1st time with lager yeast

[cjcalico]

Like the title says, I'm using a lager yeast for the first time (wyeast pilsen lager smackpack). Activated the pack as directed, and by the time I was ready to pitch there was very little swelling in the pouch. I've only used wyeast once and that thing was ready to burst by the time I pitched. Not the case this time, and I'm concerned that the batch is weak. The manufacture date is 14 June 2011.

I pitched yesterday, OG was a bit high - 1.058 - keeping it at about 60 deg for about 12 hrs, then moved it to my basement where it's about 55 deg. I've read that the activity is slower, but I've seen absolutely nothing so far. How long should I wait before I decide to re-pitch? Thanks!

 

[chaos2984]

should of read the package. atleast my wyeast smack pack said 6 months from mfg date on package. I would say june till now is just outside the date. My yeast is a lager yeast and it was made in november and i used it yesterday and got my brew sitting at 57 and its already fermenting

 

[Yooper]

With a lager, and not using a starter, you'd need 4-6 packages of fresh yeast to get the right amount of yeast. By only using one package of older yeast, I'm afraid you're in for a VERY long wait.

Check out mrmalty.com, and go to the yeast pitching calculator to see the optimum amount of yeast to use in a lager with an OG of 1.058. Mrmalty.com

It says you need 14 packages of yeast that old AND a 6 liter starter to ferment a lager of 1.058. That might be overkill, but certainly you underpitched by a huge margin.

You can either add more yeast, or be prepared to wait a week or so for fermentation to start. I'd add more yeast tomorrow.

 

[chaos2984]

my beer was at 1.060 and it started to ferment at 24hours.

 

[mhenry41h]

Yeah, you definitely need a large starter OR a whole bunch of yeast packs for a lager. It's going to take a while to finish your beer and 2 things concern me. 1) there is going to be a ton of growth so you'll likely pick up esters you wouldn't want in a lager and 2) I'm afraid you will diacetyl due to an incomplete fermentation. I certainly hope the best for your beer, but lagers are far less forgiving when it comes to off flavors.

 

[Zider]

On the subject of lager yeasts. I too had similar problem on first lagering attempt I think they're right add more goes faster. I read that putting more yeast in also helps reduce need for yeast increasing in number in the beer. Making new cells apparently brings an off taste. So here's a question. If you expand yeast in the starter and then pour that into your beer aren't you just adding the off taste with the starter. Why is expanding yeast number separate from the brew going to taste better than it happening in The brew?

Also to Take this slightly off topic briefly :

1)Got two carboys with 2 lagers. Same yeast different kits (brewferm and festa brew). The second kit is premixed with water so filled carboy to the neck. I had to put blowoff tube on it. I noticed all the brown gunk (that tastes puke) got skimmed off during blow off and so now the krausen is a pure white. The other is a scummy brown. See photo. Will the scum taste? If so would it be wise to always use blow off?
2) other non hopped 'beers', apple, ginger beer etc are all made with ale yeasts. Last ginger beer I made was very sulphury. Would making a ginger 'lager' improve the taste at all and give a cleaner drink? Not ever seen anything on that.

 

[samc]

Best method is to chill and decant the starter liquid off the yeast cake so you don't add the off tasting beer/wort into your main batch.

I prefer larger fermentation vessels to blow off tubes.

 

[mhenry41h]

The reason you don't get more esters in a starter is because you'll likely pitch 2 vials into somewhere from 1500-2000 ml of low gravity wort. The yeast don't need to multiply in giant quantities to accomplish the job like they would by pitching a single vial into 5 gallons of drastically higher gravity wort.

 

[cjcalico]

Thanks people - much appreciated. I'll head over and get a new batch and make a starter. Hopefully it won't cause too many problems, but I'll modify next time.

 

[osagedr]

One thing to note; the consequences of underpitching and associated extended lag times are much, much more serious (for lagers) than the consequences of overpitching, especially with lagers where the esters lost by overpitching are generally not important to the finished beer. Dry yeast is a good way to go.

 

[cjcalico]

Update: got a new batch of WLP 800 yesterday (same strain as Wyeast), made a starter, and re-pitched this morning @ 65 deg. Good activity already, and I'll start to cool it down tomorrow morning. Thanks again!

 

[kmk1012]

For my 1st lager (last week) I made a starter 2 days prior to brewing-it was 2 liters. I ended up with way better efficiency than anticipated (1.068!). I'm glad I did a starter-there was active fermentation by the next morning-approx 8-10 hours.

 

[Yooper]

Update: got a new batch of WLP 800 yesterday (same strain as Wyeast), made a starter, and re-pitched this morning @ 65 deg. Good activity already, and I'll start to cool it down tomorrow morning. Thanks again!

At ale temps (65 degrees), the yeast will ferment. But a lager is fermented at 50 degrees or thereabouts. By the time the fermenting wort gets to 50 degrees, the fermentation will be just about over. (It takes a LONG time to cool 5 gallons of fermenting 65 degree wort).

You've made a "steam beer" this time.

 

[cjcalico]

Most likely. I was thinking that would be the case when planning this batch, since I can't truly lager (55 degrees is the coldest I can get my carboy). But a California Common is better than no beer at all I will read Palmer a bit closer next time when he says to cool the starter in stages, not the wort! Thanks again for the help.