2 or 3 Roller Malt Mill

[XXXBrewDude]

The title states it all. I'm going to purchase a malt mill, yet not sure if the 3 roller is worth the extra bucks? And nope, I'm not interested in running the crush through a second time. How about some opinions? Is the 2 roller going to work just fine? My average grain bill is 20Lbs / batch. Also, how about some opinions on what brand out performs the others, and what gap setting is working the best for you fellow brewers.

Thanks,

 

[billl]

I've got a Monster Mill 2 roller with the gap set at 34. That is about as tight as I can crank it down before it starts to rip up the husks and impact runoff. I've got it power by a drill so it only takes a minute or 2 to mill.

I haven't spent any time trying to double-mill to try to compare it to a 3 roller though. It might get you a better crush, who knows? I'm at 75%+ efficiency with pretty fast runoffs, and that's good enough for me at this point. If you are chasing efficiency numbers to just brew a ton, then maybe a it would be worth it to you to spring for the top of the line mill.

 

[brewcephus]

fwiw, I just bought the MM3. It's actually $5 cheaper than the MM2-2.0. I haven't used it yet, so I can't give a testament to it's worth as of yet.

 

[W0rthog]

i bought a 3 roller monster mill 2.0 and it came with about a .040 gap. it produced a beautiful crush out of the box. husks were in tact, with a nice crush.
I'd say it depends on how long you plan to brew beer as to how much you plan to spend.
As for me, I will be brewing into my 80's for sure


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[MichaelBD]

I got an MM3-2.0 and it produces a great crush:rockin:
However... I've been having problems with it crushing wheat. Wheat seems to be much harder and it gets my rollers stuck.

Maybe I just have the wrong setting? I'm setting it with a creditcard.

 

[divrguy]

I was going to purchase a MM3 originally but found a used MM2 on CL for a great deal. I brew at least monthly and many times every couple of weeks. It works beautifully and I have set it to .037. I have had it for over a year and power it with a Dewalt. I set my Beersmith efficiency to 77% and always hit it almost exactly or 1-2 points higher.

That said, if you can afford the 3.. I would go for it.


Cheers!

 

[mabrungard]

Roller diameter is an important factor and you want the largest rollers you can afford. All the big brewing textbooks say that you should mill with at least 6 inch diameter rollers. For homebrewers, that is just a fantasy. So going with the 2 inch rollers from MM is a good compromise.

I've had a number of friends have problems with 3 roller mills. It is sometimes difficult to get all the non-driven rollers to spin.

I can report that conditioning your grain prior to milling is a HUGE help in keeping the husks intact while producing a fine crush of the kernels. Get a Mortar Mixing tub from a home improvement store and a spray bottle. Mist water on the grain and mix by hand to distribute the moisture. Only apply enough water to get most of the 'dustiness' out of the grain. You should see very little dust on your hands or in the air when you mix the grain by hand. DO NOT ADD TOO MUCH WATER or you will be very sorry (yes, I've been sorry). The grain will not be 'wet' when you properly condition. It will only be 'less dusty'.

 

[Toga]

If you are going to buy the Monster mill get the MM3. It does a bang up job.

 

[two_hearted]

How often do you brew?

I've got the MM2 with 1.5" rollers and it does an awesome job. I mill about 10-15# of grain at a time. I can't see this thing crapping out on me in a long time. 3 rollers seems like overkill unless you're a home brew shop. If you're brewing 3-4 times a month, I would go with 2" rollers. Otherwise I would save some money and go with the MM2.

 

[stpug]

The title states it all. I'm going to purchase a malt mill, yet not sure if the 3 roller is worth the extra bucks? And nope, I'm not interested in running the crush through a second time. How about some opinions? Is the 2 roller going to work just fine? My average grain bill is 20Lbs / batch. Also, how about some opinions on what brand out performs the others, and what gap setting is working the best for you fellow brewers.

