A few basic electric questions

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Carolina_Matt

Carolina_Matt

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I currently BIAB in my garage with propane, and I'm looking into all-in-one electric systems. From the quotes I've seen, it would be about $250 to put a GFCI 240V outlet under my circuit breaker in the garage, which is a little more than I'd like to spend right now. (It would be $150 without GFCI, but I'd rather not risk it).

I'm considering trying 120V electric on two circuits. One option would be the 120V Digiboil (1500W element) as my base. Then I would supplement that with either a 1000W (or 1500W) heatstick, or maybe a ~1500W Hot Rod if I can find a decent price on a used one.

As for the electric questions - what's the best way to see what the current load is on each circuit? Most of my circuits are 15 amp, and a 1500W element would take up about 12.5 amps. I have various other things plugged in (lighting, garage door opener, a freezer in the garage, etc). Is there an easy way to see how much they're all using up right now, so that I know how much I have left on the circuit?

Also, how does an extension cord impact things? I have a dining room right by my garage with very little on the circuit - can I just plug the Hot Rod (or Digiboil) into an extension cord?
 
What kind of all in one system are you considering? Most, if not all, sold here in the U.S. are 120V.

You have a circuit breaker in your garage? Is that a double pole (240V) one? Is it self contained or in a small panel?
What does it feed?
 
I was initially looking at the 240V Digiboil, but now I'm considering the 120V Digiboil.

I think I misspoke when I mentioned a 'circuit breaker' in my garage. The whole panel for my house is in my garage, and there are several open slots on the bottom. Plenty of space to add a new 240V circuit in there, but I'm not eager to pay $250 to make it happen, which is why I'm looking into options for using two 120V options.
 
I didn't know there was a 240V version offered. There certainly is a lot of charm of having the 240V edition, it features an extra 2000W element the 110V (1000W + 500W) version doesn't have, more than doubling its heating power.
bigdawg86 said:
If the main panel is already in your garage why don't you do it yourself? It's super easy, just will have one extra wire than 120v... two hots, neutral, and ground. The GFCI breaker will run you maybe 100-120 installed if you do it yourself.
Click to expand...
I agree with that.
If you won't be able to do it yourself, maybe a more electrical savvy friend can? The 240V, 2 pole GFCI breaker will likely be the most expensive part. Many use a spa (sub) panel instead, since that already includes such GFCI breaker. But... prices of spa panels have gone up significantly the past few years, reducing the potential savings. But it offers expansion for the future, as they are usually 50-70 Amps at 240V (including 120V taps), all GFCI protected.
 
The best way to temporarily monitor current in a circuit is with clamp-on ammeter. You might be able borrow one.
A big advantage of this type of measurement is you do not need to connect it directly to to the circuit. The meter just clamps loosely around one wire in the circuit to measure the current.

Extension cords can impact electrical circuits running high current. Two main points are: 1) Don't use a cord that is any longer than necessary. The longer the cord is, the less power will be available to the control panel due to resistive losses in the cord.

2) Do use an extension cord made from the proper gauge wire. The (physically) larger the wire gauge (and numerically smaller), the lower the resistive losses will be. The proper wire gauge used will vary, depending on the size of your electric elements and load requirements of your panel. Sometimes making your own cord is the best way to meet these objectives.
 
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One thing I've noticed in my brewing career is that sometimes I've made decisions that, in the short term, appear to save money, but in the long term, end up being replaced by something better. And thus the money spent in the short term is wasted.

[I know, I know, people aren't made of money, and so on. But sometimes, if one knows what one wants, the better course of action is to get what one wants, and not have sunk costs that are wasted later. YMMV]

If you can afford $150 but not $250--sounds like you have the same electrical system I do, my 30-amp GFCI breaker cost $103--step back a bit and ask yourself what you might do to get that last $100.

Give up a latte a day for a month? Find a short-term gig? Sell off some unused brewing equipment, or other stuff you have lying around that you don't use any more? Do some short-term handyman stuff like clean gutters, help people move with a pickup truck, stuff like that? Or maybe you could borrow it from someone and pay it back over time?

