2 Day Brew? Is it possible?

[BigLeeFromSC]

Was planning on my first all grain this weekend, but pushed for time. Here's the question, Can you do your grain mashing and sparging, then seal in bucket and do the boil the next morning ? Tried to do some searches but came up empty handed, any help would be appreciated.

-Lee


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[brewbama]

I was wondering the same thing today while planning my first all grain tomorrow also.


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[Mike_kever_kombi]

I believe there is lactobacillus on grain. Leaving it sit over night without boil May sour wort

 

[jbaysurfer]

Was planning on my first all grain this weekend, but pushed for time. Here's the question, Can you do your grain mashing and sparging, then seal in bucket and do the boil the next morning ? Tried to do some searches but came up empty handed, any help would be appreciated.

-Lee


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I've done it before a couple of times. One time I put it in a sealed bucket then cold crashed it in a chest freezer before storing it overnight in the fridge. took it out and boiled a couple of days later. The beer turned out fantastic. It was an IPL and one of the best I've ever brewed.

Another time I didn't cold crash it and just left it in the bucket, then boiled the next day. When I opened the bucket it had a bit of a funky smell, not really strong, but I did notice it. I then brewed as normal, and I'd say the beer turned out...well...pretty normal. It wasn't my best beer ever, but definitely not my worst.

I do not hold the outcomes out to be anything other then anecdotal information for the OP, so the trolls can skip on over the post if they don't like what I said.

So yes. It can be done. If you can't cold crash it, I would try to definitely keep the lag between the mash and the boil to a minimum. I would also make sure to do a mash out because if you don't conversion won't stop.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I believe there is lactobacillus on grain. Leaving it sit over night without boil May sour wort

This is true, but the boil will more then kill off whatever grows so long as it doesn't sit for too long. I know a commercial brewer that does every batch of Russian Imperial Stout as an overnight mash. Not even a hint of lacto in the final product.

Edit: don't mess around with sanitation though...if you do this OP, wash and sanitize that bucket asap after dumping it into your kettle.

 

[Dryhops]

A number of people mash overnight, which is similar to what you're describing:

https://byo.com/stories/item/931-is...mash-overnight-and-just-sparge-in-the-morning

As mentioned in the article, infection is a concern, especially if you don't keep it at a proper hot/cold preservation temperature. Without boiling the wort, it is a breeding ground for wild yeast and especially lactobacillus. This isn't desirable unless you're going for a berliner weisse or other sour beer.

I would just do it all in one day, even if it is possible over two. There are a number of time saving things you can do instead if you're short on time:

-Mash for 30 minutes instead of 60. An hour long mash is the standard but a vast majority of conversion happens in the first 15 minutes.
-Batch sparge
-Immediately heat your runnings when you begin sparging. By the time you're finished sparging your wort will be near boiling.

 

[wilserbrewer]

IMHO, the safest way to approach this is to collect your wort into your kettle, and heat to 170 - 180 degrees, thereby killing anything that may be lurking.

Then lid the kettle and continue the brew as time permits.

An even better timesaver is to mash in a cooler, go to bed and collec runnings and boil the following morning. Transferring to a bucket, then transferring again to a kettle seems counter productive and also introduces a greater chance of contamination IMO.

 

[Dryhops]

This is true, but the boil will more then kill off whatever grows so long as it doesn't sit for too long. I know a commercial brewer that does every batch of Russian Imperial Stout as an overnight mash. Not even a hint of lacto in the final product.

Edit: don't mess around with sanitation though...if you do this OP, wash and sanitize that bucket asap after dumping it into your kettle.

A mash in a commercial brewery will hold temps for many more hours due to the greater thermal mass. It would be unlikely for lacto to propagate in that setting. An RIS also would be a good candidate to hide off flavors.

Alternatively on a homebrew scale the mash would be room temp in a few hours. It only takes a day to sour a mash so I wouldn't risk it.

