3G Fast Ferment Refund Offer.... threats get results

[Owly055]

Threats get results............ the "squeaky wheel get's the grease" syndrome. The company has not been very responsive to my inquiries until now, after I wrote a strongly worded letter letting them know that I would plaster my dissatisfaction all over the internet. This does not rectify the problem of course. I'll send the defective product back, and get my refund, and advise others to do the same.
If and when generation 2 comes out with the larger neck size of the original, I will probably buy it. Interestingly the customer service rep claimed to have many "satisfied customers", and the fellow at the LHBS who also has one, said his worked fine, but that it took a couple of hours for the trub to settle into the collection jar. With mine it refused to settle at all............. and I'm talking about many days.

I'm extremely aggressive when saddled with an inferior product ...... cheated, unlike most folks who tend to be pretty passive. I have no intention of paying someone $50+ for a non-functional product and eating it.

H.W.

 

[Sconnie12]

Dude. Relax. You need a hobby. Errr another hobby.

 

[augiedoggy]

Didn't you already start a couple threads about this product?

 

[Kent88]

So you complained because you didn't have a bunch of trub settle out into the collection vessel? Was it getting plugged up? Settling out above where it should be? Did you get the same results over a few attempts? Was the customer service rep being particularly unhelpful the first couple times you corresponded?

I usually get good results by calling in and being decent to the customer service rep. That individual person didn't screw up my order, and it seems like the couple different homebrew suppliers customer service folks I've dealt with are perfectly helpful. Even when it comes to things that aren't even that big of a deal, like missing ice packs and slightly open bags of malt.

 

[Owly055]

So you complained because you didn't have a bunch of trub settle out into the collection vessel? Was it getting plugged up? Settling out above where it should be? Did you get the same results over a few attempts? Was the customer service rep being particularly unhelpful the first couple times you corresponded?

I usually get good results by calling in and being decent to the customer service rep. That individual person didn't screw up my order, and it seems like the couple different homebrew suppliers customer service folks I've dealt with are perfectly helpful. Even when it comes to things that aren't even that big of a deal, like missing ice packs and slightly open bags of malt.

The collection jar on the Fast Ferment is intended to collect all the trub in one or two cycles, leaving the brew trub free, and to allow racking from the bottom. An attachment is provided to replace the collection jar for this purpose. There is no other way to rack unless you want to use an autosiphon. If the trub will not pass through you cannot rack the brew. Ordinary yeast trub in the 7 gallon fermenter, as well as hops trub, easily passes through the much larger passage. It works fine. No I did not try several times............ I have no reason at all to expect different results, and no intention of poking down through the fermenter with a rod every brew, or racking off with an autosiphon.

The Fast Ferment people are bad about answering emails if they answer at all, and they absolutely never answer their phone. I'm not normally combative with customer service unless they do not make a serious effort to resolve my issues. Like you, I get better results being civil. This product might work fine for an extract brewer....... I don't know, but I do know that I end up with considerable trub, and I have no reason to expect different results. Doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results is the definition of madness. I'll use equipment that I know works. If using this requires the use of certain yeasts, and others don't work, or a specific crush, or extract only, etc.......... It's garbage to me. The problem is not in my procedure, it's with their product. That's pretty obvious here. A 1/2" diameter passage is simply too small.
H.W.

 

[Kent88]

Thank you for explaining.

I didn't know if you had a limited (time) window to work in as far as getting the product back before you couldn't get your refund. That is one of the more annoying things about buying gear for a hobby like this. I bought a false bottom for my mash tun a few years ago and figured that it would take some time to get everything figured out, but I don't brew a couple times a month and it did work a few times so kept figuring that it was just a matter of me figuring it out. I think the window for returning it was about a month or 2, and I'd only brewed a couple times at that point and I was getting promising results for a while. I have since gone with a different part to do the job of the false bottom.

Repeatability/reproducibility are important even on the homebrew scale, but for many of us it takes a while to accumulate that data. By the time we get that information we're usually past the point where something can be returned for a refund. That is one of the reasons I'm not buying a kegging system until I can buy the entire kegging system all at once (not part by part), which I will probably time out to arrive around the time I'd want to keg a particular beer.

How much larger do you believe the diameter should be?

Oh, and because I feel like it. Also, because this sometimes comes up.

 

[augiedoggy]

The collection jar on the Fast Ferment is intended to collect all the trub in one or two cycles, leaving the brew trub free, and to allow racking from the bottom. An attachment is provided to replace the collection jar for this purpose. There is no other way to rack unless you want to use an autosiphon. If the trub will not pass through you cannot rack the brew. Ordinary yeast trub in the 7 gallon fermenter, as well as hops trub, easily passes through the much larger passage. It works fine. No I did not try several times............ I have no reason at all to expect different results, and no intention of poking down through the fermenter with a rod every brew, or racking off with an autosiphon.