I wired 240v into my garage, and it's the best thing I could have ever done. Yeah, it wasn't cheap. But once you taste the fruits of 240v, you'll wonder how you ever did without it.

And here's the thing: do you REALLY want a digiboil, or is it just a compromise given what you think you can do? Or is there a chance you might go bigger later, and at that point, wish you'd have installed 240v?

All I'm trying to do here is complicate your decisionmaking process, and your life. :)

*******

When I wired my garage for 240v, I put in a sub-panel from which I could run whatever circuits I wanted. I ran a 60-amp circuit from the main panel to the sub-panel. In the subpanel there's a 30-amp 240v circuit for my electric brewing, a couple 20-amp 120v circuits for my chiller and my RIMS setup, and as it happened later, a 30-amp circuit for a garage heater.

The three big costs were the sub panel (about $60 IIRC), the 6-gauge wire ($110?) and the 30-amp GFCI breaker ($103). I installed most of it myself, had a friend who's an electrician make the connection in the main breaker box and the subpanel.

It's all the cat's meow. I am so glad I did it this way, knowing that if I'd settled for less I'd be kicking myself right now.

Here's one reason why. One day I was walking through Menards (home store) and saw they had 5000-watt ceiling-mounted 240-v garage heaters for....$63 after rebate. Sixty-three bucks? Are you kidding? It suddenly dawned on me that I had 240v power in my garage, I knew how to hook up a 240v appliance as I'd watched my friend do it....

It took about another $15 for BX cable to run from the sub-panel to the heater, and I had electric heat in my garage for about $80. During the winter, I can bump up the temp out there from 35 to 60, and it's nice and comfortable. I can also do other work out there. What I did was take a garage space that is otherwise not that usable in the winter, and turned it into a year-round space.

It also dawned on me that should the occasion arise, I also have 240v power in case I should ever get an electric car and want the fast charging system.

So I'm just saying....what are you going to wish you had done six months, a year from now?

****

A few pics showing what it looks like.

subpanel.jpg brewspacesubpanel.jpg brewspaceconduit.jpg panelsonwall.jpg garageheater.jpg
 
processhead said:
2) Do use an extension cord made from the proper gauge wire. The larger the wire gauge, the lower the resistive losses will be. The proper wire gauge used will vary, depending on the size of your electric elements and load requirements of your panel. Sometimes making your own cord is the best way to meet these objectives.
Click to expand...

Technically correct, but wire gauge numbers works in reverse. Therefore you want an extension cord with the lower gauge number.

I agree these should be avoided altogether though. Power will be limited no matter the size. But if you must, I’d look for 12 AWG or lower.
 
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I'm leaning towards biting the bullet and just hiring the electrician. Even if I can do it myself after watching a few youtube videos, in the back of my mind I'd worry that I messed something up and the house would be in danger. And it seems like using two 120V circuits wouldn't be ideal. I'll look for a few more quotes, but it seems like $250 is the range around here. Then another ~$250 for the 240V Digiboil.

I do have the money to spend so I wouldn't need to sell equipment to pay for it - but I'm just naturally frugal.
 
As a quick follow-up, I got two more quotes. A recommended electrician gave me a quote for $450 to install it directly under my panel. That's a quick 'no'. Someone else I found on Nextdoor that's more of a handy-man with a lot of electrical experience, and it was $150. My hopes were up for a moment, before I realized that was just labor and I would need to buy the parts. So that brings it back to $250. Oddly enough, everybody I've spoken to has done a double-take when I mention GFCI. They say they've installed 240V outlets for years and have never done a 240V GFCI. I guess there aren't a ton of electric brewers here.

By the way, does this sound right for the parts? Or would I need anything else?