 

[jbaysurfer]

A number of people mash overnight, which is similar to what you're describing:

https://byo.com/stories/item/931-is...mash-overnight-and-just-sparge-in-the-morning

As mentioned in the article, infection is a concern, especially if you don't keep it at a proper hot/cold preservation temperature. Without boiling the wort, it is a breeding ground for wild yeast and especially lactobacillus. This isn't desirable unless you're going for a berliner weisse or other sour beer.

I would just do it all in one day, even if it is possible over two. There are a number of time saving things you can do instead if you're short on time:

-Mash for 30 minutes instead of 60. An hour long mash is the standard but a vast majority of conversion happens in the first 15 minutes.
-Batch sparge
-Immediately heat your runnings when you begin sparging. By the time you're finished sparging your wort will be near boiling.

But the OP is going to boil the wort and do it very soon after. So no worries OP. A Berlinerweiss is traditionally not boiled. The amount of lacto that can form overnight is no match for a vigorous boil.

 

[jbaysurfer]

A mash in a commercial brewery will hold temps for many more hours due to the greater thermal mass. It would be unlikely for lacto to propagate in that setting. An RIS also would be a good candidate to hide off flavors.

Alternatively on a homebrew scale the mash would be room temp in a few hours. It only takes a day to sour a mash so I wouldn't risk it.

I'm not sure whether you're discounting my anecdote by saying lacto couldn't form overnight (I know the temp loss over night in that setting do you?) or by saying the lacto infection is just masked by the final product, or maybe you don't care as long as it's discounted. FWIW I am BJCP, and I'm fairly certain I could taste lacto.

Two posters now seem to be ignoring that sour mashed beers like Berlinerweiss' are not subsequently boiled. I repeat, the amount of lacto that is going to form overnight in the scenario OP laid out is going to die a very quick death in the boil the next morning.

I've done sourmashes. I've also done two part brewdays. There's a difference.

 

[jbaysurfer]

IMHO, the safest way to approach this is to collect your wort into your kettle, and heat to 170 - 180 degrees, thereby killing anything that may be lurking.

Then lid the kettle and continue the brew as time permits.

An even better timesaver is to mash in a cooler, go to bed and collec runnings and boil the following morning. Transferring to a bucket, then transferring again to a kettle seems counter productive and also introduces a greater chance of contamination IMO.

Effectively this is what I suggest, and I agree with Wilsers humble opinion

 

[thisisbeer]

It's not the lacto after the boil to be worried about. Depending on the length in between mash and boil the lacto from the grain could sour the wort. Meaning the wort already begins to sour before you even boil it. The ph will begin dropping if there are bugs around and 120 degrees or so. But when you mash around 150 there shouldn't be much left to sour the wort. It could be fine?

 

[jbaysurfer]

It's not the lacto after the boil to be worried about. Depending on the length in between mash and boil the lacto from the grain could sour the wort. Meaning the wort already begins to sour before you even boil it. The ph will begin dropping if there are bugs around and 120 degrees or so. But when you mash around 150 there shouldn't be much left to sour the wort. It could be fine?

So explain to me the worry again? That lacto will form in the wort? The OP boils it for an hour or more after a few hours max of possible lacto propagation temps, lacto dies. Worry solved right?

I'm not here saying lacto can't infect a beer if you're not careful, I'm just here giving real world (because I've done it) practical advice to a brewer. Academically speaking, it's not hard to imagine ways lacto will be a problem. But in the process OP describes I genuinely don't think there will be one.

JMHO

OP, make your own decisions. Try to recognize alarmism when you see it, and try to recognize bad advice when you see. Not saying there's any of that on this thread, but there's plenty of that on this site. PM me if you want any personal advice. I'd be happy to help.

 

[Dryhops]

To clarify.

Lacto literally sours the wort by making lactic acid. Once it is sour then you can't boil sourness (lactic acid) away. It only takes a day sitting at room temps to get sour. So it's still a legitimate risk.

 

[neilpcraven]

You could embrace the problem by brewing a berliner weisse type beer.

 

[wilserbrewer]

So explain to me the worry again? That lacto will form in the wort? The OP boils it for an hour or more after a few hours max of possible lacto propagation temps, lacto dies. Worry solved right?

