About sanitizing bottles
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Peppers16
Well-Known Member
What strength alcohol are we talking about exactly? Vodka? Methylated spirit?
Star San
Well, that'll surely kill any nasties in there, but I'd still go with a known winner....
^known winner^
Turner5
Well-Known Member
You shouldn't use denatured alcohol to sterilize since it is poisonous. If you're determined to use it still you need to let it evaporate completely so that the methanol or whatever other additive in the ethanol is not in your bottles. Overall, seems pretty risky to me.
is it that poisonous?, I mean I'll wait for it to evaporate but always a little bit may stay in the bottle.
hombreman
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As an alternative, you could soak the bottles in a bath of bleach (around 4 ml per litre) and cold water, for twenty minutes or so. This is what I used to do before I could get hold of Star San.
Generally the bleach taste shouldn't be noticeable, but to be sure it's better to rinse the bottles with hot water/boiled water before you add the beer.
This approach is easy and effective, but time consuming.
Generally the bleach taste shouldn't be noticeable, but to be sure it's better to rinse the bottles with hot water/boiled water before you add the beer.
This approach is easy and effective, but time consuming.
KPSquared
Well-Known Member
Is there no mail in your country either? Just order some star san, get it shipped to you. Probably be expensive but it'll last you for a long time and make you're life WAY easier.
I'm no expert (at all) but I did a little research on alcohol for sanitizing brewing equipment (it deserves a google search, really). Apparently the best alcohol to use for this is 70% diluted ethyl alcohol because water helps alcohol kill cells. And even then it can take about 10 minutes.
You should look into using distilled vinegar. Give that a google search and you will be pleasantly surprised, I wager!
I use about 8oz of Star San over 20-24 batches for sanitizing everything. Just mix up a gallon of solution at a time using distilled water then use a spray bottle to cover every surface that needs to be sanitized. I spray it into the bottles.
Iodophor would be a good alternative.
Iodophor would be a good alternative.
Turner5
Well-Known Member
I'm probably not qualified to say but they do put the additives in denatured alcohol specifically so people can't drink it. Methanol is commonly used in denatured alcohol and small amounts can cause permanent blindness. In addition, 30mL is fatal in humans.
Definitely worth the price. You can reuse it over and over. Keep a spray bottle full so you don't have to constantly mix it up to sanitize equipment. A large bottle should last you at least a year, even if you brew a lot.
Peppers16
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread yet, so I'll add that Star-San is specifically designed to be no-rinse. So no risk of blindness 
Can you get Iodine? The other recommended no-rinse sanitizer is Iodophor, which is just titratable iodine diluted with water to the proper ratio to be a no-rinse sanitizer that doesn't affect the flavor of the beer.
Rather than spending a large amount of money for a small bottle of it at our homebrewshop, man of us buy a large amount of it for a little money at Farmer's supply stores, it's the common sanitizer in the dairy industry, and it's used by farmers to sanitize the teats and the milking equipment on the dairy farm. And it comes in a gallon for the same price you buy a few ounces at the brew store.
You have to do some calculations based on the percetnage of iodine present to then dilute it to the recommended 12.5 ppm. For many formulations of Iodine (iodophors) that usually works out to being about 1 tablespoon/5 gallons of water for a no-rinse, wet contact solution that requires only a minute contact time to render whatever you want sanitized.
Rather than spending a large amount of money for a small bottle of it at our homebrewshop, man of us buy a large amount of it for a little money at Farmer's supply stores, it's the common sanitizer in the dairy industry, and it's used by farmers to sanitize the teats and the milking equipment on the dairy farm. And it comes in a gallon for the same price you buy a few ounces at the brew store.
You have to do some calculations based on the percetnage of iodine present to then dilute it to the recommended 12.5 ppm. For many formulations of Iodine (iodophors) that usually works out to being about 1 tablespoon/5 gallons of water for a no-rinse, wet contact solution that requires only a minute contact time to render whatever you want sanitized.
If you have to even ask this question......it's worth staying away from, no?
As somebody else mentioned, you can always bake your bottles in your oven to sanitize/sterilize them, too. Lots of good information out there on the temps/times to go this route.
As per John Palmer, I do 340* for 60 min with the bottles in during preheating.
TimpanogosSlim
Well-Known Member
Common hardware store 'denatured alcohol' is often half methanol.
See this msds sheet for what Lowes sells around here: http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD20000136AA.pdf
You could use bacardi 181 to sanitize bottles but i'd rather not.
If the OP has a dishwasher he could use the "heat and prayer" method - make sure you're not using a rinsing agent, clean the bottles by hand and then run them through the rinse cycle and heated drying cycle twice. There's very little that is likely to survive that treatment in quantity, and a lot of people use that method. if my dishwasher worked i sure would.
It's pretty common. This is a must read if you're going to be santizing with iodine based sanitizers. Sanitizing with Iodophors
Just small amounts of methanol used to denature ethanol will make you go blind!!!! Stay away from it if you can. Use the iodine like they use in the hospitals in a diluted form. It is a non-rinse sanitizer. If you can't get that easily go for the bleach solution as suggested before or better yet, just boil them for 10 minutes.
TimpanogosSlim
Well-Known Member
once again, the "small amount" of methanol used to denature hardware store ethanol is often 45-50% by volume.
medusa1066
Well-Known Member
methanol --> alcohol dehydrogenase --> formaldehyde
And that = death
Denatured alcohol is denatured so people can't drink it so stores can sell it w/o special licensing. From what I understand it should go right next to turpentine and gasoline on your list of things to consume.
