A bunch of Lambic/Kriek/Framboise questions

[Yourrealdad]

First, I apologize. I know that I need to research and look this stuff up, and I have to some extent. However, I am also pretty limited on time and just hoping to get some quick answers, so thank you.

I am about to bottle up to 30G of Lambic to make some Gueuze, fruited beers, and straight Lambic. 10G for each of the past three years. So a few questions that I haven't found definitive answers to.

1. Ratios:
I am obviously going to taste and try to blend to the best of my abilities, but what is the general ratio of Lambics in a Gueuze? I have read that it is often mostly the 3rd year with then some 1st and 2nd added. I have also read that it is mostly 1 year with some 2nd and then a little 3rd. Tilquin I believe is only 1st and 2nd or at least they were.

1.2: What to do with the left over beer?:

Additionally I have read that Krieks and Framboise are usually 1st year Lambics, so say my blend goes the route of mostly 1st year/2nd year and I have a bunch of 3rd year left over, will this be good for Fruited beers or should I bottle it as straight Lambic?

2. Yeast:
Do I need to add some yeast for bottle conditioning? I have read that the 1st and even 2nd year Lambics usually have active yeast that can ferment the bottling sugars that are added, so is there enough active if I make the Gueuze? I have a package of CBC-1 just in case. Any particular amount if needed?

2.2: Do I need to add any yeast to the fruited beers when I add the fruit? Seems like answer is no?

3. Fruit:

How much should I add? I am seeing 1-2# of tart cherries per gallon for Kriek and about 1# of raspberries per gallon for Framboise. Does this sound right?
How much space does this usually take up in the carboy?
Do I just pitch the fruit right back in the carboy or should I rack everything to a new one?

Cherries seem expensive: Do these look ok?
https://www.bakersauthority.com/pro...fO_ay_oNbbHMW03ABz44cJER4R7NZZohoCaJ0QAvD_BwE

4. CO2

If there is a lot of head space in the carboys after blending and such should I put CO2 down? Is the easiest way to take a keg connection off and then put the gas hose in the carboy?

Thank you for the help and looking forward to this bottling a lot.

 

[Dirty25]

1. Ratios are dependent on tastes but you want to make sure you have enough residual sugars to carb. If all of your lambic is the same methods and yeast you want to make sure with the additions of 1&2 year lambic you have enough carb sugar. Some of my blends have taken 6 months to carbonate but when done are great.

2. Not in my experience
2.2. No

3. 2# cherries is my minimum, I can’t remember for raspberries...If it’s to fruity blend in some extra lambic. I rack to a new carboy, not sure of the space but somewhere around .75 gallons maybe. Cherries are expensive but I love Kriek.

4. I wouldn’t want to much headspace. Even with airlocks it will oxidize and might not be great. If you have a few car boys with odds and ends lambic, I would rack them together to keep the headspace minimal.

 

[RPh_Guy]

1 & 1.2 - I also suggest you let your own taste be your guide. The ratios used by commercial breweries are influenced by economical factors. If you add priming sugar rather than relying on residual sugar in young lambic then you have more options.

2 - Many brewers/breweries add fresh yeast for bottling to ensure faster, consistent carbonation without changing the character too much, but this is only if you're adding priming sugar. Pitch 10% of what you'd use for fermentation.

 

[Yourrealdad]

So should I not be adding any priming sugar? I have to think to get around 3 volumes of carbonation requires the addition of sugars?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

400g/l sticks in the memory from when I asked a Belgian brewer about their aged kriek - so their premium product, in which I imagine they were using traditional Schaerbeek cherries which are notorious for their low flesh:stone ratio. Jeff Sparrow suggests 240-300g/l is typical, which is in that 2-2.5lb/US gal region. He implies start with 2lb of any fruit and see how it goes.

Oude kriek is awesome, so if you have old beer to hand the way this brewery would do it would be to soak 400g/l in their old beer for 6 months in a wooden barrel, and then blend it with ?I think ~10-20% young beer. But it's a different product to the typical mass-market krieks.

 

[RPh_Guy]

So should I not be adding any priming sugar? I have to think to get around 3 volumes of carbonation requires the addition of sugars?

http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Packaging
Not surprisingly MTF has a lot of good info.

 

[Dirty25]

3 vols of carbonation seems high to me. Most younger gueuze and fruit lambics have far lower, some are just slightly carbed. You don’t normally see that much carbonation until the bottle has been sitting a while.

I normally naturally don’t use corn sugar to carbonate but it’s an option. Fruit lambics will have enough unfermented sugar after 1 month maturation to get a healthy carbonation. With gueuze I shoot for enough sugars in the young part to get carbonation.

 

[jfolks]

Traditional ratio is : 60% 1 year, 30% 2 year, 10% 3 year.

Yes, reyeast with 2 g CBC1 per 5 gal of bottled beer.

May wish to add Brett when fruiting to encourage refermentation.