4500 watt element too big for 2.5 gal BIAB?

[chemando]

Hello, I am new to the forum and fairly new to brewing. I have brewed some 1 gallon stove top BIAB batches and am looking to step up to a small eBIAB system for 2.5 - 3 gallon batches. My plan is to go with a 7.5 - 8 gallon kettle.

Based on strike and pre-boil volumes for this batch size a 2000 watt elements seems to be adequate. But I have not seen a 120v 2000 watt ULWD option? The Rheem SP10868GL is 2000 watt but is LWD. The Blichmann 2000 watt boil coil would be the other option but an expensive one.

I also have access to 240v if I install a spa panel for gfci protection. Would the Camco 4500 watt ULWD ripple element be too many watts for a small batch system? I haven't picked out a kettle yet but this element might not fit in most of the options. For example the Anvil 7.5 gallon kettle has a diameter of 12.75".

Any advice on element sizing and options would be helpful.

Thanks.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

How to do you plan on controlling the element? If you are planning on just on/off for the element, then yes 4.5kw is overkill. However, if you plan on integrating any sort of element control, 4.5kw is great.

4.5kw It is not "necessary" to reach temps for batches that size, but you will reach them quicker. I am a firm believer to run as large an element as possible, because you can always throttle the power down. But on a small element, your max output is fixed and cannot be exceeded. Also, if the desire to brew larger batches ever occurs, voila, your are in business.

Since it seems you have access to 30a 240v relatively easily, 4.5kw (or 5.5kw) is the direction I would take.

 

[chemando]

Thanks! Yes, I am planning a PID controller and re-circulation pump. I was just concerned that for some reason the 4500 watt would be too "big" since even with a controller the element is either fully on or off. There is no actual control of the power output of the element.

For a 7.5 gal pot I think the 4500 and 5500 ripple elements will be too long.

It looks like Camco makes 240v ULWD foldback elements in 2500 watt, 3500 watt and 4500 watt that are shorted than the ripple style elements. Models 2903, 2913 and 2923. These might be a the best option for me if I go 240v.

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks! Yes, I am planning a PID controller and re-circulation pump. I was just concerned that for some reason the 4500 watt would be too "big" since even with a controller the element is either fully on or off. There is no actual control of the power output of the element.

If your pid has the manual pwm control than you in fact can and do effectively control its power output in boil mode when you set it for say 60%. If its configured correctly it pulses the power for say 60% of every second preventing the element from reaching full temp. Thats how pwm controllers control the speed of dc motors and pumps as well as light dimmers for leds.. Yes they are full On/Off but done quickly in a way that limits the overall effectiveness of the device your controlling.

 

[Bobby_M]

Augie is right but I'll add a bit more. Controllers with PWM pulse (manual) mode come with various fixed or adjustable duty cycles. Something like the Auber DSPR120 does have PWM control and at a reasonable duty cycle of 1.4 seconds meaning if you set it to 50% power output the element is on for .7 seconds and off for .7 seconds. This is fast enough to see it as a smooth rolling boil rather than surge, surge, surge. I have seen some PID units that can only get down to 2 second duty cycle minimum which does get a little closer to surging at lower power settings.

You can definitely get away with a 120v element for a 3 gallon boil though. I have a 9" long 2250w ULWD foldback element that would work well. You'll need a 20amp circuit but everything is cheaper in that voltage/current than 240v especially the GFCI breaker.
If you're wondering, 2250 will take 4 gallons up 80F in 21 minutes. From mash temps to boil, assuming about 3.5 gallons, will take 16 minutes. Assuming typical mash and boil times, you're looking at a 21+60+21+60+15= 177 minute brew day not accounting for unintentional pauses and dilly dally.

 

[chemando]

Thanks guys, for confirming how the controllers limit the power. An SSR is just a switch so the element is either on or off but because of of the fast duty cycle it is essentially acting at a lower power rate overall.

Now I just need to decide on an element. The Camco 240v models 2903, 2913 and 2923 are listed as ULWD on Camco's website but I have read a few people saying that they don't believe this is correct.

Do you know what model/brand your 9" 2250w ULWD foldback is? This sounds like it would be ideal. Staying to 120v would be the cheapest, Spa Panels is Canada are quite expensive.

For a 2.5 gallon batch I would probably want to put about 2.8 gallon into the fermentor to account for some losses. Assuming 1 gallon boil off this puts me at 3.8 gallon pre boil. Strike water volume would be about 4.3 gallon for no-sparge BIAB.

 

[chemando]

Sorry, just found it:

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element2250_tc.htm

 

[Br3w4u]

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Camco-02963-5500W-240VAC-ultra-low-watt-density-ULWD-RIPP-element

 

[chemando]

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/Camco-02963-5500W-240VAC-ultra-low-watt-density-ULWD-RIPP-element

That would definitely make for a quick brew day. But at 13.5" I don't think it would fit in most 7.5 gallon kettles.

 

[augiedoggy]

besides all the 4500w and 5500w ulwd ripple options out there starting at as little as $25 shipped for all stainless, there are options for ULWD 240v lower power elements too... like these..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dernord-24...346481?hash=item1a397879b1:g:I3wAAOSw3fZaJb0Z

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dernord-2-Inch-OD64-Tri-clamp-240V-3500W-Foldback-Heating-Element-Electric-
Water/162856717773?hash=item25eb044dcd:g:1XwAAOSwUH5aX1Q6 (about 11" would be in the kettle)
for your application though, a 120v element like bobby recommends will fit in the kettle and be more versatile..

 

[augiedoggy]

That would definitely make for a quick brew day. But at 13.5" I don't think it would fit in most 7.5 gallon kettles.

They bend fairly easily...

 

[golfindia]

Yeah, just bend It. I've squished the S shaped ones to fit in turkey fryer pots.