50A spa panel on 30A circuit - Single 5500W element

[bigpapakielbasa]

I am in the middle of building my eBIAB basement brewery and am now ready to run electrical circuit. Long story short I have been gifted a brand new 50A spa panel. I will only be using one 5500 watt element, exhaust fan, and a chugger pump off of this circuit.

My question here is should I couple the 50A spa panel to a 50A breaker in my main panel or would I be fine with a 30A breaker in the main panel since I know I will not be overloading the circuit. I have a 100' roll of 10/3 romex from a previous project so for me it seems wasteful to shell out big bucks for 6 gauge when I know that will be completely over kill. I hate to waste this spa panel also.

Has anyone out there ran 10/3 wire with a 50A spa panel?

Keep in mind, I will remove all the wiring and spa panel when I move so there will be no danger or confusion for the next owners. And I also know this is against all electrical codes and practice. Just trying to save a few dollars here when I can.

 

[dcbw]

30A breaker is fine. You're only using the spa panel for the GFI properties anyway, and those will work fine. I have this same configuration, since 50A spa panels are the standard and thus cheaper.

 

[dcbw]

And I don't think it's against code at all? As long as the outlet you wire up is a 30A one I don't think anyone cares if the wiring between the breaker and outlet is heavier gauge than necessary.

 

[homebrew57]

Agreed with dcbw above. Mine is run this way too and so are many others on this forum. You can look an many setups on here that are set up the same exact way.

 

[kpr121]

Under normal circumstances if you were running a new line I would suggest 50A just for the expandability. But since you already have the 10/3 I say go with the 30A.

And agreed with others, you’ll be fine with the 50A SPA panel (with 30AMP supply power cord) as long as the outlet itself is a 30Amp type.

Seems obvious but I’ll just say it this way: Don’t install a permanent 50A outlet in the wall on a 30A circuit. If you put a 30A dryer outlet in and install a 30A dryer cord as your SPA panel power supply you will be completely up to code. Mount the spa panel so its not a 'permanent fixture' and can be removed. You should have nothing to worry about as far as that goes, as long as the connection between breaker and outlet is installed correctly.

Thats awesome you're going to have a 220v GFI protected line ran for basically dirt cheap (are you running it yourself?)

Disclaimer: all my opinions, dont trust anything you read on the internet.

 

[muhteeus]

The 30A in your panel will protect the #10 romex you are using. Should be safe.

 

[augiedoggy]

as others stated.. use the 30 amp breaker in the main panel and you'll be fine with the 50a spa panel providing both a gfci function and an extra kill switch if mounted near the brew panel... unless you OCD there is nothing wrong with this setup... Its exactly what I use myself...

Someone should create a sticky on this because this question comes up every couple weeks at least...

 

[bigpapakielbasa]

Thanks guys. I probably should of done some more reading on here. I did not realize how many people run this setup.

I just wasn't sure if the breaker had to match the Spa panel rating. Just want to make sure that the GFI properties will not be compromised.

I will be running this myself (I have installed breakers and ran circuits before. And I will shut down the whole panel before playing with this much power) but if I get into a pinch, I do have electrician/lineman/Electrical Engineer friends available.

 

[bigpapakielbasa]

Dirt cheap is right, too. Buddy never turned his hot tub project into a reality and a six pack easily got me the spa panel. The romex was left over from running a 30A line to a buddy's garage.

My family owns a small hardware store so a lot of the stuff I need, I can get at cost. 😁

 

[jeffmeh]

And for extra HBT credit, if you wire the 50a spa panel at 30a, take a black sharpie, and write "Wired for 30a Max" prominently on the spa panel.

 

[limulus]

I knew I wasted a perfectly good setup! I already had a spa panel on my deck and I got rid of the spa last summer. I could have pulled that super expensive and thick cable back through the conduit and ran it into my garage. But instead, I had another line run to a simple dryer element and then spent $150 on a proper GFCI to plug the 5500w element into from the brewery power control box. I wish this thread had come a month earlier.

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

And for extra HBT credit, if you wire the 50a spa panel at 30a, take a black sharpie, and write "Wired for 30a Max" prominently on the spa panel.

As jeffmeh said, make sure you label it this way.