Thanks,

I'm using a MM2 at .037" gap and my system gets ~80% brewhouse efficiency (~85% mash efficiency) using this crush. There is no need to run the grain through twice. I can't foresee this mill "breaking down" or "wearing out" - it's solid.

A 3-roller mill should get you a slightly more consistent crush with even more intact husk for more $$. A larger diameter roller should get you the same for more $$. So a 3 roller, larger diameter mill should do the best job for the most $$$$.

It's always just about the money . I think you could buy any Monster Mill and it will outlast your homebrewing life with minimal service.

 

[30Bones]

I am seeing 1.5" rollers across the board. The new Captain Crush from NB is also 1.5" rollers on all 3. It's making my head spin since I want to sell my cereal killer to get a more precise mill to up my efficiency.

Where are these 2" rollers found?

 

[XXXBrewDude]

OK , it sounds like its time to chime in. Thanks for all the input to my original question. Now here's what I take away from all the comments. Most people are using the monster mill 2 or 3 roller. Great, cuz this is the one that I was focused on as well. Most are VERY happy with the performance and durability. Great once again. The roller diameter is something that I did not consider. I can see how a larger diameter would provide more surface to grain contact, flatter crush. However, larger diameter would raise the cost 4 times easily, not real sensible for the home brewer. The 3 roller gives more contact (crush time) than the 2 roller so....this will be my choice.
Now, another interesting point to consider other than the gap size, is the consistency of the crush. I would believe the 3rd roller addition will catch and crush any grain that may have sneaked through the first 2 rollers. Not crushing on a different axis cuz the grain is forced through, flattened and fed through the controlled gap width to the last roller, just crushing what snuk though the first crush. Wheat can be quite hard and would most probably benefit from the 3rd roller as well.
I'm consistently hitting 90+ efficiency brew house using the LHBS crushers. 2 separate LHBS that I use. I need to look closer at what roller size these guys have yet they do look like the large industrial type that I've seen for about $1500. I'm not sporting that $$. However I tightly control water/grain ratios, Mash PH, and also fly sparge. Crush is just 1 part of the efficiency factor. Id bet the Monster Mill 3 roller will make me happy. Its about $235. I'll be brewing 12 Gal batches at about 2 batches / month. Purchasing grain buy the bag is about a 40% savings so I will recover the Mill cost in a few months.

 

[stpug]

OK , it sounds like its time to chime in. Thanks for all the input to my original question. Now here's what I take away from all the comments. Most people are using the monster mill 2 or 3 roller. Great, cuz this is the one that I was focused on as well. Most are VERY happy with the performance and durability. Great once again. The roller diameter is something that I did not consider. I can see how a larger diameter would provide more surface to grain contact, flatter crush. However, larger diameter would raise the cost 4 times easily, not real sensible for the home brewer. The 3 roller gives more contact (crush time) than the 2 roller so....this will be my choice.
Now, another interesting point to consider other than the gap size, is the consistency of the crush. I would believe the 3rd roller addition will catch and crush any grain that may have sneaked through the first 2 rollers. Not crushing on a different axis cuz the grain is forced through, flattened and fed through the controlled gap width to the last roller, just crushing what snuk though the first crush. Wheat can be quite hard and would most probably benefit from the 3rd roller as well.
I'm consistently hitting 90+ efficiency brew house using the LHBS crushers. 2 separate LHBS that I use. I need to look closer at what roller size these guys have yet they do look like the large industrial type that I've seen for about $1500. I'm not sporting that $$. However I tightly control water/grain ratios, Mash PH, and also fly sparge. Crush is just 1 part of the efficiency factor. Id bet the Monster Mill 3 roller will make me happy. Its about $235. I'll be brewing 12 Gal batches at about 2 batches / month. Purchasing grain buy the bag is about a 40% savings so I will recover the Mill cost in a few months.

