55 Gallon Drums

[henkyjenky]

If you're using 55 gallon drums to brew in, do they have to be stainless steel? As opposed to just steel.

If so, any ideas where to get the stainless ones? They aren't cheap.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Scrap yards, maybe?

I would guess that home built one barrel systems tend to use them a lot.

 

[henkyjenky]

Any thickness requirements or concerns?

Let's say after purchasing and modifying they come out to 75% of the cost of Blichmanns. Which would you go with?

Thanks.

 

[RegionalChaos]

55g SS drums new cost about the same as a 55g boilermaker. At least when I was pricing things a few months back, that is what I found. If anyone knows of a cheap source for 55g SS drums I'm all ears.

 

[henkyjenky]

55g SS drums new cost about the same as a 55g boilermaker. At least when I was pricing things a few months back, that is what I found. If anyone knows of a cheap source for 55g SS drums I'm all ears.

I'm finding the same thing. However, also finding some cheaper reconditioned ones around the country.

 

[Kruuuger]

Overall, you can save by using 55G drums vs. the 55G BM's....you just have to find good deals. To answer your question, YES has to be stainless steel, so it's compatable with food/beverage and I believe the thickness should be 16gauge. I remember reading around HBT and seeing a few guys getting them real cheap. I even remember a guy getting 10 of them for $50 a piece. I was able to get 3 of them with lids for $500 a few weeks ago, but didn't have the beans. wish i did.....

 

[henkyjenky]

Thanks Kruuuger! Great first post.

 

[ajwillys]

I have one I'm looking to sell but I think Arizona is too far to ship to make it worthwhile. I found 10 of them on craigslist.... basically stole 'em from the guy. Already sold 5 and and am looking to more one more.

 

[henkyjenky]

A bit too far, but thanks!

So, did you put the ones you kept to good use?

 

[Kruuuger]

haha...i was going to mention it, but figured i'd leave it be. I've been lurking around this site for about 7 months learning and taking notes. I plan to be around giving as my info as i can, while hopefully taking my knowledge to the next level. but thanks again

 

[ajwillys]

So, did you put the ones you kept to good use?

Working on it! Still building the stand and getting all the parts, fittings, etc... Just got the 32 tip burners the other day. Haven't fired 'em up yet but hope to soon. Also, need to get the pump (peristaltic) up and running and the chiller... basically rebuilding our entire system from scratch, except 10 times the size and on a shoestring budget. So far, the money we've made from selling the barrels has us at negative dollars still

 

[Kruuuger]

AJ,

Im in the same boat. Building a whole new system. I've been brewing in the kitchen from the start, up to 8 gal batches. but figure it's time to bring it outside. I was gonna go the keggle route (brutus clone) but figured that in time, i'd want to get to the next step and go bigger. I'm trying to avoid large costs later by putting a little extra out now. The stand I built is made for the dimensions of a 55g barrel (23in) but i'm building inner support for smaller pots/keggles. I have alot of questions that i'm sure i'll ask in time but starting, whats your take on the 23/32tip burner vs a banjo in regards to a 55 gal system. I'm leaning towards the banjo, only because the reviews i've read slightly lean in favor of the banjo/hurricane. Second, since your using a pump, are you increasing the inner diameter of the piping/hoses/fittings? what size? i've read that based off flow rates of march pumps, it can take quite some time to pump large quantites of wort/water...

and last question for now...what are you doing about site gauges. I was thinking of reaching out to Bobby M to make a larger one than the standard kettle height.

cheers

 

[henkyjenky]

All great questions!

 

[ajwillys]

I should preface my answers by letting you know that I have not used this system at all and have no idea if what I'm planning will work. These are just my thoughts and the reasons behind them.

I have alot of questions that i'm sure i'll ask in time but starting, whats your take on the 23/32tip burner vs a banjo in regards to a 55 gal system.

I currently use the hurricane. It certainly doesn't have enough BTU's for that size. It's great for 5 and 10 gallon batches though. From what I've heard, the banjo is the same except uses high pressure LP (I use NG on my Hurricane). I haven't tried it in that configuration but the extra gas would kick it up I'm sure. I do LOVE my Hurricane, mostly because its completely silent and it runs NG. I haven't refilled a propane tank in over a year! We went with the 32 tip because it has a ton of power and can run NG since they are low pressure. The fuel selection (NG, LP, electric) makes a big difference in your bottom line when your throwing that many BTU's around. Cheap to run, cheap to buy, and lots of power, that was how I decided.

Second, since your using a pump, are you increasing the inner diameter of the piping/hoses/fittings? what size? i've read that based off flow rates of march pumps, it can take quite some time to pump large quantites of wort/water...