GFCI breaker:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens...F2-GFCI-Circuit-Breaker-US2-QF230AP/206965318

6-30 outlet:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/utilitech-...CMXwBHxQOHIw1Il4YIxoC9uUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Wire:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...x-SIMpull-CU-NM-B-W-G-Wire-63947699/204724937

Face Plate:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Legrand...e-Wall-Plate-Stainless-Steel-SL7CC5/202655370
 
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mongoose33 said:
One thing I've noticed in my brewing career is that sometimes I've made decisions that, in the short term, appear to save money, but in the long term, end up being replaced by something better. And thus the money spent in the short term is wasted.

[I know, I know, people aren't made of money, and so on. But sometimes, if one knows what one wants, the better course of action is to get what one wants, and not have sunk costs that are wasted later. YMMV]

If you can afford $150 but not $250--sounds like you have the same electrical system I do, my 30-amp GFCI breaker cost $103--step back a bit and ask yourself what you might do to get that last $100.

Give up a latte a day for a month? Find a short-term gig? Sell off some unused brewing equipment, or other stuff you have lying around that you don't use any more? Do some short-term handyman stuff like clean gutters, help people move with a pickup truck, stuff like that? Or maybe you could borrow it from someone and pay it back over time?

I wired 240v into my garage, and it's the best thing I could have ever done. Yeah, it wasn't cheap. But once you taste the fruits of 240v, you'll wonder how you ever did without it.

And here's the thing: do you REALLY want a digiboil, or is it just a compromise given what you think you can do? Or is there a chance you might go bigger later, and at that point, wish you'd have installed 240v?

All I'm trying to do here is complicate your decisionmaking process, and your life. :)

*******

When I wired my garage for 240v, I put in a sub-panel from which I could run whatever circuits I wanted. I ran a 60-amp circuit from the main panel to the sub-panel. In the subpanel there's a 30-amp 240v circuit for my electric brewing, a couple 20-amp 120v circuits for my chiller and my RIMS setup, and as it happened later, a 30-amp circuit for a garage heater.

The three big costs were the sub panel (about $60 IIRC), the 6-gauge wire ($110?) and the 30-amp GFCI breaker ($103). I installed most of it myself, had a friend who's an electrician make the connection in the main breaker box and the subpanel.

It's all the cat's meow. I am so glad I did it this way, knowing that if I'd settled for less I'd be kicking myself right now.

Here's one reason why. One day I was walking through Menards (home store) and saw they had 5000-watt ceiling-mounted 240-v garage heaters for....$63 after rebate. Sixty-three bucks? Are you kidding? It suddenly dawned on me that I had 240v power in my garage, I knew how to hook up a 240v appliance as I'd watched my friend do it....

It took about another $15 for BX cable to run from the sub-panel to the heater, and I had electric heat in my garage for about $80. During the winter, I can bump up the temp out there from 35 to 60, and it's nice and comfortable. I can also do other work out there. What I did was take a garage space that is otherwise not that usable in the winter, and turned it into a year-round space.

It also dawned on me that should the occasion arise, I also have 240v power in case I should ever get an electric car and want the fast charging system.

So I'm just saying....what are you going to wish you had done six months, a year from now?

****

A few pics showing what it looks like.

View attachment 637169 View attachment 637173 View attachment 637172 View attachment 637170 View attachment 637168
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree more. When I first started building my electric system I was trying to do it as cheaply as possible as I had only brewed a few times with mediocre results and wasn't convinced professional results were possible at home. All the cheap stuff I bought originally has now been replaced and was all a waste. Cheers
 
Carolina_Matt said:
Oddly enough, everybody I've spoken to has done a double-take when I mention GFCI. They say they've installed 240V outlets for years and have never done a 240V GFCI. I guess there aren't a ton of electric brewers here.
Click to expand...

The 240 volt GFCI is not really too popular in homes because other than for hot tubs, spas and now home brewers, they just are not used very much.

I think you will be glad you decided to go with a 240 volt circuit. Much more flexibility and capacity.
 
mongoose33 said:
One thing I've noticed in my brewing career is that sometimes I've made decisions that, in the short term, appear to save money, but in the long term, end up being replaced by something better. And thus the money spent in the short term is wasted.
Click to expand...