Seems like some solid thinking there and I don't think you'd be unhappy with any Monster Mill option

If I recall correctly, setting the gap on 3 roller models can be a bit more involved that 2 roller models. Additionally, IIRC, the first gap is slightly bigger than the second gap to provide kind of a "pre-crush" before hitting the second gap - thus the more complex gap setting procedure. If you haven't already, read about the gap setting of 3 roller models on the Monster Mill website.

Lastly, if you EVER decide to change or replace your MM, you'll recover 75% or more of the mill cost simply due to the quality construction. Kind of a score-score situation . I still see old 80s-made Malt Mills being sold for nearly $100 in classifieds, and I suspect the shorter roller malt mills will remain the style for many years to come.

 

[XXXBrewDude]

Thanks St. Pug,
I got on the web site and read the gap setting instructions for the 3 roller. Yes it sounds like a PITB, but I'm very technical / handy and will figure this out. It doesn't really state the first crush is larger than the second, just states how to set the gap. Once I get this thing I will understand better.
However this raises a question from all of you. With the MM3 being kinda a pain to adjust, it would appear that choosing a gap size and leaving it there permanently would be nice. It comes preset at .045". Probably a good place?? .038 - .040 will yield higher efficiency, yet may clog sparges with wheat? I usually through rice hulls in my wheat's anyway.
How about some opinions from you guys / girls on gap sizes?

 

[30Bones]

I am at 0.04~ on my cheap cereal killer and that varies by 0.005 in any rotation . If you use rice hulls on wheat, I would be of the "set it and forget it" mindset. Maybe try a batch at the preset 0.045 and reduce it to 0.040 if you feel you can gain some %

My assumption is the 0.045 in conjunction with the 3rd roller is what really works for that style mill.

 

[stpug]

Thanks St. Pug,
I got on the web site and read the gap setting instructions for the 3 roller. Yes it sounds like a PITB, but I'm very technical / handy and will figure this out. It doesn't really state the first crush is larger than the second, just states how to set the gap. Once I get this thing I will understand better.
However this raises a question from all of you. With the MM3 being kinda a pain to adjust, it would appear that choosing a gap size and leaving it there permanently would be nice. It comes preset at .045". Probably a good place?? .038 - .040 will yield higher efficiency, yet may clog sparges with wheat? I usually through rice hulls in my wheat's anyway.
How about some opinions from you guys / girls on gap sizes?

I may have misunderstood the 3roller gap settings at some point, but this FAQ does seem to indicate the first gap is some kind of 'precrush' gap while the second gap finishes the job.

http://www.monsterbrewinghardware.com/faq.html#q1

As far as gap spacing goes, IMO, it's very much equipment and system dependent. I suspect that you will prefer to work with a smaller gap spacing than default considering you've been getting such great efficiency from system using your LHBS crush. I don't think 2-roller gap spacing can be compared to 3-roller gap spacing, directly, since they have to accomplish an entire job in a single pass whereas the 3-rollers have two passes to accomplish the same job. With that said, my 2-roller MM is set at 0.037" gap; in a 3-roller model, this would probably be equivalent to a slightly larger gap (0.040" for instance). Considering the efficiencies you are used to, my best recommendation would be to tighten up the gap slightly from default on the 3-roller model and brew a batch to see where you fall out, and then adjust from there. I did the same with mine by starting at a slightly larger gap the first batch and then tightened it up a hair after that. I ended up only making the one gap adjustment and have liked it's crush ever since.

When it comes to raw wheat (not wheat malt), I generally will mill that separately and put it through twice because it tends to need that.

 

[63belair]

I am seeing 1.5" rollers across the board. The new Captain Crush from NB is also 1.5" rollers on all 3. It's making my head spin since I want to sell my cereal killer to get a more precise mill to up my efficiency.

Where are these 2" rollers found?

Monster Mill came out with a new version of their two roller mill somewhat recently. It looks super nice and I have considered it, but I don't think I can justify the price difference over the regular 2 roller they make.

http://www.monsterbrewinghardware.com/mm-220.html

 

[billl]

" I would believe the 3rd roller addition will catch and crush any grain that may have sneaked through the first 2 rollers"

Nothing sneaks through the first rollers. They are solid steal and anything that makes it out of the hopper will be crushed by them.

