3rd brew, wanting to switch to AG

[dawn_kiebawls]

Hey guys and gals, I have 2 brews under my belt. The first, an extract kit, turned out drinkable. Not as bad as I feared. For the second batch, I got full of myself and decided to try making my own recipe for some reason. Its dry hopping right now, but my gravity sample tastes like jet fuel...Brewersfriend said it would come out to ~7% but its looking more like 8.5-9..Oh well, lesson learned!

Anyway, I've been wanting to switch to AG for the variety of recipes, at my LHBS grain is cheaper than DME (not sure if it is everywhere in general), recipe customizability and I want to be cool! lol

In the next week or so I'm going to assemble my mash tun from a 10g rubbermaid. Is there a benefit to the cylindrical coolers, or the large rectangular ones? Eventually I'd like to be making big IPAs and porters/stouts for SWMBO so I'm concerned a 10g mash tun won't be capable of holding a 20lb grain bill. I'm in a 900sq/ft apartment so I will be bottling, kegging is out of the question for a while so I'll be sticking to 5-6g batches.

My tap water is pretty chlorinated, should I do maybe a 70/30 distilled to tap with a camden tablet? bottled spring water? Or should I just run to my folks place to catch up and mooch ~7g of RO water?

I'm planning to do several recipes out of Palmers 'How to Brew' to get the feel for a few different styles, get the hang of batch sparging and fine tune my processes before I can jump into doing a Pliney clone! (Unless you think someone could accomplish a bigger beer for the first AG batch?? I want something big, hoppy and delicious in my fridge ASAP! )

Also, I need to upgrade to a propane burner before I can even do a full boil. My electric range struggles to boil 3.5 gallons so I suppose that will have to be my jump-off point. I've heard several people say they are very pleased with their Bayou Classic burners. Any other opinions?

If anyone has advice, criticism, comments, concerns or anything along those lines I would love to hear it! I would like to be brewing in a week, especially since I'll be all out of HB for over a month since I didn't realize how fast 5 gallons goes! Thanks for all the help!!

 

[ong]

I would consider brew-in-a-bag if you haven't looked at that already. Especially if you live in an apartment where space is at a premium, it can get you all the flexibility of 3-vessel brewing with a lot less hassle, expense, and storage. I told myself I would be doing BIAB for a few batches until I assembled a big fancy 3 vessel system, and that was 90 batches ago. It's just so simple and efficient that I never had any reason to change -- even have done triple decoction mashes and partigyles.

Re: chlorine/chloramine, I just use straight tap with campden, plus whatever salts I need. But I have tap water very close to distilled in dissolved solids.

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

I would consider brew-in-a-bag if you haven't looked at that already.

Thanks for the quick response! I have looked into BIAB but was 'scared off' because from the little I have read made it seem that the efficiency was much lower. With big IPAs in mind and an already stressed budget I figured that would only cost more in grain. Incase you can't tell by my mindset, I'm a total rookie!..

If I do go the BIAB route, one question I have (aside from needing to do a lot of H2O chemistry homework) is: does it matter if I have an Aluminum 'basket' or a SS? Or are they truly necessary? I've read several posts saying the wet grain can be upwards of 50lbs and I would hate to have a bag burst! I found this earlier and thought it would solve both my burner, and not having a 'basket' problem for the cost of buying a burner/basket/mash tun.

I certainly have a lot to learn, which is why I'm asking these very basic questions now as opposed to going through buyers remorse in a few weeks when I realize I still don't know how to brew well! lol...Thanks again!

 

[ong]

I get around 75% efficiency, which is fine in my book. I brew on my stovetop most of the time (the mega-burner on my stove can boil around 9 gallons fairly quickly). I did originally buy a kettle with a steamer basket insert, but I don't use it for brewing -- I've been using the same bag for those 90 batches and it's never torn or split (a friend sewed it from voile curtain material). I do use a pulley on the ceiling to lift and drain the bag, but before that I would just lift it out by hand. Hope that helps!

 

[ong]

BTW, I have a 42 quart kettle. I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than that for high gravity 5+ gallon batches.

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

BTW, I have a 42 quart kettle. I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than that for high gravity 5+ gallon batches.

I have a 10g/40q kettle, so maybe I'll set my sights a little lower and tune in on the 6ish% brews. Sorry to keep bugging you. I'm unable to rig a pulley system right now. How long and how did you suspend your bag over the kettle before your pulleys? I've read a few people just hang it over a separate bucket to catch the drippings and add the drippings back to the boil. Does that sound about right?