The worry is that as soon as the lacto forms it alters the flavor profile or souring, boiling will not remove this.

While a few hours is certainly not a great concern, but a day would likely be. Also the flavor change may be slight, or perhaps desirable????

 

[jbaysurfer]

To clarify.

Lacto literally sours the wort. Once it is sour then you can't boil sourness (lactic acid) away. It only takes a day sitting at room temps to get sour. So it's still a legitimate risk.

I guess that's why I feel if he mashes out (170F) wort. And keeps the time between draining the tun and the boil to a minimum, he'll be ok. But that's fair. The bacteria will die, but the acid won't. Lacto like 100F. If you mash out to 170 or even 180, and insulate the bucket very well and keep the lag to a minimum, you'll likely be fine.

All that said, I'd like to refocus, because I'm getting sidetracked. My first advice was to cold crash it in a freezer and store it cold overnight if possible. That's the safest course of action if you're going to break a brewday up into two parts like this.

 

[thisisbeer]

So explain to me the worry again? That lacto will form in the wort? The OP boils it for an hour or more after a few hours max of possible lacto propagation temps, lacto dies. Worry solved right?

I'm not here saying lacto can't infect a beer if you're not careful, I'm just here giving real world (because I've done it) practical advice to a brewer. Academically speaking, it's not hard to imagine ways lacto will be a problem. But in the process OP describes I genuinely don't think there will be one.

JMHO

OP, make your own decisions. Try to recognize alarmism when you see it, and try to recognize bad advice when you see. Not saying there's any of that on this thread, but there's plenty of that on this site. PM me if you want any personal advice. I'd be happy to help.

The worry I have is the ph will drop while the wort is sitting. It will start to sour and lower the ph. I'm not worried about after the boil. Depending on how long the wort is under 120 degrees depends on how much the bugs will be able to work. They will forum lactic acid which will drop the ph of the wort. He said two days in the title which would put a sourness in the beer IF the bugs are able to work. Maybe they won't get a chance to work. That's not my humble opinion. That's a fact. Academically speaking.

I posted that because everyone seemed worried about infection after the boil. It's pre boil that's a concern. The mash temps may stop anything that could sour the wort but it's something to look into. It's the Internet assume all information is wrong until you verify it multiple times.

 

[BigLeeFromSC]

The worry I have is the ph will drop while the wort is sitting. It will start to sour and lower the ph. I'm not worried about after the boil. Depending on how long the wort is under 120 degrees depends on how much the bugs will be able to work. They will forum lactic acid which will drop the ph of the wort. He said two days in the title which would put a sourness in the beer IF the bugs are able to work. Maybe they won't get a chance to work. That's not my humble opinion. That's a fact. Academically speaking.



I posted that because everyone seemed worried about infection after the boil. It's pre boil that's a concern. The mash temps may stop anything that could sour the wort but it's something to look into. It's the Internet assume all information is wrong until you verify it multiple times.

Thanks for all the advice! When I said two days I guess I wasn't very clear, my thought was to do the mash then wake the next morning and do the boil. With that being said and all the comments, I think the best bet would just be to complete it all in one day.



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[jbaysurfer]

The worry I have is the ph will drop while the wort is sitting. It will start to sour and lower the ph. I'm not worried about after the boil. Depending on how long the wort is under 120 degrees depends on how much the bugs will be able to work. They will forum lactic acid which will drop the ph of the wort. He said two days in the title which would put a sourness in the beer IF the bugs are able to work. Maybe they won't get a chance to work. That's not my humble opinion. That's a fact. Academically speaking.

I posted that because everyone seemed worried about infection after the boil. It's pre boil that's a concern. The mash temps may stop anything that could sour the wort but it's something to look into. It's the Internet assume all information is wrong until you verify it multiple times.

I gotcha. I wasn't quite considering that part fully tbh. Good insight.

 

[wilserbrewer]

...my thought was to do the mash then wake the next morning and do the boil.

This should be fine, the discussion veered of course and assumed you would be letting the mash sit for a day...I would mash in and go to bed, collect your wort in the morning and boil.

Cheers