I want to echo this sentiment. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to go the cheap route to only 6 months later realize I should have spent a little more/waited to when I had the funds to do it "right." Luckily I have been able to sell most of my "mistakes" and recoup most of my cost, but I know that moving forward its quality/what I really want or wait.
 
The breaker is specific to the brand panel you have. Some are reasonable and some are obscenely expensive. If you're going 30 amp, this is the wire you want (10/3 Romex plus ground).

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-By-the-Foot-10-3-Solid-Romex-SIM
pull-CU-NM-B-W-G-Wire-63948499/204724935

The receptacle should be a NEMA 14-30R in order to futureproof.

This rabbit hole can get pretty deep. Once you have a 30 amp circuit you start thinking, why settle for a 3500w element when you can handle a 5500?
 
Bobby_M said:
The breaker is specific to the brand panel you have. Some are reasonable and some are obscenely expensive. If you're going 30 amp, this is the wire you want (10/3 Romex plus ground).

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-By-the-Foot-10-3-Solid-Romex-SIM
pull-CU-NM-B-W-G-Wire-63948499/204724935

The receptacle should be a NEMA 14-30R in order to futureproof.

This rabbit hole can get pretty deep. Once you have a 30 amp circuit you start thinking, why settle for a 3500w element when you can handle a 5500?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think everything about brewing is a rabbit hole. For just a little bit more, you can get this. Then a little bit more, you can get that. Etc.

Thanks for the note on the wiring - I'll get that one instead.

Regarding 14-30R, I'm obviously naïve about electrical work, but I figured I should get the receptacle that matches the unit I plan on buying so that it's plug-and-play? (In this case, 6-30R). If I bought the 14-30R, I assume I'd need to buy something like this to plug in my 6-30 device?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/AC-WORK...rcial-HVAC-Female-Adapter-AD1430630/310466451

Whereas if I get to the point where I ditch the Digiboil and use something that's 14-30, then I can just spend $10 and swap out for a 14-30 receptacle at that point?
 
Punx Clever said:
As a counter-point, going to a 4-pin receptacle gives you a neutral, so you can plug in a control panel that provides 2 120v circuits (pumps!) from the single 240v circuit.
Click to expand...
That's why I suggested running 4 wire to the box but no reason to install a 14-30R when his chosen appliance has a 6-30P plug currently.
 
Bobby_M said:
That's why I suggested running 4 wire to the box but no reason to install a 14-30R when his chosen appliance has a 6-30P plug currently.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty good at sticking my foot in my mouth sometimes... totally missed that the turn-key controller he was looking at was 3-wire.
 
Dland said:
You don't want a breaker rated too high for circuit, or it may not trip if there is a short, just melt the wire and risk burning the building down.
Click to expand...
That is a very important notion! ^

A breaker protects your wiring (circuit) from overloading/overheating/melting. It doesn't protect your connected appliance. That appliance should have its own [EDIT] fuses/breakers to protect certain parts. Overload protections are [EDIT] generally upstream.

A GFCI feature protects you from possible electrocution due to (unintended) connections to ground. It won't protect you when touching both of its load wires, you'd be simply a load to that circuit.
 
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Dland said:
You don't want a breaker rated too high for circuit, or it may not trip if there is a short, just melt the wire and risk burning the building down.
Click to expand...
But you could put in the thicker wiring suitable to carry 60A, which would be 4-gauge wire and may break the bill if it's any more than a few feet.
 
Carolina_Matt said:
Yeah, I think everything about brewing is a rabbit hole. For just a little bit more, you can get this. Then a little bit more, you can get that. Etc.

Thanks for the note on the wiring - I'll get that one instead.