Sorry to keep bothering you with my entry level questions, but I very much appreciate your time, answers and experience! Thanks, yet again!

 

[EarthwormJim]

Before you buy a burner, I would look into your apartments policy on propane use. In the apartments I have lived in you were not allowed to use propane on decks/balconies and not within 10 feet of the building. Would suck spending money on something you find out you can't use.

I got one of the Bayou Classic small jet style burners, I think the SP10, for about $60 on Amazon. There are better burners, but I think this is a good, cheap option. The only thing I don't like is that even with it set as low as I can get it, I get a very strong boil so my boil off rate is really high. Just sparge with a little more water though and get a couple more points efficiency.

I think BIAB is a good option if you are able to manage the bag. I havd never done it so I can't speak from experience. Seems like you can get really good efficiency without sparging since you can squeeze the bag and leave less wort in the grain and you don't need a second vessel to mash in.

I started brewing all grain when I saw how cheep a bazooka screen was and realized we had a cooler sitting around that we never used. Got the screen, valve and a couple other parts and was batch sparging for about $20.

There is a thread called something like this is how big my mash tun needs to be. It has a table that tells how much grain you can mash at a certain thickness in different volume tuns. I think it uses 1.25 qt/lb and at that thickness it says you can get 24# in a 10G tun. I think I mashed 19# in my 9G with a little room to spare, so the table was pretty close.

 

[johnwpowell]

How about this robobrew I saw on more beer.com?

 

[BigCrazyAl]

I have a Bayou Classic burner and kettle. I built a mash tun out of a 54 quart cooler using the same braid off of a refrigerator water line and cobbled together a ball valve all for maybe $40 in parts.

I'll mimic the above post that a large mash tun is overkill for light brews like the last one I did. It worked well but the filtering capability of the bed was poor when sparging. Total 8# of grains.

If space is an issue, even outside, then BIAB may be a good compact option. Here's the scale of my setup on the last brew day.

 

[mongoose33]

First, welcome and congrats on the move to AG. Sounds like you're hooked! I think you'll find your beer tastes better, and it's cheaper after you account for the equipment. I'm doing simple all-grain 5-gallon recipes for under $20; if they're really hoppy that goes up but even that you can mitigate by buying hops by the pound.

Here are a few thoughts on this; I went to all-grain for my 4th batch, and it was batch #6 where I finally hit an excellent beer; I brewed that recipe 2 days ago; it's my 35th batch overall, 32nd all-grain, and my 6th BIAB batch. I remember what it's like to be new at this, but have some experience as well.

Some suggestions and ideas:

1. Brew a simple recipe the first time or two; focus on the process and learning how to do it. I might even suggest doing one more extract batch just to get the process from the boil forward to a comfort zone.

The reason is that the more variables you have, the more easily something can go wrong, and then how do you track down what went wrong? A good simple amber or pale ale or similar will let you get a good beer w/o a lot of recipe complications. I brew a SMASH (single malt and single hop) out of Maris Otter malt and Styrian Celeia hops that's excellent; there are many such SMASHes out there.

2. Do you know anyone who does all-grain who would let you watch a brew session? Or who could help you with the first one? I watched someone do an extract batch before I did my first one and it made a world of difference for me.

3. I had an 8-gallon kettle; wanted to try BIAB but it's really not large enough to do that with a 5-gallon batch, so I sold it and bought a 10-gallon kettle. That's about right for a 5-gallon batch.

4. BIAB is simpler if for no other reason that you don't need a separate mash tun. You do need a way to suspend the bag over the kettle so it can drain, so if you can't either put a hook in the ceiling above where you brew, or build a simple tripod or some such you can place over the kettle and raise the bag, it may not be for you. You say you can't do that right now, so the next best option (and it's a fine option) is a separate mash tun.

5. I believe a square mash tun is better; easier to use a scoop to remove the spent grain, being shorter it's easier to get into to stir. Mine is a cube Igloo cooler with a torpedo screen in it connected to a ball valve. Helpful hint: on a whim, I covered that torpedo screen with a hop bag I had, tied it off w/ a twist tie. Hugely helpful! In a normal mash tun you need to set the grain bed to act as its own filter (called vorlauf). Much faster and better w/ the hop bag tied over the torpedo screen, and the hop bag can be rinsed and washed and reused.