The benefit of the 3 rollers is that you can set the first roller to a larger setting as a "pre-crush". That minimizes the flour you create vs a 2 roller and also minimizes husk tearing. That should theoretically give you faster runoff. Given that you fly sparge, it might be worth it to you

 

[30Bones]

Monster Mill came out with a new version of their two roller mill somewhat recently. It looks super nice and I have considered it, but I don't think I can justify the price difference over the regular 2 roller they make.

http://www.monsterbrewinghardware.com/mm-220.html

Thanks for that. Yeah it adds up fast, I am at $305 before shipping for the SS "boy howdy" edition. I look at it as I have already wasted $100 on my cheap mill and will be lucky to get $60 back out of it. I spend $300 once I will not sell it until I pass down my system when I die

Wonder since most mills are knurled, wonder what the reasoning is behind the ribbed rollers on the new Captain Crunch mill

 

[XXXBrewDude]

Yep, Its an obsession. I'm now thinking of ordering direct from Monster and getting the MM3-2.0 (3 rolller with 2" dia). Money aside, I've been hearing complaints with the standard MM3 gap size slipping and also the rollers periodically locking up. The new 2" roller version has an upgraded gap lock-down mechanism that solves this. And yes, Both MM3 have a "Fixed .060" gap which performs a slight pre-crush and aids in the feeding of the grain to the final gap crush. After surfing the web a bit, I found many 3-7bbl brewers using the MM3-2.0 and are very pleased. Looks like its competitor is the "frankenstein". I'm only going to purchase this once so I'd like to be happy forever.

 

[63belair]

Thanks for that. Yeah it adds up fast, I am at $305 before shipping for the SS "boy howdy" edition. I look at it as I have already wasted $100 on my cheap mill and will be lucky to get $60 back out of it. I spend $300 once I will not sell it until I pass down my system when I die

Wonder since most mills are knurled, wonder what the reasoning is behind the ribbed rollers on the new Captain Crunch mill

I remember reading in a thread on the captain crunch mill that larger mills used by commercial breweries tend to have ribbed rollers rather than knurled.

 

[30Bones]

I remember reading in a thread on the captain crunch mill that larger mills used by commercial breweries tend to have ribbed rollers rather than knurled.

Wonder what that means to the hobby brewer? 100% not needed or noticeable over a knurled version? It's cheaper than a SS MM. I can see myself buying my last mill sometime this year and need to do a lot more research.

 

[tootal]

A friend of mine just got the MM3 with the hardened, knurled rollers. If you want it to last I would recommend you do that too. It should never wear out.

As far as roller gap, the pro's first gap is .069" but they are using around 8"-10" rollers. As the malt goes through the second gap it's around .035 and the third turns it into talcom powder! The hulls are blown away from the second set of rollers so they don't go past the first roller. I think a first roller gap from .060" to .070" would be fine. I believe our two roller mill is set at .069" but our rollers are driven at different speeds and are 5" diameter. It looks like the smaller rollers require less gap which I don't understand, it just seems that way.

 

[XXXBrewDude]

OK, I did it! Got the MM3-2.0" mill, Hopper w/ extension and base on order....$$$OUCH$$$. Whatever, a couple months from now I'll get over the cost, yet have a sweeeeet mill forever
....:rockin:

 

[30Bones]

Congrats on the new mill!

Stumbled upon this JSP mill in another thread and it's raising my interest and a lot cheaper. http://schmidling.com/maltmill.htm

 

[XXXBrewDude]

Much cheaper indeed! I was a bit leery with the other brands due to unfamiliar and comments. There is a lot of info out there on the MM.

 

[Flboy]

Congrats on the new mill!