Regarding 14-30R, I'm obviously naïve about electrical work, but I figured I should get the receptacle that matches the unit I plan on buying so that it's plug-and-play? (In this case, 6-30R). If I bought the 14-30R, I assume I'd need to buy something like this to plug in my 6-30 device?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/AC-WORK...rcial-HVAC-Female-Adapter-AD1430630/310466451

Whereas if I get to the point where I ditch the Digiboil and use something that's 14-30, then I can just spend $10 and swap out for a 14-30 receptacle at that point?
Click to expand...
not really, you cant just swap out an outlet and its good. If your panel is in the garage and your plan is to have a brew bench right by it, you CAN do it yourself .Its not hard. Just have to do it safely and make sure your main is off when you go to terminate the wires .Find out what outlet configuration you need first, buy that outlet and then you can determine what your power need is and buy the appropriate size 4 wire cable (3 conductors with ground.) If I had to guess it'd be 6 or 8 gauge . Lowe's sometimes has small lengths of remnant cable for sale ,so you don't have to buy an entire roll you wont ever use again. Get 10 ft ,it'll be plenty if the distance from the panel works for you, figure 4 feet in the wall in/under the panel so you can be 6 ft away from it. If your garage is bare studs its easy . If its finished drywall its going to require you find the studs below the panel and cut that out to access and run the cable through holes you'll need to drill through the studs to where your bench will be. After that its placing the outlet box ,leave 4-6 inches of slack inside the box ,hooking up both ends(black and red go to X and Y on the back of the outlet,its embossed and doesn't matter which color goes to which pole just pick one, white goes to its own and the ground goes to its own), making sure the connections are tight and grounds are attached where they should. close it up , and either patch the drywall permanently or make a removable panel in case you want to run more later. Yes, its that easy.
 
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IslandLizard said:
But you could put in the thicker wiring suitable to carry 60A, which would be 4-gauge wire and may break the bill if it's any more than a few feet.
Click to expand...

assuming romex and no weird derate factors like high ambient heat, you can run #6 on a 60 amp breaker but would be limited to 55 amp of load.

Bobby_M said:
The cost of 4 gauge wire will definitely offset the savings on the breaker.
Click to expand...

even assuming #6, the cost difference is significant compared to #10, about double the cost (assuming romex)
 
a 60a servvice is really no less safe than the typical 50a services which are most commoly used by 240v brewers who are normally only using like 25 amps of that service... the gfci portion of it works the same and trips the same whether your drawing 50a or 2 amps... this is no different than plugging an appliance like a lamp that only draws 2 amps into a household circuit that is wired for and protected by a 15 amp breaker... think about it.
In an ideal world the control panel of the device you intend on using absolutely should have its own fused or circuit breaker protected circuits inside...

I use a $60 50a gfci spa panel from the home depot mounted on the wall next to my panel (for gfci protection and a main disconnect near my brewing equipment) along with a $20 30a breaker inside my main panel for my 30a circuit in my house.

Realistically, a much smaller 20a 240v circuit is actually plenty to run one of those all in one systems like the anvil 240v setups... 20a will power a 4500w element with no problems. And before anyone brings it up the 80% rules for wiring absolutely does not apply here as the element will not be on at 100% power for 3 hrs continuously, thats where that rule comes into play.

I see lots of 50a gfci breakers for under $50 on ebay right now but like Bobby M said, it really depends on the type of breaker your main panel uses.

I bought two 60a spa panels and removed the breakers from them and had the electrician install them in my main panel at the brewpub because they were cheaper that way than buying just a replacement breaker.. (my panel there uses 2 60a feeds)

if you really only plan on running an all in one setup I would have a small 20a circuit installed.. should be the cheapest and be plenty for them.
 
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I'll try to have at least 30a, just in case I decide to upgrade to a 5500W element at that point. I'm thinking it might make the most sense to get a 50a gfci breaker. I did check ebay, but a lot of them are used and I'd rather get a new one (or a Used - Like New from Amazon, which is essentially just a dented box item).