6. You already understand that water is huge in this. You can mitigate chlorine with a campden tablet, as you know. But here's the thing about water and all-grain: if your local water is very alkaline or hard, it's probably not suitable for anything other than very dark beers (Stouts). Dark grain is more acidic; it can offset and bring down the alkalinity (and thus pH) more than lighter grains.

My own local water is like that--very hard, very alkaline. I typically will use a single gallon of that water (not softened--just like it comes into the house) in my own mix, using RO (reverse osmosis) for the rest, and then adding salts and acid to bring it to where it needs to be.

If you can check w/ your municipal water source, they may have a water report that's helpful to you. If you wanted you could send a sample off to Wards in Nebraska for an analysis, but that costs circa $40. You can get RO water from the store, but make that the basis of your brewing water if the local municipal water is not appropriate.

I brewed a BIAB batch Saturday; I started w a gallon of my unsoftened tap water, added 1/2 Campden tablet, crushed. I added 6.25 gallons of RO water, 5 grams of Calcium Chloride (CaCl2), 5 grams of Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salts, MgSO4), and 5 ml of Lactic Acid. So adjusting water doesn't have to be difficult, and if you stared with all RO, it wouldn't be hard to give you a suggested amendment to your water.

If I were doing a traditional mash tun, the additions would be similar, just with more water. I typically used 8 gallons or so using the mash tun.

7. BIAB is a little faster, but you're right to be a bit concerned about efficiency. Morrey helped me with my first batch, but the difference was that instead of crushing my grain with a grain mill roller gap of .035, he suggested .020. I set it to that, and it works. If you can't control the crush of your grain, a traditional mash tun is better, IMO.

8. I got into all-grain because I lucked into a mash tun as part of some equipment from someone who was getting out of brewing. You may be able to find one on craigslist; here's a link to a couple in eastern Iowa which shows what you might be able to find. If you search on craigslist, try a few different seach terms: beer, beer brewing, homebrew, like that.

https://cedarrapids.craigslist.org/for/d/home-brewing-beer-starter/6180148707.html

https://cedarrapids.craigslist.org/for/d/all-grain-beer-brewing-setup/6140118284.html

You'll note he's including voile bags to line the cooler; you can do this as well if you wanted; you can have the bags made to fit the size of your cooler.

**************

I hope I haven't made this appear more complicated than it is. Just go slow, and think about where you want to be in 3- and 6 months. I personally think that water is key here, so if you were to focus anywhere, I'd focus there.

One last thought: you appear to be hooked on this (you remind me of me ), so try not to cheap out on your initial purchases. You'll likely regret that later. Get as good of quality stuff as you can. You won't regret that.

 

[Brownalemikie]

I have a Bayou Classic burner and kettle. I built a mash tun out of a 54 quart cooler using the same braid off of a refrigerator water line and cobbled together a ball valve all for maybe $40 in parts.

I'll mimic the above post that a large mash tun is overkill for light brews like the last one I did. It worked well but the filtering capability of the bed was poor when sparging. Total 8# of grains.

If space is an issue, even outside, then BIAB may be a good compact option. Here's the scale of my setup on the last brew day.

Hey Al, how many home brews did you drink before adjusting the handlebars on the bike in your garage?

 

[BigCrazyAl]

Hey Al, how many home brews did you drink before adjusting the handlebars on the bike in your garage?

That's not how you're supposed to ride it?!

The wife wants to keep the bike so we made it fit next to the car without the giant bars sticking out.

 

[Lefou]

LMAO
I had to go back and look ...

 

[Gonefishing]

LMAO
I had to go back and look ...

I did too.

 

[Lefou]

Now about your water ... yeah, I'd be picky about that. Water's important.
Just starting out, you want to get the best water you can for the least cost and effort. The water has to match the style.
Going all grain from extract will definitely save a couple dollars. For me, the cost of one can of Briess LME is the equivalent of almost seven pounds of grain for a light SRM, low ABV brew.
Almost everyone will consider moving to AG for that one reason alone.

Do you want to brew year round at home? Then you need to consider your space and climate control for fermenting. It can dictate what you buy. Maybe an RO unit for water, a kettle sized for your wort and burner, one stainless steel chronical replacing buckets ... the choices are endless, but have to be budgeted for. My space is limited and I'm stuck with seasonal brewing for now, but am considering a modified 5-7 cubic foot freezer with InkBird controller.

A lot of the answers you want can be found here on the forum, it's a big reason why I joined.