Stumbled upon this JSP mill in another thread and it's raising my interest and a lot cheaper. http://schmidling.com/maltmill.htm

I have been looking at the JSP also, but did not consider it the 'cheaper alternative'. Been emailing jack schmidling back and forth. Have heard other stories, but I think he is a straight up guy!

 

[XXXBrewDude]

Received the MM3-2.0 today. Bolted this sucker together and let me tell you, this is one strong heavy peace. I love it and haven't even used it yet. I purchased a 7.5 amp variable speed drill from harbor freight to drive it. Both showed up today in the mail . It's like Christmas . Monster states it comes preset to a .045 gap. I wanted a .040 gap. Started to adjust it but when I stuck my feeler gage in I discovered that it came set perfectly to .040. Not sure what that's all about but I was pleased. I'll spend a little time this weekend building a table for this thing and bolt the drill in permanent then I'm ready to crush!


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[MichaelBD]

Congrats! Yea I do agree, the MM3 is some piece of hardware. Be careful not to the put your finger in it!


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[XXXBrewDude]

Hey MichaelMD,
I haven't crushed anything yet But..... Are you still having trouble with wheat jamming your roller? I'm sure you read the gap adjustment directions yet it did state to insure the back side gap is larger than the output (.045) gap to prevent jamming.

 

[MichaelBD]

I know now why it jammed. The wheat grains i milled were unmalted (stupid me!). Hahahahaaha.... I just brewed another batched with malted wheat and no problems whatsoever. Another thing i would like to note though, after some time my mill started to move and it caused the rollers to be at an angled position, lucky i saw that before grinding them together


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[XXXBrewDude]

Got it, so it was more like "gumming up". Thats understandable. Ive got the black bolts cranked down pretty darn tight. I'll be surprised if the gap moves.
Thanks

 

[y2jrock60]

I was in the same boat a few months ago, couldn't decide between a two or three roller mill. I've been brewing for a few years and got tired of my inconsistent crush at my LHBS. I also have the tendency to purchase grain a few weeks before I brew and never liked having crushed grain sit for very long. It's nice being able to crush while my strike water is heating up. I decided to purchase a three roller Monster Mill. I figured I might as well get something nice that's going to last. I knew I would kick myself down the road if I only purchased a two roll mill. I'm very pleased with its results. If you plan on brewing for years down the road, which I intend to, why not spend a few extra bucks and get the three roll mill? A two roll mill will work just fine, but if you're questioning which one to get, why take the risk of purchasing something you may want to upgrade in the future. Just get the three roll mill.

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[SABRES32]

I started milling the normal way with a MM3 at the default factory setting. Eff. was meger 60-70%. About 8 months ago after reserching and watching a few videos on the process I switched and starting spraying my base malt only with a light spray of water. I also closed the gap slightly on my MM3 to increase the crush. Over the last 15+ brews I've averaged 80-85% eff. with the occassional 90% this is no B.S. try it. It added only a few minutes to my milling process. Now I need to adjust my recipes as most of my ABVs have been much higher. I've also needing yeast starters to insure proper attinuation and flavor.

Give it a try...you'll be convienced after just one conditioning experience!

John

 

[30Bones]

What's your method for spraying it? May try it on a small batch to see the results.

 

[SABRES32]

Purchased large plastic totes from Walmart or Lowe's and spray bottle. I usually spray 1/4 of the grain bill at a time also excluding roasted and specialty grains. I place that 1/4 in the tote and lightly spray using my hand to mix the grain after a few short bursts and repeat until grain feels slightly leathery. don't over due it, then I place that 1/4 in separate tote and do the next 1/4 until you've coated all the base grain. You could always mill a small batch to test youre conditioning. If the grain hulls are more complete or intact you know you've misted with enough water. This will act as a natural filter like using rice hulls as I adjusted my mill to a slight finer setting. the only time I add additional rice hulls is when using large amounts of oats, flaked type grains.

There are a few YouTube videos out there that I watched. So glad I made the switch.