Probably should be but not really. We have a three channel peristaltic pump that runs at a max of 2 gallons per minute per channel with 3/8" ID silicone. We can run the channels simultaneously, such as when fly sparging water from the HLT while pumping wort to the BK, independently since one can run dry while the others are still working, or they can work together for a max of 6 GPM transfer. We'll use this configuration for the bulk transfers, such as BK to fermentor. The plate chiller we're using is freakin' giant (at least 3-4 times the size as the Therminator) so we expect to be able to go full tilt into the fermentor and still cool properly.

and last question for now...what are you doing about site gauges. I was thinking of reaching out to Bobby M to make a larger one than the standard kettle height.
cheers

Haven't totally thought it through yet as we are still going through selecting parts, but leaning towards a plain old hose barb connected to a semi-clear, flexible hose, probably silicone. This is pretty much what I've seen at alot of micros and it works well. The markings are on the kettle so it doesn't matter if its straight up and down. It has the added benefit of cleanibilty (one of the most important factors) since its easily removed and is cheap/easy. It's what I use currently on my 15 gallon pot. I just hook a hose up to the barb, thread it through the handle and open the valve... instant sight glass.

 

[ChshreCat]

What about this?
http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/material-handling/drum-barrel/drums-pails/55-gallon-steel-drum-open-head

 

[ajwillys]

Not stainless. Not sure the paint would handle the heat/abuse. I would have serious doubts. You could possibly use it in an electric setup but I don't think I would direct fire a painted kettle. Also, any cuts/scratches would rust, obviously.

 

[ChshreCat]

Ahhh ok. Just saw them in the catalog and thought I'd throw it out.

I did find these at the same place and was intrigued...
http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/material-handling/drum-barrel/drum-heaters/drum-heater-30-gallon-steel-drum-115v-1000w

Drum heater, temp range 50-425F. How's THAT for an electric setup?

 

[henkyjenky]

Edited: Way too slow.

 

[brewpal]

I will weigh-in here as I have been down this road and my experience may be of some help to those considering a step-up.

I acquired some 55 gal drums from a small winemaker in the Willamette Valley who was going out of business. He did not realize what he had and I got them for a song. I should have got all he had at the time.

The top was cut off with a plasma cutter and a threaded fitting was welding in for a ball valve. We welded a custom stand to support the drum and accommodate a 32 tip NG burner plumbed into the house supply. Worked like a champ and we could do a good 45-50 gal boil if we were careful.

Last summer I met a professional welder who does sanitary welding for tanks of all types including brewing. I had him make a basic tank for fermenting that has a tri-clover port just off the bottom and an open top with a loose fitting lid to match, 84 gal capacity. He does quality work. Instead of pumping out to separate carboys or sankes to ferment, we just go into that one big tank.

I recently had him build me a new 80 gal boiler. Basically just a giant open kettle with a threaded fitting welded in at the bottom for a ball valve. Whole hop filtering in the kettle is achieved by a very large diameter sturdy hose braid loop. 60 gal can be boiled with plenty of "freeboard" so boilover risk is minimal.

55 gal drums are great, but I found the seam on the inside where the side meets the bottom was a bit hard to clean to my satisfaction. They are manageable for one person to move around and if they could be had for a good deal, I would highly recommend them. I used one as a mash tun for a while before finding a jacketed steam kettle and it worked great for that. I still use one as an additional fermenter and am able to boil water in it to sanitize the inside bottom seam.

If anybody in the Willamette Valley needs the info on the welder, pm me. He is a great guy and easy to work with and really does great work. He has built 20 barrel uni-tanks for a small start-up in the area and they are very pleased with his work.

Pics:
Burner stand with 32 tip NG burner
Sparging with the 55 drum boiler
New 84 gal fermenter tank
New 80 gal boiler tank
SS braid hop filter

 

[henkyjenky]

Wow!


I need to find a sanitary welder.

 

[csquires1]

Brewpal, that fermenter is sexy! When you were using 55 gal drums for brew kettle, how long did it take you to get to boil temp, and was it with the burner I see here in the pic?

 

[ajwillys]

Brewpal, that fermenter is sexy! When you were using 55 gal drums for brew kettle, how long did it take you to get to boil temp, and was it with the burner I see here in the pic?

+1, definitely interested in that answer! Also, what is the difference from your burner to the drums?


Also, it seems your main concern with the drums is cleaning the seam. I take it you were using them as a fermentor? I've heard from others as well that this is not a great idea. We're using ours strictly for HLT, MLT, and BK. We have a fourth one that will be used as a secondary HLT for back-to-back brews.

 

[brewpal]

We start up the burner about 1/3 of the way into the sparge so by the time we are done collecting our target volume it does not take much longer to reach a boil. The burner and stand built for the 55 gal drum fits the new boiler just fine. No mods needed.

The inside seam of course is sanitized during the boil, but I did not like how hard it was sometimes to clean. Other drums may have a different construction and it may not be as much of an issue. Mine originally held coke syrup from 50 years ago.