The Fast Ferment people are bad about answering emails if they answer at all, and they absolutely never answer their phone. I'm not normally combative with customer service unless they do not make a serious effort to resolve my issues. Like you, I get better results being civil. This product might work fine for an extract brewer....... I don't know, but I do know that I end up with considerable trub, and I have no reason to expect different results. Doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results is the definition of madness. I'll use equipment that I know works. If using this requires the use of certain yeasts, and others don't work, or a specific crush, or extract only, etc.......... It's garbage to me. The problem is not in my procedure, it's with their product. That's pretty obvious here. A 1/2" diameter passage is simply too small.
H.W.

I think this all depends on your brewing process... I keep the trub out of my conicals all together so it wouldnt have been an issue for me.. I realise thats not the case for everyone but many products get varying results depending on the process and way they are used.. This isnt much different. if someone uses an immersion chiller which its safe to assume most brewing such a small amount would use the trub/cold break should be left in the bottom of the BK for them.

 

[Owly055]

Thank you for explaining.

My current brew is with US-05.
I feel that the opening would not need to be hugely larger. I believe that the pipe thread on the larger FF is 1", but the opening down into the yeast ball is smaller than that. The problem here is simple............. They just scaled things down without taking the results into consideration. I just received an email saying just let me know what I paid and they would refund it........ don't bother sending the unit back, just recycle it. I had said that I would box it up and send the works back as soon as this brew was done.
My equipment matters to me, and this has been a huge disappointment as I had hoped to move entirely to the 3 gallon FF, and retire my other fermenters.

H.W.

 

[Owly055]

I think this all depends on your brewing process... I keep the trub out of my conicals all together so it wouldnt have been an issue for me.. I realise thats not the case for everyone but many products get varying results depending on the process and way they are used.. This isnt much different. if someone uses an immersion chiller which its safe to assume most brewing such a small amount would use the trub/cold break should be left in the bottom of the BK for them.

Having to adhere to a specific process to make the fermenter work really isn't acceptable. I'm not careless, and usually leave most of the trub in the boil kettle, however my process varies. I may cool the wort to pitch temp before racking to the fermenter, or I may fast cool only to take it down below DMS formation temp, then let it slow cool either in the kettle or the fermenter. None of this has been a problem with the 7 gallon FF unit. Procedure may explain why I find it unusable, and someone else does not............. But that doesn't change the issue really. The neck is definitely too small, and I am not the only person having issues with this from one response I read. I will be first in line to buy Gen II of the 3 gallon FF, with the large neck, but this one is entirely unusable as far as I'm concerned. There is no point in owning a conical that requires an autosiphon to rack...........

H.W.

 

[augiedoggy]

Having to adhere to a specific process to make the fermenter work really isn't acceptable. I'm not careless, and usually leave most of the trub in the boil kettle, however my process varies. I may cool the wort to pitch temp before racking to the fermenter, or I may fast cool only to take it down below DMS formation temp, then let it slow cool either in the kettle or the fermenter. None of this has been a problem with the 7 gallon FF unit. Procedure may explain why I find it unusable, and someone else does not............. But that doesn't change the issue really. The neck is definitely too small, and I am not the only person having issues with this from one response I read. I will be first in line to buy Gen II of the 3 gallon FF, with the large neck, but this one is entirely unusable as far as I'm concerned. There is no point in owning a conical that requires an autosiphon to rack...........

H.W.

The ball valves on my 12.5 gallon conicals have a little over 1/2" diameter opening... I have no issues. However my conical is not plastic which is the real contributing problem in my opinion... Its also the reason the yeast doesnt drop very well into the ball on my "V Vessel" and why its only used for the occasional cider or wine batch now... the plastic just has a surface thats more conductive to things sticking.

in any case I think you got their attention with the first thread.. no need to keep starting new ones its just going to hurt your credibility here as your point gets lost.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I have two 3g fast ferments and I love 'em. Never a single problem. When I can scratch together the dough, I'll buy a 7 gallon. Some people just don't know what they're doing and blame it on the clubs when they can't golf well enough to come in under par. Maybe you're a crap brewer? For chrissakes, don't trash a product that works well for so many of us just because YOU can't figure it out. These people are trying to contribute something to the brewing community. Shame on you for trying to tear it down with your nastiness.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Having to adhere to a specific process to make the fermenter work really isn't acceptable.

