, so I can't compare, but I am able to see a color change as I add drops to my red muscadine wine sample. Perhaps it's not perfect, but it's helps.

 

[Bubbles2]

I use the acid testing kit linked above. For red wines they suggest adding a little water to give the wine a rose appearance. I've never tested white wines, so I can't compare, but I am able to see a color change as I add drops to my red muscadine wine sample. Perhaps it's not perfect, but it's helps.

Good to hear feedback from someone who is real on that kit.

 

[RPh_Guy]

So PH is different than acid for those making fruit wine. If a kit prob spot on and the PH meter will assure the tart is from acid and not PH.
To handle red wine because of the strips from paper and matching is indeed difficult. Use this kit if PH is good and you want to check the tart and do not trust your tongue...
https://www.amazon.com/Midwest-Homebrewing-and-Winemaking-Supplies/dp/B0064OFUCY/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2S9BVLNX2M77B&keywords=acid+test+kit+for+wine+making&qid=1568838211&sprefix=acid+test,aps,185&sr=8-4

A pH meter measures pH, which is very useful for making wine because you need it to properly dose sulfite, determine whether you can perform a MLF, and determine whether a low pH may be inhibiting fermentation.

Measuring TA is also very useful because it helps you scientifically measure and adjust the acidic/tart flavor of the wine by measuring the actual amount of acid and its salts. (You taste the amount of acid, you do NOT taste pH.)

These "kits" involve adding a strong base to a same until it reaches pH 8.2. The included indicator solution (phenolphthalein) gives you a simple visual indication when the pH crosses the threshold. Using a pH meter instead of the indicator solution is also valid, and potentially easier to see, especially in red wines.

So if you have a pH meter, you can skip buying the "kit" and instead just buy some sodium hydroxide. You'll still need a way to accurately measure the sample volume and the sodium hydroxide volume, like a syringe.

 

[Bubbles2]

A pH meter measures pH, which is very useful for making wine because you need it to properly dose sulfite, determine whether you can perform a MLF, and determine whether a low pH may be inhibiting fermentation.

Measuring TA is also very useful because it helps you scientifically measure and adjust the acidic/tart flavor of the wine by measuring the actual amount of acid and its salts. (You taste the amount of acid, you do NOT taste pH.)

These "kits" involve adding a strong base to a same until it reaches pH 8.2. the included indicator solution (phenolphthalein) gives you a simple visual indication when the pH crosses the threshold. Using a pH meter instead of the indicator solution is also valid, and potentially easier to see, especially in red wines.

So if you have a pH meter, you can skip buying the "kit" and instead just but some sodium hydroxide. You'll still need a way to accurately measure the sample volume and the sodium hydroxide volume, like a syringe.

So do you bring up your test solution to 8.2? And measure from there? Where you would need both the Pheno drops to get to 8.2 and the So H30 is it? or is that peroxide? any how add the 10cc increments to the 10 cc sample to know the TA?

 

[RPh_Guy]

The amount of sodium hydroxide needed to get to sample to pH 8.2 is what you need to calculate the TA.

Add the sodium hydroxide just a little bit at a time, while stirring. The more precisely you can measure the amount of sodium hydroxide, the more precise your measure of TA will be.

I'm sorry if I'm not explaining this very well. It's an advanced topic requiring some knowledge of chemistry.
For what it's worth, I don't generally measure TA because I prefer to adjust by taste.

 

[Bubbles2]

The amount of sodium hydroxide needed to get to sample to pH 8.2 is what you need to calculate the TA.

Add the sodium hydroxide just a little bit at a time, while stirring. The more precisely you can measure the amount of sodium hydroxide, the more precise your measure of TA will be.

I'm sorry if I'm not explaining this very well. It's an advanced topic requiring some knowledge of chemistry.
For what it's worth, I don't generally measure TA because I prefer to adjust by taste.

Well that went full circle from my orig statement of "if you do not trust your tongue" LOL
So on the subject, the 8.2 is achieved via Pheno drops (I assume) as that is the first application to the 10ml reserved for the test.
At which point the Sodium is then administered in increments such as a syringe and is then equated to 10cc per 1 point of acid measurement where the color changes from Grey using white wine and Pink is it? for Red.

You are stating that the Pheno drops are not needed, but how do you know where you are starting (starting point) to count the amount added to know the actual acid amount? Is it 10cc until the color is grey or pink according to wine type? Say 30ml added equates to a 3 TA?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Phenolphthalein does not change the pH; it's only there to change color.

The wine starts at whatever natural pH it is, and then you add sodium hydroxide (a base, which raises pH) in small increments until the pH is 8.2.

At that point, you know the base neutralized all the acid in the sample of wine. From there, you can calculate the acid that was present.

I find it easier to use a calculator like FermCalc to help with the math. It includes acid titration, and can convert between different acids.

 

[Bubbles2]

Phenolphthalein does not change the pH; it's only there to change color.

The wine starts at whatever natural pH it is, and then you add sodium hydroxide (a base, which raises pH) in small increments until the pH is 8.2.

At that point, you know the base neutralized all the acid in the sample of wine. From there, you can calculate the acid that was present.

I find it easier to use a calculator like FermCalc to help with the math. It includes acid titration, and can convert between different acids.

That is kinda interesting in the fact that One can measure with a PH meter, to the 8.2 via Sodium H using the calc. One would think (since I have not gone over and used the calc yet dloaded or allowed Jscript) that the PH meter would be able to help cipher acid, but I guess that is where the So H comes in via by volume.... Thanks for the tip on that.