Arctic-Stranger
Member
Most homebrew supply stores will not ship outside of the contiguous United States. I tried to get a kit shipped up to Alaska, and no one would ship it. I had three orders cancelled on me because they would not ship. One company even promised it, but then I got an email saying the order was canceled.
If it is not illegal to ship, you might have to have someone you know here mail you some. It will be MUCH cheaper!
That's probably because home brewing, and alcohol in general, is pretty illegal in many parts of Alaska. And it seems the authorities are pretty tough on booze even in the areas that aren't dry.
Both Northern Brewer and Midwest Supply ship outside the US. How do I know this, you ask? My wife works in international shipping at the UPS hub here in Mpls, and both NB and Midwest have packages going through there on a daily basis.
Pminyard
Member
BTF Iodine based sanitizer for everything- Very fast (60 seconds) and thorough -no residual taste- even though you can do a "no rinse" I always do a quick rinse. Chlorine takes forever to rinse.
Then you're doing the same thing that folks who rinse starsan do, negating the efficacy of the sanitizer to continue to protect whatever is santized and possibly re-infecting what you sanitized.
No-rinse, means no rinse for a reason.
CalvinHoppes
New Member
I've only been brewing a short time, but I use a bleach solution and then run them through the dishwasher. I haven't had a problem yet.
Arctic-Stranger
Member
No, that is not the reason. It is because they they don't ship through the USPS and UPS and FedEX only do one day shipping to Alaska. I managed to find some stores that sell homebrew supplies up here, so there is no problem with that. It us just that I have to take what they have, and that often limits what I can do.
Pminyard
Member
I'm sure that Revvy's really hot, but does that mean that he (or she) needs to demean the opinion of anyone other than his or her self with no real understanding of what is being discussed? If you are about to pitch a batch, using an iodine based sterilizer and immediately pitching the brew is the best way to go. You are assured that there will be no residual odor or taste in your brew.
I can assure you that I am privy to the opinions of a multitude of pontificators and find few of them helpful. I know that it's hard for those who know everything there is to know about everything to resist chastising those who don't subscribe to their line.
Thanks, but next time know of what you speak and accept the opinions of those who could possibly have more experience that you!
I can assure you that I am privy to the opinions of a multitude of pontificators and find few of them helpful. I know that it's hard for those who know everything there is to know about everything to resist chastising those who don't subscribe to their line.
Thanks, but next time know of what you speak and accept the opinions of those who could possibly have more experience that you!
homebrewdad
Well-Known Member
Are you a troll, or do you just lack simple reading comprehension skills?
You posted a fairly common new brewer mistake - rinsing a "no-rinse" sanitizing agent. Most people are used to chemicals that leave behind undesirable aftertastes, and therefore, many new brewers are reluctant to leave any sort of residue behind.
Rinsing negates a big portion of the benefit of using the sanitizer in the first place. Revvy didn't demean you - he offered an invaluable tip born from extensive experience. Feel free to ignore it if you like; go ahead and disagree with the advice given, if you like - nobody here is trying to force you to do anything. Hey, go grab some denatured alcohol if you feel bulletproof.
But don't act like a whiny child because someone tried to help prevent you from ruining future batches of beer.
I'm a newb. I know that I'm a newb. I ask questions, I take advice. I'd like to learn from some other peoples' mistakes so that I don't have to make every single one myself. Your mileage may vary... but why come to a discussion forum if you can't handle a different viewpoint than your own (which happens to be rather uninformed)?
boscobeans
Well-Known Member
To quote a line from one of my books:
“My father said that I would never be a good fisherman unless I got in the boat and helped with my own two hands. He said it would be stupid to ignore the lessons from those who have more experience. If we all did that we would waste our lives baiting the hook and then throwing the rod in after the fish.”
bosco
“My father said that I would never be a good fisherman unless I got in the boat and helped with my own two hands. He said it would be stupid to ignore the lessons from those who have more experience. If we all did that we would waste our lives baiting the hook and then throwing the rod in after the fish.”
bosco
Really? Two posts in and you're joining that crowd? I know I'm not the only regular on this site that's thinking this, but it's dudes (or gals) like you who're making some of us reconsider trying to be helpful anymore. I think it's really cr@ptastic that every time a knowledgeable brewer offers their time and advice to help someone out, some..... guy.... comes along and basically talks a bunch of $hit. It's pretty d@mn offensive to those of us who might want to actually learn something about brewing, or to those of us who enjoy sharing our knowledge and/or experiences. The people here that post and answer questions all the time do it because we like to, because it's fun, and because it feels good to help people out. We all remember what it was like when we started and many of us wish we had an experienced brewer at hand to help out. And that's what this site USED to be about. I was incognito for a ~month or so due to family issues and ever since I came back around, I've seen this type of @$$hattery getting out of control. It's sick. Not to mention very sad. Really, if trolling is your thing, go create a myfacetwatspacebook page and troll there, from what I here they love that sorta thing.
homebrewdad
Well-Known Member
I agree with you. There has been an amazing escalation of the asshat posts in the past week or two. To the tune of "as many in that time span as I've seen since the beginning of 2012 combined".
Thanks to you, Revvy, Yooper, JLem, and all the other vets who DO take the time to help out clueless jerks like me.
Wow, just wow. You regulars often times make me regret supporting this board. Sometimes simply not replying can make for a far better experience than always having to get in the last word.
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