That's like saying you rode your bike down an elevator shaft, and now you want the helmet manufacturer to foot your medical bills. Stupid, arrogant, exploitative nonsense. Grow up. Nobody owes you a fix for your stupidity. Your tough talk doesn't impress anyone. Your threats about trashing them on social media is a weak attempt at extortion.

 

[gunhaus]

I do not know much about your personal experience with this item - I have had no issues with mine. I do agree that doing the same thing over and over, etc is the definition of insanity. So too is doing something once, assuming YOU'RE the only one who is correct, and drawing a stand pat conclusion. (which is what you implied in your post - along with the more than slightly dismissive shot at our extract brewing friends!) An old wise feller once said, If it is everyone else's fault - It is probably you . . "

 

[radwizard]

So you got your money back and are gonna get another one when they come out with a larger opening, it that right? Sounds like you're good now, and the Company did a good job since you respect them enough to be return customer. I'm just not understanding the point of the thread. It sounds like you are upset about this, but you want the be the first in line to do business with them again....

 

[Owly055]

I do not know much about your personal experience with this item - I have had no issues with mine. I do agree that doing the same thing over and over, etc is the definition of insanity. So too is doing something once, assuming YOU'RE the only one who is correct, and drawing a stand pat conclusion. (which is what you implied in your post - along with the more than slightly dismissive shot at our extract brewing friends!) An old wise feller once said, If it is everyone else's fault - It is probably you . . "

Brewing procedures vary from brewer to brewer. I'm sure if I followed the "correct" procedure for that particular product, it would work, but the product does not come with a stipulated procedure. Perhaps allowing the wort to cool to pitch temp, and allowing cold break to settle for a long period of time, pouring the wort carefully into the fermenter through a fine mesh screen.............. The idea that I need to adopt a very specific brewing regimen so that a poorly designed product with a restrictive neck will work, really isn't acceptable. The larger fermenter with a decent sized orifice works fine for me. This fermenter obviously does not work for some brewers, as per another post, and does for others. Variations is methodology are obviously where the difference lies. When designing a product for the home brewer market, it needs to either take this into account, or be clearly marked as requiring specific procedures to make it work. The source of problem is very clear, as is the solution to it.... a larger neck.
My objectives in this thread are two fold. One is to warn others that there is a problem, or potential problem, and the second is to put enough pressure on the company to encourage them to correct this problem, and perhaps in the future do sufficient testing before releasing a product. The company either did not adequately test the product, or they ignored those test results they found unsatisfactory. This leaves the end user to deal with a product that may not work for him.

Possible solutions would be to go to extract brewing, go away from BIAB, and use a mash tun, and Vorlauf until the wort runs extremely clear, chill down and allow the wort to sit longer after the boil, and screen off any cold break, etc. Some guys have implied that I'm just a crappy brewer...... whatever that is, because I perhaps have more trub than someone else. I personally don't feel that a product that requires a specific procedure to work is acceptable in this case. That is not to say that I have not knowingly bought many things that require special procedures to operate..... knowingly and willingly. This fermenter would work fine for wine I'm sure, and probably work well for an extract brewer. It does not work at all for me, and I'm not the only one having this problem..... Others apparently have concluded that if it doesn't work for them, THEY are doing something wrong........ after all the product was supposed to work wasn't it?

H.W.

 

[gunhaus]

I don't know you from Adam - For all i know you are John Wayne, Mother Teresa, and Albert Schweitzer, all rolled into one. But it seems that you vented your grief, in multiple posts. You berated, and disparaged the company. You GOT what you wanted which was a refund. And you also got to express your righteous indignation at length. AND STILL, you seem to be insisting we all validate your rage by patting you on the back and saying "GOOD on ya!". And you seem bent on continuing to berate them in spite of them satisfying your issue. I do not doubt you had issue. I do not doubt other have been dissatisfied as well - experiences with any product varies. No one likes everything. I would point out that there are several folks including myself who have chimed in that we have had fine experiences with the same product. I had a problem with a 7 gallon unit and got terrific customer service from them. SO are you implying we are all liars? Are you implying that we are unsophisticated hacks who lack your rigorous skills and standards? You made your point - you're angry, and it would seem NOTHING they can do for you will ever be good enough. I don't see a problem, you obviously cannot see past one. Be unhappy if that makes you happy - but I don't see why we need to support your angst. If your position is sound and you are infinitely sure of your righteousness on the issue, then you really don't NEED any external validation . . . Do you? In other words you are kind of pounding the proverbial past tense pony.