As everyone else said, with 10ga wire you must use a 30amp breaker at the main box for the sub-panel branch. It will protect the sub-panel box circuit itself. The 50a breaker will never trip for an overload, but will protect you with it's GFCI.

Be aware that the 50 amp GFCI breaker will only protect GFCI for the 240v circuit wired off of it directly. It does not protect the whole spa panel box if you add more breakers/circuits on it.

I have a Midwest Electric Spa Panel and it has the ability to add 4 additional single breakers, in addition to the 50 Amp GFCI one. These breakers and their circuits are not protected by the 50 amp GFCI breaker. They all connect to the same buss bars. They will still trip the main box's 30 amp breaker if you overload the sub panel circuit itself. You can/should protect these additional circuits with GFCI Outlets.

I did run a couple 120v/20a circuits off my spa panel box, one on each leg of the 240v. They are real handy for other stuff when I am not brewing. They both have 2 standard 20 amp GFCI outlets with an L5-20 twist lock outlet chained off it.

Wired this way you could run a one 4500W-240v element and a 1150w-120V element (a 4500w element run at 120v) at the same time and still draw under 30 amps. So, you could have an HLT and RIMs running at the same time (28.75 amps draw at full power).

 

[shigadeyo]

My apologies for resurrecting a 3.5 year old thread, but I believe that this particular thread is very apropos to my situation and is one of the best I have found on the topic...

After many, many years of brewing the "old school" way (3 tier, gravity fed, propane), I have decided to try something new and start converting over to electric. I just bought a new pump to do HERMS for the mash and am considering an induction cookup for the kettle. I typically brew on my deck and have 120V GFCI outlet available there for the pump, etc. The induction cooktop I am looking at is 3500W and requires 220V 20A. I was either going to run a new circuit (12/2 with ground) near to the back inside of the house or take over the old range circuit that's 8/3 no ground (maybe it's 6/3, hard to say as the sheathing is the old braided type and not labeled) since the range is now gas and 220V 20A doesn't have a neutral. Either way, I would put a 20A 220V breaker in the main electrical box for the new circuit or to replace the 30A range circuit. The original plan was to use an appropriate extension cord to go from the induction cooktop outside to the new outlet inside. However, the circuit isn't GFCI, so that seems to be a problem/safety concern.

Therefore, I probably need to install a spa or RV panel with GFCI. RV panels are nice because they are GFCI and already have additional circuits. The existing old range circuit could be fitted with a receptacle and used to get the 220V feed to the panel, but unfortunately there is no ground wire. Not ideal and not proper if the panel is hardwired to that circuit. I could run a separate ground wire back to the box, I suppose. I only have 12/2 w/ ground and 10/2 w/ ground on hand, so I will likely need to get some 10/3 with ground and run a new 220V 30A circuit to the spa/RV panel and then use 220V 20A outlet and maybe add a 110V 20A GFCI expansion circuit in the panel as well to cover everything. If I leave everything inside, I could use extension cords to go from outside to the new panel. Given that necessity since I don't want to punch it through the wall to the exterior, I also have an old electric dryer circuit that is 8/3 with ground that I could use. I would replace the existing 3 prong receptacle with a newer 4 prong and use a dryer cord to power the panel and therefore make it a "non-permanent" installation. I would still need to run extension cords from the deck to the new "portal" subpanel inside, but that would also give me flexibility to brew inside in the basement in the winter.

So, I was interested in people's thoughts on the following:

1. Is GFCI necessary for the induction cooktop if plugged into an outlet not in the brewing area? If so, then:

2. Does the following plan make sense? Induction cooktop (220V 20A) plug --> appropriate extension cord --> 220V 20A outlet in 50A/60A spa/RV panel (with or without extra 110V GFCI circuit) --> 4 prong appliance plug --> 220V 40A dryer circuit --> main panel. I would clearly label the box with the appropriate incoming amperage from the main panel.

Hope all of that makes sense. The spa/RV panel adds cost, but safety as well and would give me flexibility to expand my electric brewing options later, as well. Thanks for the help!

 

[doug293cz]

Any electrical device used in a wet area should be fed from a GFCI protected source. Doesn't matter if the outlet is in a dry area, as you're going to be working with electricity in the wet area.

Brew on