If I decide to go the 50a route, I suppose this wire wouldn't suffice since it's rated for 30a? If so, which would you guys recommend? The outlet will be within 2-3 feet of the panel in my garage, so I won't have to buy much wire and I'm not too concerned if the cost per foot is a little higher.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...x-SIMpull-CU-NM-B-W-G-Wire-63948499/204724935
 
Carolina_Matt said:
I'll try to have at least 30a, just in case I decide to upgrade to a 5500W element at that point. I'm thinking it might make the most sense to get a 50a gfci breaker. I did check ebay, but a lot of them are used and I'd rather get a new one (or a Used - Like New from Amazon, which is essentially just a dented box item).

If I decide to go the 50a route, I suppose this wire wouldn't suffice since it's rated for 30a? If so, which would you guys recommend? The outlet will be within 2-3 feet of the panel in my garage, so I won't have to buy much wire and I'm not too concerned if the cost per foot is a little higher.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...x-SIMpull-CU-NM-B-W-G-Wire-63948499/204724935
Click to expand...
you can use a standard 30a breaker in the main panel and essentually use the spa panel would be used for gfci protection only and as a remote main shutoff if you went that route but honestly its kind of a wash. Depending on your main panel type.. heres a new 30a gfci breaker. theres a few from different sellers.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-...514722?hash=item2622bc2c62:g:QPkAAOSwFKddOjPv

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Circui...735&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
 
If you put the 50a GFCI breaker in a separate box after the 30a breaker in your main panel, you can use 10g. Solid wire sucks to work with. If it's just a few feet, spring for stranded.

Used GFCI breakers are a bad idea. They have a life span, and lord only knows what you'll get from Ebay.
 
heres a used 2 pole one that comes with a 1 year warranty for $30 and the seller has over 3,000 sales with 99.9% positive feedback..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Westinghouse-QC-QCL2030G-2-POLE-120-240V-30-AMP-C-QCL-GROUND-FAULT/183854801529?epid=8026478761&_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item2ace99a279:g:360AAOSwpLVb9EVZ&enc=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&checksum=183854801529b50008764a2547899d37273600265580

heres a new cutler hammer style for $75

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eaton-Cutl...311227&hash=item4d51d674e1:g:ctsAAOSwA3dYcXHX

and a new seimenns style for $56
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SIEMENS-QF...936181?hash=item340e1aca75:g:ucYAAOSw5uJdHVql

all 30a
 
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I actually have two brand new 60a 2pole square d style gfci breakers I bought by mistake before learning they were the wrong type.. one is in the box and one isnt.. I would sell them for $80 for the boxed one and $70 for the one without packaging if anyone is interested..
 
Carolina_Matt said:
I'll try to have at least 30a, just in case I decide to upgrade to a 5500W element at that point. I'm thinking it might make the most sense to get a 50a gfci breaker. I did check ebay, but a lot of them are used and I'd rather get a new one (or a Used - Like New from Amazon, which is essentially just a dented box item).

If I decide to go the 50a route, I suppose this wire wouldn't suffice since it's rated for 30a? If so, which would you guys recommend? The outlet will be within 2-3 feet of the panel in my garage, so I won't have to buy much wire and I'm not too concerned if the cost per foot is a little higher.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...x-SIMpull-CU-NM-B-W-G-Wire-63948499/204724935
Click to expand...
re-read my post
 
Carolina_Matt said:
I'll try to have at least 30a, just in case I decide to upgrade to a 5500W element at that point. I'm thinking it might make the most sense to get a 50a gfci breaker. I did check ebay, but a lot of them are used and I'd rather get a new one (or a Used - Like New from Amazon, which is essentially just a dented box item).

If I decide to go the 50a route, I suppose this wire wouldn't suffice since it's rated for 30a? If so, which would you guys recommend? The outlet will be within 2-3 feet of the panel in my garage, so I won't have to buy much wire and I'm not too concerned if the cost per foot is a little higher.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...x-SIMpull-CU-NM-B-W-G-Wire-63948499/204724935
Click to expand...
The wire size is what dictates the max capacity in amps you can use on that circuit. The upstream breaker cannot be larger than the wire's capacity.

If you use 10gauge wire, you need a 30 amp breaker upstream. It cannot be 50 or 60.
 

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