The drum that was not used as the boiler still is used as a fermenter. I boil water in the bottom that sanitizes the bottom seam, coupler, and valve in addition to circulated sanitizer through it. Has worked well like that for a year now. The lid is a food grade plastic drum cover with a bit of saran wrap to keep any fruit flies from finding their way inside. I can comfortably get 45 gallons inside with enough head room to ferment without any blow-off. Fermenters are gravity drained to corny kegs after 3 weeks. Yeast is collected by agitating the drum and the last couple of gallons of beer and draining to a corny for re-use.

 

[Kruuuger]

brewpal,

This is all great info.

Do you have any pro's/cons on the overall system. I'm currently concerned with the overall flow rate. recirculating doesn't seem to be a problem, but do you ever wish you had larger fittings for increased flow rates. I want to move up to 55g drum system, but am trying to tackle all the issues/time wasters before hand. with regular ball valve/quick disconnects, i can see it taking a while to move all this liquid around.

 

[brewpal]

I use 1/2" piping on all fittings and hose barbs with silicone tubing. Yes, it takes longer to move 55 gal than it would with 10 gal, but the other limits I have are a standard march pump and shirron plate chiller. I don't think larger tubes, pipes and valves would increase the flow with the limitations of the pump and chiller. Pumping out 55 gal through the plate chiller with cold water takes 45-60 min.

When heating strike water I weigh and mill grain. When sparging I prep the fermenter. During chilling bits and pieces of gear are put away. Slave labor is employed to scoop the mash and scrub the boiler.

If you work with some partners who will split the batch, it makes sense to go bigger. Plus, it is just plain fun to see that much wort boiling at the same time.

Good luck.

 

[Kruuuger]

all valid points....

i guess the lag time while pumping is good time to just get other stuff done/prep....overall it would be nicer to go a little larger and cut times down...when needed, but probably not worth the cost.

thanks for the advise. i'm sure i'll have more questions to come.

 

[Kruuuger]

so here's my next question...

With a 55gal system(3 drum, single tier), I can make tons of wort and as long as I have a drinking crew that creates a demand for it, i'm good. but what about those times where i'm gonna be testing out new beer recipes. what if i want to make 15 gals, or even 10....the question is, where along the process will a 55 gal brew system cause problems? I dont see any problems with the HLT or BK...in fact, boil time will be nothin. Yes, there's the issue of scorching the BK, but i'll control the flame. The only issue i see is with the MLT... I cant imagine getting a great efficiency with only 20-25lbs of grain, in a tank with a 23 in wide diameter....anyone agree? the only solution i can see is to have two MLT's. the 55 gal drum for =/> 15gal, and having a keggle MLT for anything less than 15 gal.

comments/suggestions please....

 

[brewpal]

I still have my original converted keg kettles and occasionally use them for just the purpose you describe. I had some left over angle iron and made some supports to put the kettle on the NG burner. I lot easier than hauling out the camp chef and getting a propane refill.

It is actually pretty rare I do that. Once you get your routine down, making a large quantity is not much more effort and if you have some experience formulating recipes, it all turns out good and someone will drink it.

We also occasionally will split the batch into some carboys and try different yeast strains.

 

[ajwillys]

Yeah, I don't think you'd want to go smaller than 20 gallons on a system like that. Keep your current stuff for sure!

 

[ajwillys]

Hey brewpal, do you mind telling me what the difference is between your burners and bottom of the drum?

 

[brewpal]

If you mean distance from burner to kettle bottom, it is about 6 inches.

 

[kitemanks]

http://abbeydrum.com/ has SS 55 open top drums and some 20 gal closed top. Just a FYI ask for the used ones.

 

[GC89]

How many gallon is your steam kettle? I just picked up one that is very similar but is tippable in adition to the bottom drain. I'v been trying to get info to plan out the size of the rest of my new sytem accordingly

 

[brewpal]

42 gallons to the rim. I can comfortably mash 100 lbs, 110 if I am a little careful.

Good luck.

 

[GC89]

So with a 100lb mash you can pull off around a 40 finished gallon batch size with your mlt capacity. Is the 80 gallon boil kettle for safety room or so you can do a double mash and a larger 60+ gallon batch? Do you have a thread on your set up or more pictures? Im interested in your process and what kind of efficiency your getting out of it. Mine is a "40 gallon" kettle as well, not sure what the actual volume is though.

 

[brewpal]

Last batch was 100 lbs grain with a pre-boil volume of 60 gal. OG was 1.055. I expect to get about 50 gal of finished beer. The thirsty brew-crew will make short work of that soon. Not sure what the efficiency is.

Pics on p. 2 of this thread pretty much illustrate the show. The 80 gal pot gives me plenty of room to boil 60 gal without boil-over worries.